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Tofer
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Posts posted by Tofer
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2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:
how will this new found sovereignty manifest itself?
11.01pm on 31st December.... ????????
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Sorry guys, I must bow out from this brief interlude in my holiday planning and packing.
Please forgive me if I don't respond to your future comments, I'll be on the road... ???? ????
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4 minutes ago, luckyluke said:
Never understood, and still don't, why there is some kind of defensive attitude when someone is called right-winger, as if that is something terrible.
Well why raise the point of his leanings, as if it's some excuse for his opinion, when it's clearly, in your mind, irrelevant? Why not simply address his statements with an educated counter conviction. ????
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15 hours ago, bannork said:I don't recall the EU ever promising a Canada style deal. The difference in distance from the EU makes it impossible, as they've always said.
A memory of convenience, I suggest!
Try listening carefully to the man at the pointy end of the story....
15 hours ago, bannork said:And what's this Australia style deal? They have no deal with the EU, and what they have, an ex-Aussie premier warned against.
Simply quoted as an example of a country that manages quite well on it, it's called a WTO - look it up.
EX Premier - sour grapes perhaps....
15 hours ago, bannork said:So the UK will give up its sovereignty to the WTO instead of the EU and will cripple its economy by leaving the largest market bloc in the world right on its doorstep!
Nonsense, and yet more scaremongering.... ????
15 hours ago, bannork said:When Liz Truss was asked in Parliament what advantages the new deal with Japan had over the old EU deal, she couldn't name one!
Well, here's one for you - we made it, and whatever the agreement is, it's ours now, not the one we have to abide by in the EU. We'll make our own successes, and probably a few mistakes, but at least they will be ours to establish / amend / rectify and benefit from, without having to consult with 27 other countries.
I would suggest that's a pretty considerable advantage.... ????
15 hours ago, bannork said:And how are the new deals going?
60 so far, probably plus a few more by now, which I would suggest is pretty good going considering the numbers of years it takes the EU to do just one. ????
And before you harp on about them being cut and paste - firstly you don't know the exact terms, and - secondly we were in the EU and they are just as much ours as theirs.
I'll bet she's clocking up some impressive air miles tally.... ????
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15 hours ago, luckyluke said:
That his statement is correct or incorrect, is a matter of opinion.
It sure is - and he's entitled to it...., despite the labels.
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16 hours ago, RuamRudy said:
No, I am highlighting the utter hypocrisy of Brexit, and the cronyism and corruption that is endemic from the PM down, which makes a mockery of this whole concept of 'taking back control', not that any brexiteer has ever been able to define what that actually meant.
How about some facts then, instead of opinionated hyperbole, since that's quite some defamation of the PM.
And if you don't know what "taking back control" means since 4.5 years of debate and explanation which is as clear as the nose on the end of your face, then there's no hope.
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16 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:He’s labeled a far right nationalist because he is s far right nationalist, his views are those of a far right nationalist, heavily politically biased.
So what, is he not entitled to his opinion and views? What do you think this debate is all about, if not political bias from both sides of the argument.....
Despite his slant against VDL and Merkel, you can't dispute his sentiments, only his leanings. That's been the drift in a lot of remainers post, trying to discredit the person, but with no answer to the message.
More pertinent than the spurious news reporters at the Guardian that the remainers frequently quote... Gunner is at least an MEP and an educated professional lawyer.
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24 minutes ago, luckyluke said:
Despite been interesting to know his personal opinion, it is in no way representative.
That is a matter of opinion. Just because you label him a far right nationalist, does not mean his statements are incorrect.
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1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:Drags out rightwing nationalist to support rightwing nationalist views.
Sorry, does the truth hurt your delicate sensibilities.
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On 12/14/2020 at 6:25 PM, bannork said:
But there you go, turkeys voting for Xmas, or New Year in this case
I'd rather that than remain in a field chewing the cud whilst the EU's sheep dogs run us ragged, and then being stripped of my coat.
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On 12/14/2020 at 6:03 PM, bannork said:And of course they were promised how easy it would be, no chance of a no deal.
Only upsides, not the horror show it's turning out to be.
And whose fault is that?
The EU promised a Canada style trade deal if the UK signed up to their prerequisite WA, ensuring they could get their grubby mits on the, all important, money and shackling the NI to their customs union, but instead they regened on that deal along with their undertaking to negotiate in good faith and respect the UK's sovereignty, as German MEP Gunnar Beck pointed out.
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3 hours ago, luckyluke said:To be clear, I don't pretend that voting Leave will afflicted everyone, it may on the contrary, benefit all.
Time will tell.
But should one unconditionally support one's country, when persuaded it took the wrong decisions, which one is convinced, will lead to the affliction of all.
I applaud your pragmatism. It's a pity others cannot have the same balanced attitude.
To your second point, I would answer yes. It is, after all their country, and the democratic result has been decided and, as you say, it may be to the benefit of all.
Quoting a bunch of questionable polls, experts and media statements is a wasted argument, since history has proved many such supposed experts have, time and time again, been proved wrong, particularly economic forecasters who are legendary for their incorrect predictions.
