Tofer

On 11/17/2020 at 7:06 PM, 7by7 said:

But tell us, if Boris is taking back the fishing rights the British government allowed British fishing fleet owners to sell to fleet owners from other EU coastal states and given those rights to fleets from Iceland, Norway, Greenland and the Faroe Islands; how will that help the UK fishing industry?

The deals we are making now are mutually beneficial, unlike the EU imposed quotas under the CFP which allowed the EU's foreign fishermen to rape our waters to the tune of 85%.

Or do you know something I don't. Feel free to enlighten me, although I doubt I will get anything to substantiate your scaremongering.

21 hours ago, 7by7 said:

According to @Tofer, whatever the agreement over UK/EU fishing rights, the UK fishermen have already been sold out:

Where exactly have I stated that imaginary claim of yours?

21 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

What "ridiculous demands to retain control over UK's governance" would they be, then?

 

What principles in the WA has the EU chosen to disregard? It is Johnson who wants to renege on the WA, not the EU!

You mean you really don't know, where on earth have you been all these years?

The demand for free access to UK's territorial waters, and the so called "level playing field" tying the UK into EU rules and regulations in perpetuity, all under the control of the EUCJ.

The WA stated that the negotiations should be conducted in good faith and with respect for the UK's sovereignty, which they clearly are not!!

We've been over and over these subjects, and you're just balking at the facts.

23 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

 

The UK is already capitulating sorry its negotiating its red lines.

Wait for the final deal to come out where all those red lines got removed and the fishermen got sold out.

Scaremongering again.

Ye of little faith.

Do you relish the prospect of the UK failing, just to prove your point?

A very sad attitude, and rather unpatriotic.

On 11/20/2020 at 6:10 PM, Surelynot said:

£2.9 Billion....wouldn't get of bed for that........

Sorry it appears to be upsetting you that UK are not falling on their a..e, and are successfully moving on with their independent future, contrary to the scarmongers opinions amongst you, that nobody will trade / deal with UK again. It must really stick in your craw.....

On 11/19/2020 at 7:32 AM, Rookiescot said:

 

Absolutely priceless.

 

It is not the first controversial comment made by Lord Frost before becoming chief negotiator, though.

In a pamphlet written just before the referendum, he warned that in trade talks with the EU “it will be Britain that has to make the concessions to get the deal”.

I don't understand what point you are trying to make. It's irrelevant what comments he may have made historically.

The important fact is here and now, the UK's red lines have been stated, and he will not budge.

If the EU insist on maintaining control over the UK, there will be no deal, and hopefully nobody will be fouled by the EU's devious attempts to invoke a "provisional deal". Presumably this is an attempt to cement the Withdrawal Agreement and claim the £39B, which hopefully Frost will make contingent on a final deal being established, ratified by the EU states, and signed.

The EU negotiators had better pull their fingers out, or at the current rate of obstinacy there'll be no allocations left for you to share in our waters, since UK have signed deals on fishing with both Norway and Iceland now.

Still, I suppose Macron would prefer to continue his tantrums, than accept reality and have meaningful discussions on the subject. I was always taught the "I want doesn't get" principle as a child....

2 hours ago, Mavideol said:

Dominic Cummings departure means Boris Johnson 'ready to do a Brexit U-turn'

Do you really believe everything you read in a newspaper or on-line news reports....

2 hours ago, Mavideol said:

Nicola Sturgeon demands U-turn on Boris Johnson's No-Deal Brexit threat

Nice one, that really made my day with a good laugh.

11 hours ago, david555 said:

Whatever Boris do ... Boris is toast .... and by E.U. fact is stated that they do not vote in favor for a deal when that Boris bill is not dropped ... simple fact !

 

Then walk away, as I said before.

Why are the EU still negotiating if it's "a simple fact" that a deal will not be ratified.

