BangkokReady

It's unfortunate, but the best "class" to take is one in backing down, tolerating things and letting them go, including someone else being completely out of order and treating you badly.

I disagree. I think it's perfectly possible that the facts as they have been reported are correct. ????‍♂️

Ransome definitely sounds more likely. Then when they saw the relationship angle they thought they could sell that to put people off the scent of Chinese organised crime. I mean, he followed her to Thailand with two friends to ask her out, then when she said no they kidnapped, tortured and killed her?

Just my opinion, but I feel like Thai culture instils a certain amount of entitlement and fragility in some men, which is then combined with racism when it comes to foreign people. And of course the whole "losing face" thing. It seems that a lot of Thai men are raised to pretty much think they can do whatever they want. There is no real punishment at school, cannot fail even if they do no work, parents don't punish them, criticism is a big no-no, and so on. There is also an alarming amount of dependency, where some grown Thai men are happy to rely on their mothers, sisters, wives, etc., to support them financially through handouts. Then you throw in the element of a foreigner and you're bringing in racism, resentment, further feelings of entitlement to money, coupled with the idea that you won't really face any consequences for attacking a non-Thai.

Very likely. Then all his problems were projected onto this "rich farang" who "owes him" because he is in Thailand.

Sounds fairly logical. I get the impression that some Thais resent foreigners for their perceived riches yet don't feel anything about wealthy Thais. Again, it all comes down to racism/prejudice and entitlement.

Possibly the bar girl's role was to befriend the victim and help the perps get her alone somewhere. I don't buy that the bargirl suggested the murder either. "If she doesn't want to date you, perhaps you should torture and kill her!" Unless it really was a kidnapping and after torturing her a little the father said no to a ransomed and she became a loose end? It certainly sounds fishier now than it did before. Maybe a PR coverup.

Possibly the loans have all been for the Thai man. He boasts to his friends that he can get money from the farang whenever he wants. Finally the foreigner says no and the Thai man loses face. This makes the Thai man fly into a rage and murder seems like a perfectly appropriate response for the terrible thing that the foreigner has done to him.

That only works in the movies. In the real world, trying to shoot someone in the arm will only get you killed.

Again, it doesn't look like it. Perhaps the problem comes, with sugar cane and rubber, from the fact that someone is seeing "[crop] pledge" and assuming (or perhaps hoping?) that it is the same as the rice pledge scheme. The two mentioned schemes appear to differ from the rice pledge scheme in a number of ways. The sugar cane scheme appears to be about encouraging farmers to harvest their crop rather than burn it, while the rubber scheme seems to be about guaranteeing prices through subsidisation to prevent farmers from becoming destitute. Both schemes appear to be funded directly from the government and keep the prices around similar levels to what they have been previously. Both the sugar cane and rubber price pledge schemes were also being bought buy the manufacturers and being used. That's quite important to remember. With the rice scheme, rice was guaranteed to be purchased at a price much higher than the market price in order to buy votes. The plan for the funding was that the rice would be stockpiled, the global price would go up, then the rice would be sold for much more than it would have been previously on the global market. The rice scheme went wrong in a number of areas. In many cases the rice was not properly stored and spoiled or went missing. People were importing lower quality rice below the rice scheme pledge rate and then passing that off as Thai rice (this might have been done by some of the people running the thing, can't remember). IIRC, there was a lot of corruption in general around the scheme by those organising it. Many people didn't get paid as promised and when they complained red-shirt roughs went to threaten them. The global shortage was picked up by other countries, so rather than increasing the price it allowed more producers into the market, eventually lowering the price of Thai rice (the damage to the reputation had a similar effect). I'm sure you can see the difference here. Like I said, the kind of thing you might see in a movie. You should look into it. Very interesting.

It doesn't appear to be anything like it, based on one article I just looked at.

"Mai bpen rai" seems to be in short supply these days... ????

Quite. He'll probably regret it when he calms down. I hope so anyway (as it shows he is not a psychopath). I'm curious as to whether some Thai people have a sort of "affluenza", where they cannot control themselves due to never being told "no".

Not cold blood. They were fighting.

Also the victim would be far more vulnerable in Thailand than in her home.

Mere details to a man like Thaksin. He will rule through a proxy as he did before. (Also he'd probably get an ED visa through an agent.)

I heard it differently. I didn't claim that the current lot were any better, just that to suggest that Thaksin coming back signals the return of democracy, law and order, and human rights to Thailand is pretty far-fetched.

Many foreigners, while criticising the current government and singing the praises of Thaksin, will talk about corruption, democracy, law and order, and human rights, all progressive liberal values. But when it comes to the treatment of foreigners, suddenly liberal and progressive ideas (particularly human rights) go out the window, and nationalism and racism is just fine.

Is it something like this:

Thaksin took it to a whole new level. You should look it up. Especially the "rice pledge scheme". It's like something from a Hollywood movie. In most places, people would remember what Thaksin did in the past and would never vote for him again. In Thailand they simply think "he gave me money, I like him". People are free to vote for him, of course, it's just funny when someone says something about democracy, human rights, or law and order when discussing a Thaksin proxy being elected.

My question included whether democracy could return if Thaksin came back into power. Obviously their MO is industrial level vote-buying, gambling with public money to fund the vote-buying, suppression of free-speech, changing laws to allow corruption, and human rights violations. If Thaksin comes into power, it is unlikely that people will be able to vote him out if they do not like what he does.

I love the way many people who claim to be the good guys, and claim to support the moral and good choice of candidate, also gently threaten those who support the "bad guys" or question/doubt the "good guys" with consequences once the "good guys" win. If your team or your candidate is planning any kind of revenge or punishment for anyone who supported the opposing team, you are not the good guys.

Would any of this actually happen under Thaksin, or would it simply be a regime change and business as usual?

Thai apologists have to always believe that Thailand/Thais are the best, always right, and superior to other countries. This leads to some interesting rationalisations. My favourite one recently was that Thais can sense whether a foreigner is good or bad instantly through appearance and body language. So if a Thai is ever unpleasant to you, it is your fault as you are a bad person and the Thai has sensed this with their ESP. It can be amusing, but, as you point out, also sad when topics like this come up.

Seems to be happening a lot lately. Did covid break some cultural taboos in Thailand?