I cannot understand those that insult and decry their fellow countrymen, as a generalisation, simply because they think / believe Brexit will ultimately be beneficial to the country. Optimism is far healthier then pessimism, especially since the future cannot be predicted, as you say, time will tell.....
Instead of rejoicing and patting themselves on the back for their perceived little victories, arguing against the Brexit result / cause, I think it is well past time the remainers accept the situation, because they are not going to change it. They should start showing some support and patriotism toward their country, instead of championing the perceived merits of the EU.
After all, we have left and, I firmly believe, the EU are displaying their true unsavoury colours throughout this process, being vindication in itself.
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On 12/14/2020 at 8:57 PM, Rookiescot said:So yet ANOTHER of Johnsons deadlines came and went and hes still begging the EU for a deal.
All these arguments put forward by Brexiteers are asinine. This talk about respecting UK sovereignty. Hey you guys knew the EU's position before the referendum. They told you all what you would need to give up in order to access the single market as a third country.
Instead you guys chose to believe the meaningless slogans. You chose to believe a man sacked twice for lying. You chose to believe a charlatan like Farage. Or that sleekit Gove.
All those guys care about things like continued access to tax havens not whats in the best interest of the UK.
Then you all doubled down by voting for them again in a general election because they had an oven ready deal.
We are well and truly down the rabbit hole now. Or up a certain creek without a paddle.
Still bluff and bluster will get us through eh? I mean its worked so well so far.
Whine, whine, whine....????
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On 12/14/2020 at 9:59 PM, RayC said:Or in other words: I don't have a consistent argument.
Not at all. You're just not worth arguing with.
There's no convincing people like you, who are determined to see the negative in everything, and consistently quote history to try to prove your opinion. What you don't seem to realise is it is exactly that - HISTORY!
WE'VE LEFT - Get over yourself and start supporting your country for a change.
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4 hours ago, RayC said:No, it's you Brexiters who are relying on your Crystal Balls. You have traded the certainty of the Single Market and Customs union for some cloudy, undefined bright new tomorrow.
Sorry, not this time around. I'm not going to join your remainer pity party diatribe again, for another 100 odd pages of pointless defeatist rhetoric.
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On 12/11/2020 at 4:04 PM, Kwasaki said:
I wouldn't bother with this thread it like a remainers loser thread with comments that will be known until UK is really out.
You're forgetting - they've all got crystal balls... ????
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On 12/2/2020 at 6:05 PM, 7by7 said:
@Tofer, you have now made three posts in which you've tried, and failed, to prove me wrong since you said
That's a matter of your personal misguided opinion, since.....
On 12/2/2020 at 6:05 PM, 7by7 said:I did not deny that EU law was used in Chindamo's AIT hearing. However,
Finally you concede my answer was correct., although it took you an inordinate length of time and convincing for you to comprehend it! You have, in fact, quoted the answer to your original question which, bye the way, shows you contradicting your opening statement...
There is no "however" and hypothesis necessary, the subject ended with the actual court decision being evidence of the EU's control of UK laws, as per your original question. Further pontification is absolutely irrelevant.
On 12/2/2020 at 6:05 PM, 7by7 said:The duty to rescue vessels in peril begins when the vessel in question becomes, as the quote from the article you, yourself posted, says "in need of a rescue." Until the vessel in question indicates such, the French, or British, have no right, let alone duty, to rescue them. The only moral duty they have is to stand by in case the vessels do indicate their need to be rescued.
Make your mind up! Is my quote correct or your spurious interpretation of it, since "in need of rescue" and "indicate their need to be rescued" are 2 completely different situations.
In a dangerously overloaded and unseaworthy dinghy taking on water and at imminent risk of sinking, they are quite obviously "in need of rescue", not a detached escort for 12 nautical miles and however many hours on their journey in freezing cold rough seas and busy shipping lanes, during which they are undoubtedly in serious danger of drowning / hypothermia, not to mention the blatantly criminal activity of people trafficking.
But hey, don't let the death of a few insignificant foreign migrants, that the French are happy to see take the risk to be rid of, bother your pedantic attitude on the subject. I'm sure you sleep nights very well, knowing you are right, as per the letter of the law..... I'll concede that one on the grounds of your apparent questionable morals.
On 12/2/2020 at 6:05 PM, 7by7 said:But to assume, as you did, that once we are free of the shackles of the CCT there will be none, that all future deals the UK makes will be tariff free shows enormous naivety on your part.
There you go again with your creative imagination, and false quotes, since I never said or implied such a statement. Go on, prove me wrong, quote my ACTUAL words.... ????
I rest my case. ????
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22 hours ago, 7by7 said:Quote
Ah, but they are UK trade deals now, independent of the EU's protectionist levies and taxes.
As they are merely transfers of EU trade deals then any levies and taxes contained therein are still extant.
But tell us, what are/were these EU protectionist levies and taxes?
Still waiting for an answer.
