Tofer

3 hours ago, luckyluke said:

After 4 days of negotiation, the E.U. members came agree for the new E.U. budget, thus without the considerable financial input of the U.K..

Where did that come from. We were discussing the plight of Scotland in a state of independence.

Wake up sunshine, it's past lunchtime already.

And "4 days negotiation is a tad disingenuous. They've been arguing for many months over their budget contributions. Or were you asleep through that period as well...

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

 

In a negotiation no one ever capitulate.

 

Some may pretend  that one party concede  over a particular situation,

that may be the case, but one has to know what this party get in lieu of what they give in.

 

 

Often the " lieu of " is of greater substantial importance.

 

There are no evident winners and losers in a negotiation.

 

And that is the truth.

You're still not prepared to state what the UK are supposed to have given in to.

I think you'll find that the EU are, in fact, capitulating on their punishment stance and red lines.

3 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Rubbish.....he happens to have been the winner in two, one horse races....amazing......and that qualifies him to run the country (without being elected by anyone)....the man is a complete charlatan and is now receiving his just desserts

What "one horse races are you referring to?

He doesn't run the country, he is an advisor to the PM. Very loose with your facts aren't you!

3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Ian Blackford is not the government either.

He's an elected representative of the SNP, who govern in the Scottish parliament, or were you not aware of that. 

Quite a bit different to Farage, who holds no elected position whatsoever.

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Of course Farage, conniving with other right wing extremists in Europe is a patriot and stand up guy?

Farage is not the government.

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

We will probably have less taxes when we no longer have to subsidize little england.

Off you go then, let's see how you fare, without all the extra cash you get from England.

4 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Sorry if I don't get it.

That's obvious!

So, I take it from that, you accept my original assertions that the UK have not capitulated or given up any red lines, but you couldn't answer the question in a straight forward manner. Does it hurt to accept the truth?

On 11/13/2020 at 11:00 PM, Surelynot said:

...largely redundant? ...he has achieved.....let me think,,,,,absolutely nothing.....a complete and utter waste of space.

More hot air and unsubstantiated claims. He did, after all, orchestrate Brexit...

On 11/13/2020 at 7:04 PM, david555 said:

Well than you must be deaf and blind as it is on many news sites ....i guess you 52% ones are becoming in denial .....broken dreams maybe the reason ?...

All is normal ....just another U turn from Boris ... but this one a Big one ! ????

How on Earth is Cummings resigning a Boris U-turn - please explain?

On 11/13/2020 at 3:50 PM, david555 said:

Just keeping all the same as a before member ...while becoming a third  country ...????

Keep dreaming and hoping ....but the  endgame is very close now ..????

 

 

Same old, same old - no substance or substantiation in your reply, as expected.

On 11/13/2020 at 2:51 PM, luckyluke said:

You tell me, please.

None!

Now you have a go, as per my original question, which you, not so deftly, sidestepped.

If the EU are so confident of their position, why then are they resorting to all the blackmail and threats, e.g. an energy embargo, and Merkels back door manipulation via the SNP.

On 11/13/2020 at 2:42 PM, Rookiescot said:

Who is going to pick all that fruit and veg in the UK?

You?

You can, to subsidise your income when you have all those extra taxes and services to pay for with your upcoming independence.

I see your prospects are getting a boost with the conniving EU's Merkel colluding with the SNP's traitorous Blackford behind the UK's back. Typical of the dirty tricks brigade, their customary dishonesty and back door tactics.

20 hours ago, david555 said:

 " Mirror mirror on that wall who fits that image most of all..." ????. i would reply ....

a leaver standing /hesitating /hoping / 4 years+ to get those same privilages as a paying member before ...????????????????

It's called a trade deal not privileges! You know those arrangements you have with other independent nations, that the UE are refusing to accede to with the UK. What did I call it before, oh yes, - punishment!

You love to spin it your way don't you.

I'll turn your tactics back on you in this case, list the "special privileges" UK are requesting?

20 hours ago, 7by7 said:

In the 20 years that I have taken an interest in UK immigration, there have been many changes to the Immigration Rules; none of which required any input and certainly no permission from the EU!

 

Like all EU/EEA members we always had complete control over our borders as far as non EU/EEA nationals are concerned and the FoM allows control over some aspects of immigration by EU/EEA nationals as well.

You've just contradicted yourself, considering the topic is the EU....

20 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 The voters didn't exactly rush to the Tories; they only increased their share of the vote by 1.4%; the LibDems increased theirs by 4.2%.

 

Swinson was not trounced; she lost by just 149 votes; to the EUphile SNP! 

 

Not spinning any numbers; they are real and there for all to see and check. Parties supporting at least a second referendum on any WA received over 50% of the popular vote.

 

You can go on deluding yourself for ever, and probably will, but those are the facts for all to see.

You can manipulate statistics until the cows come home, but the fact remains that Boris won with a resounding 80 odd seat majority, hence the reason the job is now getting done.

20 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 I ask again: what is it you don't like about the conduct of the EU? What has the EU done to punish the UK?

 

As I've said; plenty of Brexiteers have made such allegations; yet none have been able to answer those questions. Will you now do so?

 

I agree, the UK will make some sort of success of Brexit; ultimately. But when; and will we ever be economically back to where we were before Brexit?

I think you have a mental block on reality....

20 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 I see that, as with every other Brexiteer who has been asked, you are unable to say what the EU has done to "punish the UK" and "render the WA null and void."

They have colluded with remainer elements in the UK to drag the process out over the last, almost 5 years, costing UK billions in additional contributions.

They have made totally unrealistic demands to maintain control of our laws, governance and access to our territorial waters, contrary to the terms of the WA in their refusal to acknowledge UK's sovereignty.

They have threatened numerous punishments throughout the negotiations, including a blockade of UK's trade with NI, removal of air traffic access to EU, huge trading tariffs on UK exports, blockading ports, etc, etc.

22 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Many will find you are right, as many will find it is the other way around.

Every party is convinced they are right, and the others wrong.

Every party will claim that the others don't want to see the reality.

The EU have agreed to ring-fence police and judicial cooperation from potential sanctions in the event of any future trade disputes with the UK.

What red lines have the UK moved on?

3 hours ago, david555 said:

But E.U. sent you "leavers " packing ...(up to now ).....tick tock 19 November looming

I think you'll find it's the EU that are in London with their begging bowl right now, capitulating on their red lines, whilst UK are standing firm on theirs.

18 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

You were never on the fence. You say you voted remain for purely personal financial reasons. Not because you thought it was right for the country. 

No, I said I DIDN'T vote....

On 11/10/2020 at 9:52 AM, Surelynot said:

I would suspect a lot of the remain-minded commentators on here have done just that....welcome to the LOS.

Don't go down that route, or we'll get all the 'out of the frying pan and into the fire' brigade on here as well.

On 11/9/2020 at 7:13 PM, 7by7 said:

 So what has the EU done to "the EU would do everything they could to punish the UK, and not respect the essence / terms of the WA, thereby rendering it null and void?"

 

If Johnson had the foresight to predict all this, why did he sign it?

To get the bl..dy process moving past the starting post of course.