kwilco

You are trying to justify victim blaming - this is sad becasue it underlines an unacceptable and blinkered set of values.

how many other offences weren't reported?

Victim blame - QED

I’m very dismayed to see so many comments that are engaging in victim blame – what sort of people post this stuff? Victim blaming in any situation is harmful and wrong, but it is especially damaging in the context of holiday rape cases. Victim blaming in holiday rape cases is especially harmful because it sends a message that women should not be able to enjoy their holidays without fear of violence. It also reinforces the idea that women are responsible for the safety of men’s behaviour, which is simply unfair and untrue. These kind of remarks reinforce harmful stereotypes about victim behaviour. Blaming victims for their assaults reinforces the idea that women are responsible for preventing their own rapes. This can be especially harmful for women who are traveling or living abroad, as they may be more likely to be blamed for their assaults. It also raises the question of why people engage in these statements. “There but for the grace of God….”???? All this perpetuates the cycle of violence. When we blame victims, we send a message that rape is acceptable or inevitable under certain circumstances, They are normalising a culture of violence to women making it more likely that future assaults will occur. These people are attempting to shift focus away from the perpetrator's actions; we are essentially saying that the rapist's actions were not entirely their faut, or that they were in some way justified or we might have succumbed to the same urge. It creates a culture of impunity for rapists. This “blame game” shames and silences victims - When victims are blamed for their assaults, they may feel too ashamed and afraid to come forward. This can prevent them from seeking help and support, and it can also make it more dificult for them to heal from their trauma. We can see from this report that the woman was reluctant to come forward – “the survivor broke her silence, urging caution to lone female travellers.” [Thaiger article]. This is a familiar pattern from previous incidents in Thailand when even the PM got involved with inappropriate comments. In Thailand it also undermines the already fragile justice system. (as seen with the Prayuth comments) When blame is apportioned to victims of assault , it can make it more difficult for them to get justice in the courts. This then strengthens the culture of impunity for rapists, which can only exacerbate the problem of sexual violence in the Kingdom.

You're playing the blame game, so you're basically on a hiding to nothing. It's already been established the lines are incorrectly positioned at that junction and hitting a stationary vehicle legally puts the other drive in the wrong.

re blame game - QED

I think the main problem with people on this site, the public in general and unfortunately the Thai leaders is that they don't see road safety as a public health issue and find it impossible to wrench themselves away from the "blame game". THis is a terribly unproductive way of looking at raod safety - as soon as words like "Tai drivers" 'bad driving" "his fault" come up the process is doomed. Below is a link to an Australia view on the blame game that outlines why it is a waste of time.... https://roadsonline.com.au/stopping-the-blame-game/

You don't see what I see - and we both don't see the woman until she enters the frame. te most salient point ,though is we both see the same video differently, which shows how misleading por unreliable they can be - and I'm trained to look at still and moving images. It's also worth pointing out that the man was stationary when the other bike hit him.