Since you are still crowing about your unanswered questions, like a broken record.
Have you never heard of the EU CCT - Common Customs Tariff?
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2 hours ago, 7by7 said:It was not the ECJ which ruled Chindamo could not be deported; it was the UK's Asylum and Immigration tribunal.
Constrained by the EU Freedom of Movement Law.
2 hours ago, 7by7 said:Of course, as the UK is not in the Schengen area, and never has been, an illegal immigrant in France does not have their road to the UK paved!
They are sat in Calais waiting to be trafficked and the French Navy are escorting them, whether you like to admit or not, to the UK side of the English Channel.
2 hours ago, 7by7 said:though not British boats escorting them back to France as you lot like to ignore that!
Evidenced where?
2 hours ago, 7by7 said:You're quick to demand answers from others, but very reluctant to provide them yourself!
And visa versa.
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4 hours ago, david555 said:
It is not crowing it is just mentining a fact .....
Strange you understand sometimes my bad English ....and when the topic is embarrasing ...then a sudden not ....????
End game coming close brexiteers ...getting nervous ...? Your vote won ...so now enjoy it living under it ..???? .
I live in Thailand, so not really my problem, certainly no nerves.
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39 minutes ago, placeholder said:
That wasn't me. But I don't see what jurisdiction has to do with supporting these 2 violators of democratic norms. They're the ones making it an issue.
Who said I support them.
I was simply making a point that the EU couldn't instigate a budget and recovery fund, in reply to Davi555's crowing that the UK was mired in debt.
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20 hours ago, david555 said:
Here read this then you know little bit more about Mr Orban ..... the fact why he is vetoing and E,U. putting him under suspicion as E.U. money is wrong used ...... (seems to happen now in U.K. too with those Covid 19 needs ordered to friends from certain politician(s) ) ???? to deliver,
Pot calling kettle, I believe the EU have not produced any audit of their accounts yet......
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19 hours ago, 7by7 said:
The usual Brexiteer response when challenged on a false statement they have made. You are unable to name a single UK criminal who has been released by the ECJ because, as the link I provided to the role of the ECJ proves, there are none and never have been!
However, you began with
It is not I who is displaying ignorance; it is you.
By 'EUC of human rights' I assume that you mean the European Court of Human Rights. This is not a court of the European Union and never has been. It is the court of the Council of Europe. Brexit will have zero effect on our membership of the CoE.
Winston Churchill first suggested such a council in Parliament in 1943, and again in his Zurich speech of 1946. It was brought into being by the 1949 Treaty of London, the signatories to and so original members being Belgium, Denmark, France, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden and the United Kingdom.The CoE now has 47 member states, including all 27 EU members.
As already said, the ECHR and it's court are a function of the CoE, not the EU.How many UK criminal convictions have been overturned by the ECtHR?
Well, from Full Fact in September 2015.
But that only counts the cases which actually reached the court; most are dismissed before that stage is reached. UK loses 3 out of 4 European human rights cases? More like 1 in 50, actually
Point taken, I confused the 2. Happy now - I was wrong. A phrase we'll never hear from you I suspect.
Having said that, on much the same subject - Deportation of the murderer Learco Chindamo (Italian national) was prevented by the EU Freedom of Movement Law - The Citizens Directive 2004. Leaving the victims wife Frances Lawrence "facing up to a lifetime haunted by her husbands killer because his human rights are considered more important than her own".
Another issue being freedom of movement across borders, which the EU have no effective policy towards illegal entry. The Express wrote, "Brussels paves the illegal immigrants road to UK by ruling they can't be detained" - Ghanaian national Selina Affum using a fake passport attempting to enter the UK could not be locked up or detained pending deportation proceedings as ruled by the ECJ.
So hear we have the EU Court of Justice not preventing, i.e. aiding, the illegal immigrants 'criminal activities', in their attempts to cross illegally to the UK, aside from perpetuating the criminal and life threatening trafficking gangs activities. Not to mention the French's aiding and abetting the channel crossing of illegal migrants by escorting them as far as British waters in the Channel. Now I understand why the UK Home Office is frustrated in their efforts to stop this activity and return illegal migrants, thanks also to the lefty lawyers using these laws to prevent it. Not for much longer thank goodness...
So there you have it, the EU are not so lilly white as you would have us believe.
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19 hours ago, placeholder said:
You don't seem very concerned about the suppression of human rights including democracy in those 2 nations.
I thought that was a consideration for the EU court of Human Rights, not the EUCJ, as you quite rightly previously pointed out when I got the 2 confused.
UK tells EU: back down by Sunday night or we'll walk
in World News
Posted · Edited by Tofer
Look up your word "manifest" and then the answer to your question will be made obvious.... as in "obvious" from the definition of manifest.
Or do you still not yet understand that we are leaving on that date, i.e. finished with the EU membership. What else would you call the UK's status after that timeline, other than a sovereign independent country, or do you need the word sovereign explaining for you as well?
I need to go to bed, that wall I keep banging my head against is giving me a headache.... Goodnight!