Chomper Higgot

Evil.

Yes you are correct, many, I would say very many have changed their behaviour, some have gone as far as to change their thinking too. But very many have not, very many people still carry with them the racism of the society they grew up in. We frequently see examples in posts on this forum. Very few British people are openly racist. (I’ve underlined that so as to ensure my views are not misrepresented). However, far too many give scant attention to how racism occurs and goes un challenged, or is used as a tool in political and public policy campaigns. On top of that there still remain overtly racist political groups that have significant public support.

Please address this question:

Making sweeping generalizations about a nationality - Is certainly, stereotyping that group, so it fits right into the mindset of racism. The portrayal of non-white races as jolly smiling people, is absolutely a historical racist trope. All peoples have ‘smiles’, defining a racial group as ‘smiling’ is reductionist and reductionism is definitely a tool of racism.

Good for you, but you have no logical argument to preclude the racism that existed during the lives of people engaged in this discussion. It is a prime example of the background racism that influenced the minds of very many people living, and importantly voting, in the UK today. Racist tropes have been used in UK political campaigns within the last decade, they played particularly well to the demographic that grew up with overt racism in British society, of the kind you feel it unnecessary to discus.

OK let’s accept at face value your opinion is that particular list is nonsense. Do you agree there are statements and ‘go to arguments’ that are characteristic of racists? Or is it your contention that nobody can conclude another person is a racist on the basis of the statements and arguments they put forward?

No. I’m talking about people who where born and grew up in the period after the late forties, through to the late 80s, as I clearly explained. I’m pleased to see you accept racist attitudes were the norm back then. Now all you have to do is grasp the idea that people who grew up at a time when racist attitudes where the norm in the society they were growing up with will have to some varying degree taken those racist attitudes on board. We frequently see examples in n discussions in this forum. “The terrible dark old days of the National Front and British Movement and Pakistani bashing are long gone and its new generation now ” Yes I absolutely agree, terrible dark days but I do not agree ‘long gone’, they are in the living memory of members of this forum and we see far too many examples on this forum that those racist attitudes have left their mark. Yes I agree, the younger generalizations were brought up in a multi cultural society and not exposed to the racism of the ‘recent past’. Have you noticed, the people who often express racist views on this forum also frequently express derogatory views on the young. There has been a generational change, but the older generation are still around, some still expressing racist views, a minority expressing vile racist views.

Well yes, the idiot Budget has been ditched.

I look forward to discussing Labour when Labour are the topic of the thread.

Perhaps they feel offensive remarks on a public forum should be challenged.

This thread is focussed on how racism is woven into the fabric of the UK and many of the respondents are British or have experienced life in the UK. Anyone who grew up in the UK in the period from the late forties through to the late 80s will have been introduced to racist views and thinking. Racism in the UK over that period was openly and often casually expressed. Its a period during which overtly racist political organizations formed and were openly aligned with violent racist gangs. Skinheads ‘bashing’ Pakistanis, racist violence at public events, racist chants at league football games, bananas thrown at Black sportsmen, Asian businesses targeted by racist gangs. These are historical facts. But there was also the less extreme but insidious casual racism, racist jokes told and laughed at, not just privately but in media too. Racism was for decades an overt background in British society. It is facile to deny this racism was real and that it has a lingering presence in the minds of people who grew up in the UK through those years. So yes, everyone has some elements of racism in their thinking, some recognize this and deal with it, some deny it but it’s still there, and some nurture it, looking for any and every excuse to vent their hate on foreigners, migrants, refugees, asylum seekers . Refer the pejorative views towards these groups by a small number of members in any and all threads that in anyway address these subjects. And if a thread isn’t about foreigners, migrants, refugees, asylum seekers, this same small numbers will frequently take the discussion off topic in an attempt to make it so.

Because you were in face to face discussions with people who knew you, you knew them and you all therefore had an idea of what each other’s personality was, truthfulness and importantly through social connection had a vested interest in maintaining your credibility. I too remember such conversations, most people spoke honestly but there were also a small few who would exaggerate, make claims and statements that could not possibly be true. Others in the conversation could see this because they had firsthand knowledge of the person, and of course responded accordingly, often very bluntly. You are making a false equivalence, this is not a face to face conversation between people who know each other.

Labour are not the topic of discussion. This is a Tory mess. Let’s stick with that reality.

So 10,000 EU citizens leave the NHS to return home as a direct result of Brexit. Where 10,000 EU citizens leaving the NHS per year? Of course not. Like the idiot budget sending the economy into crisis, the cause and effect is plain, just some wish to stick their head in the sand and deny reality.

I don’t accept any claimed personal experiences that pop up in internet discussions in a timely manner to support the previously expressed views of the person suddenly remembering their experiences, especially the details of what would have to be complex personal circumstances related in past discussions. I file them under, unsubstantiated.

The NHS lost over 10,000 Doctors, nurses and other health professionals who returned to Europe as a direct result of Brexit. Are you claiming these people couldn’t meet the post Brexit criteria to stay? Perhaps you can fortuitously recall a discussion with one of them to help your case.

Has it occurred to you racism might exist on a spectrum from holding some racist views to being an outright raging racist?

Who added the word ‘Nazis’?

She appointed Kwarteng because they both intimately share an attachment to an extreme rightwing economic dogma. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Unchained

No he’s behaving like a supporter of this Government, nothing to do with the ‘left’. Otherwise you are correct.

You don’t have to, Labour didn’t cause this mess and they are not the subject of the discussion (chiefly because they didn’t cause this mess).

Corbyn is not the subject of this discussion, nor is any ‘choice’ you imagine I might have made.

Imagining what else might cause the problems that this Government has caused isn’t going to get this Government and supporters of this Government off the hook. You are only offering imagined scenarios as whataboutary. And once again, Labour are not the subject of this discussion.

Oddly, the BOE and major banks were all predicting an 18 month recession, and that was before Kwarteng opened his mouth and let the idiocy out. Mind, if it’s ‘Growth, Growth, Growth’ Tess is. Promising by time of the next election (2.5% to be precise), she could try something that would absolutely produce growth. Join a free trade group with the UK’s largest trading partners, who just happen to be geographically next door.

Deliberate actions are only a mistake after they are ‘found out by others’ or ‘exposed as the kind of idiocy that the Kamikaze Budget patently was’. Your fixation on Labour is once again noted, but Labour are not, try as you may, the subject of this discussion.