12 hours ago, david555 said:

In the beginning they hoped and thought U.K. could change mind

12 hours ago, david555 said:

They gave you all the time of the  world, .... ( too much time i personally find  , but that's only my opinion )

Finally, something we can agree on. Albeit somewhat tangential to my original comments, but I've come to expect that....

12 hours ago, david555 said:

But a leaver  sees for him a better future in his leaving future  , so why oh why  blaming the organization he left that his wishes are not considered....he left anyway

They are not wishes, but sovereign rights by international standards, that the EU refuse to respect.

12 hours ago, david555 said:

Just to remember  some might have forgot , hear the message :

 

 

Irrelevant, if we walk away without a deal...

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

But it can make the E.U. decide not tosign a new one , who could go same way after again to be broken , anyway legally they shows already  serious intentions to break i t as they voted it in H.O.C. already , and it is only because your lordships  rejected it , that it is now in the " twilight zone " ....

 

BTW    No ECJ rejection needed  to refuse  to vote any deal ....

 

The EU can do exactly as they wish, so why don't they.... Why are they still around the negotiating table? After all, it's hardly a new issue that popped up overnight, and BJ has made it abundantly clear the bill won't be dropped.

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

We all get a bit overheated sometimes.

I should take my own advice and step back occasionally. 

Odd thing is away from Brexit we would probably agree on 90% of other matters.

I hope our batting opponents understand, there's no animosity on my part, and I'm sure the same goes for others, simply a frustration that people will not gracefully accept the democratic decision of the nation and pull together to get the best for all concerned.

And, of course, quit with the negative vibes, and have some faith.... ????

25 minutes ago, david555 said:

"Out means Out..." dixit T.May .... so many times repeated out of HOC in E.U. direction ....

True.... Out is Out ???? 

It's a pity your EU parliament don't understand that principle yet.....

22 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

So walk away.....doh!

That's exactly what we're trying to do, but the EU keeps coming back and begging for continued talks, with false promises to respect the UK's sovereignty.

Obviously it's in every ones interest to reach a deal if possible, so it makes sense to listen to what the EU are prepared to capitulate on.

1 hour ago, david555 said:

The UK government is currently facing  legal action from the European Commission over the prime minister's Internal Market Bill, which seeks to use domestic law to overwrite the Brexit withdrawal agreement.

I think you'll find that legal action will be rejected by the EUCJ as it was launched against a breach that has not, even yet, been invoked.

4 hours ago, luckyluke said:

But you are right, I was wrong, i am sorry, it seems to occur more frequently now that i am 72+.

I applaud you for your honesty, no problem we all make mistakes. 

4 hours ago, luckyluke said:

However in my opinion, you could have less rude by pointing that I made a mistake.

 

It was not my intention to give offence, merely trying to inject some humour, regrettably at your expense, to lighten the mood of, what is becoming, a dreary and monotonous exchange of views.

4 hours ago, transam said:

"Probably", more assumptions, the thread of remainer assumptions....????

Just heard a new expression, which I think is quite apt - remainiacs...

4 hours ago, david555 said:

I am very curious why... if U.K. can prosper out of E.U.  ( could be.... i agree ! ...) then why  oh why you still keep sitting on that negotiation table ????as prosperity is winking outside to you ..... that is for me a mystery....( if that prosperity expectation  is true of course )

 

Something is not logic in your claim  ????

It's called a trade deal negotiation, in our mind. Unlike the EU, who think it's an opportunity to brow beat, manipulate, threaten and blackmail the UK into agreeing to stay shackled to the EU.

1 hour ago, david555 said:

Equal to yours for ever complaining !....meaning in fact from you a cry why E.U. does not give your wishes ....as also same old old ????

 

No complaining on that score. I'm more than confident we'll prosper outside of the EU.

I am however, complaining about the EU constantly trying to protract the transition and drag us back into your little club, along with their double dealing behind our governments back. 

2 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Quite confident they, and the rest of the E.U.,  will come to an agreement.

So, the budget has not been agreed in your stated 4 days. Or is that what your crystal balls tell you....