The 5 pillars of road safety are 1. Education 2. Enforcement 3. Engineering 4. Emergency 5. Evaluation In relation to this video how do they apply? Firstly we must acknowledge that the videos doesn’t show the whole picture – particularly the course of the woman when out of camera shot and the angles of visibility. Education Both parties involved clearly have little education on road safety – most governments do this but in Thailand it is almost non-existent, they didn’t even think to wear crash helmets and are using pee-taught driving techniques that are common to Thai road users. The woman clearly had restricted control over her vehicle. This means when human error occurs the results tend to be more serious than they need to be. (my guess is the woman saw the bike come out of the junction and assumed she would pass behind, but the man saw her late and stopped thinking she would go in front – the resulting combination of human errors - split second judgements – meant the collision occurred) Enforcement No -one stopped them from driving without helmets or carry an under-age passenger Engineering means both vehicles and roads – we can’t judge the vehicles but as has been pointed out there are several concerns about the junction – road markings and visibility been the most obvious. Emergency – the response time in the UK for SERIOUS injury is 8 minutes (at present this doesn’t happen very often) BUT in Thailand there are no targets and no uniform emergency services, first responders or paramedics. Evaluation – as can be seen by the nonsense promulgated on this thread alone analysis and metrication of this accident is pure conjecture by amateurs. Will the police do any better - of course not! The result is we learn nothing from this to help prevent future crashes PS – “sneaking round the corner” i=s not a complete description. The man is obviously being cautious because he can’t see properly and the lines of travel is extremely common on Thai roads – if you want to understand this then you need to understand that unlike Europe where road travel was common before the motorcar, in Thailand the main mode of transport was by boat – the traffic sense, rules and behaviour stem largely from that culture hence the line of the male motorcyclist. If you repeat to yourself whilst driving in Thailand “I’m in a boat” “I’m in a boat” you’ll suddenly find you for in with the traffic much better. Of course if you’ve never navigated a boat on a river, it may not be that apparent to you. You have to shed your horse and cart mentality for a boat one.

What I can see is limited - I'm aware of that but It is unfortunate that people grossly over estimate what they are seeing in a video - they are just being naive.

I don't thinl there was any visibility until he got out that far - and that's why he stopped - due to the poor road markings he probably had no idea of his actual position on the junction.

you have the link - read it....

you can't tell from the video how far away to other road user was - I would suggest he expected her to go in front of him - however holding a baby, she was probably restricted in her ability to manoeuvre the bike or even apply the brakes. - during that |second" she would have travelled 20 metres - I suspect he saw her a couple of seconds before that she coud have been anywhere up. to 100 metres away.

I agree - You will also know that the substance used has inferior reflective and friction qualities. You will also know that in UK and EU their are standard formulae for where road markings and signs are stationed - i am of the opinion that there are NO qualified traffic engineers in Thailand - the entire system is haphazard and inconsistent. These things actually do make a difference as you are probably aware that they work "subliminally" and the male motorcyclist may well have positioned himself better before entering the junction. As it was he was able to ignore the stop line and this was probably s=due to its positioning and a lack of visibility at the junction - this is not available from the video. When designing these junctions in UK a lot of research goes into how rto position them and how people observe and adhere to road signs and markings - there is little or no evidence of this on any Thai roads.

OK - here's my answer

...my point is there is no point explaining this to people who can't understand - you are a case in point.

Such a passive aggressive cliche - a prelude to sealioning from somone without a coherent argument - why don't you go and educate yourself and find out rather than spouting nonsense about road safety before you know anything about it?

As someone who worked in a traffic engineers dept in the UK - I can see at a glance huge faults in the junction and also how people regard video - what we need is a series of shots towards th woman motorcyclist for about 200 metres before she comes in frame and a ground level 360 degree scan of the junction in particular the vegetation around it. One also needs to bear in mind the Thai culture of driving like a boat on a river. Most foreigners are totally unaware of this - Thai drivers of course aren't. BTW - the male motorcyclist was stationary when the female and baby collided with him.

It's called confirmation bias.

Yes - I appear to be flogging a dead horse - unfortunately people are too limited to understand. There is stupid, stupider and racist - so how would you expect a rcist to know? One clue is that racists spend a lot of time blaming others for their shortcomings and arguing they aren't racists - QED.

THe reason that so much rubbish is posted on this thread is that people are just incapable of even understanding what thy are looking at.

OK - finally someone who admits that their take on road safety is based on racism

Not only do I look at crash stats, I actually understand them which meand I don't talk meaningless nonsense about "number one in the world". I also don't talk subjectively or racially about driving skills.

Like so many foreigners, you don't understand driving in Thailand or the video. THen try to make up some wierd assumptions as if you are superior to Thai people. You do realise that you can watch the same sort of driving in videos from all over the world including UK?

don't suppose the guy has Dengue by any chance?