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vinny41
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Posts posted by vinny41
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7 minutes ago, mommysboy said:
To quote: 'For the people who dreamed up Brexit, its patriotism was always a lie, an appeal to a national myth of struggle and victory – Churchill’s “sunlit uplands,” the defeat of the Spanish Armada, the Empire. What they wanted was a low-tax, offshore Singapore, conveniently ignoring the real British economy.'
And one that doesn't include Scotland or N.Ireland imo.
Tyoical of an article from someone that works for George Osbourne and the Evening Standard a newspaper that they struggle to giveway free
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6 minutes ago, oilinki said:
Both of the extremist sides are Eurosceptic. That's nothing new. Both extreme left and alt right are made of similar kind of people, who are just against everything. Not the sharpest ones. They are not the people who are developing new. They are just like most of the Russian people who unfortunately has been formed to become easily manipulated after decades of suppression.
Would you like to see your people to be free innovative minds? I think that would be good for Russia. There are loads of brilliant minds, who could take the world by storm, if only given the possibility to be part of the global community. Too bad Putin doesn't like the idea as it would weaken his position.
Carry on with the Russia comments I don't mind your just making a complete fool of yourself to everyone else that views these forums I could respond in kind with such comments as Does you mother know your using the computer but I wouldn't lower myself to your standards. I think your the type of person that wants to control the content and outcome on this topic and anyone that posts information you don't agree with you try to discredit If you don't like my posts you can add me to your ignore list but we both know you wouldn't because you still want to control the content of this topic
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9 minutes ago, oilinki said:
I did mention Leningrad forces. Tradidional leftists, who are now pushing for oliargh or alt-right or neo liberal agendas.
I can understand people without morals, being paid by the billionaires, supporting their agendas. I don't understand the people who want to live their lives, supporting their agendas.
But no mention of the Left Alliance (Finland) The Left Alliance has a strongly Eurosceptic wing
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10 minutes ago, oilinki said:
Fron wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Weidel
Alt right? In each of our European free societies, we have both alt-right as well as communist parties. These both parties are made of same kind of people. People who are unhappy of their lives and wish to blame eveybody else of their troubles, instead of looking at them selves, what could be the problem.
These are the people Leningrad forces are looking for. Angry people are easily manipulated to do the dirty work. They are the people who are most likely to buy the snake oil.
You forget to include the Lefties in your list
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Brexit Could Open the Door to Russia Joining the EU
Britain’s exit from the European Union opens the door to a possible Russian entry—a “Rentry” or perhaps “Russ-in”—into the (now) 27-member club. While it could take years, even decades, before the Russian Federation could meet all the criteria under the so-called Copenhagen Criteria to join the EU as a full member, it is far more likely to occur now with the U.K. out of the picture.
Tempting Russia with EU membership would do far more to elicit better behavior from Moscow than the weak economic sanctions the EU currently imposes on it. Russia’s entry would not only be a boon for trade in the region, but it would also finally make Europe a true superpower with the ability to take on China and the U.S. both economically and militarily.
At first blush, it might crazy to think “Rentry” could happen. After all, tensions between Russia and the EU are arguably at their highest level since the end of the Cold War. Last week, amid Russia’s continued aggression in the Ukraine, the EU extended its long-running banking sanctions against Moscow for another year.
Retaliatory Russian sanctions against EU foodstuffs will remain in effect as well, costing the EU agri-food sector billions of euros in lost revenue. Meanwhile, net foreign direct investment flows between Russia and Europe are now at their lowest level in nearly two decades, going from $80 billion in 2013 to almost nil last year.
And if the economic tension wasn’t bad enough, the Baltic states and Poland, which are all EU (and NATO) members, have increased their defense spending considerably following Russia’s invasion of the Crimea two years ago. They are increasingly concerned that Vladimir Putin, Russia’s long-standing leader, might try to reenact the opening scene of World War II and invade their territories. This might be paranoid, but it’s not totally off-base.
Still, despite the increased tensions and simultaneous crash in energy prices, Russia remains the EU’s fourth-largest trading partner and the EU continues to be Russia’s biggest trading partner; total trade between the two was nearly €209 billion in 2015, according to figures from the European Commission.
If energy prices rebound, which will happen sooner or later, those trade figures will explode. Back in 2012, before energy prices crashed and before sanctions were imposed, annual trade between the two equaled €338 billion, making Russia the EU’s third largest trading partner behind the U.S. and China. If there was truly free trade and open borders between Russia and Europe, that number could easily double or triple in just a few years.
It will be hard for the sides to continue dismissing each other given their close geographical proximity and historical ties. Indeed, half of the European Union was either directly or indirectly ruled from Moscow at some point in the last century. As such, much of the infrastructure needed for trade—such as pipelines, roads, and railroads—are already connected. Today, Russia supplies nearly all he natural gas for many of the eastern members of the EU, as well as the bulk of Germany’s needs. As Germany continues to retire its nuclear and coal power plants, this link will only grow more important.
Another Brexit Vote Could Actually HappenAbout 4 million people have petitioned for a second referendum.Play VideoYOU MIGHT LIKE5 COOL CAMPGROUNDS FOR ULTIMATE GLAMPINGAMAZON COULD BE IN TROUBLE WITH THE EUThe number one issue hurting the relationship between the EU and Russia today is the Ukraine controversy. Russia’s invasion and subsequent annexation of Crimea was truly shocking and inexcusable. But while much of Europe disapproved of Russia’s aggression, few countries—especially those in the east that are reliant on Russian gas—were willing to jeopardize their close trading relationship.
Leading the charge for sanctions and a more confrontational relationship with Russia was the EU member that traded the least with Russia: the United Kingdom. The U.K. was the only EU signatory of the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, which obligated the U.K., the U.S., and Russia to give security assurances protecting the territorial integrity and political independence of Ukraine. In exchange, Ukraine agreed to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and hand over its legacy Soviet nuclear missiles to Russia, where they could be better monitored and contained.
When Russia forcibly annexed the Crimea from Ukraine in 2014, the U.K. government was obligated to respond, amid what was clearly a violation of Ukraine’s territorial integrity (by a signatory of the Budapest Memorandum, no less). Britain was unwilling to go to war with the Russians over Crimea, however, so it instead pushed its fellow EU members to join it in levying economic sanctions against Russia. The rest of the EU, which remain far more reliant on Russian trade than the U.K., ultimately agreed to minor economic sanctions in a bid to support the U.K. and express displeasure over Russia’s aggression.
While most of the sanctions were economically insignificant, they did have a big negative impact on Russian public sentiment toward the EU. When recently asked if they would want their country to join the EU, 67% of Russians surveyed said they were against it, with only 18% in favor of it occurring anytime in the next 20 years, according to DW-Trend, a monthly survey of Russians carried out for the German media company Deutsche Welle.
But public opinion, on this issue in particular, is fickle. Back in December 2010, some 54% of the Russian public said they were in favor of their country joining the EU within the next 20 years—with a third believing it could happen within the next five years. Clearly that didn’t come to pass, but the survey shows that Russians don’t have a fundamental problem with joining the EU—they are just upset with the EU at the moment.
This row between Russia and the EU is fleeting and Russia knows it is time to make amends. “Sooner or later common sense will prevail and sanctions will be lifted,” Dmitry Medvedev, Russia’s Prime Minister and former President saidearlier this year. “But for this to happen we need to make steps toward each other.”
With Brexit now really happening, the EU and Russia have an opportunity to mend their relationship and seek peaceful co-existence through diplomatic and positive reinforcement, instead of through sanctions and posturing.
“Without the U.K. in the EU, there will no longer be anyone so zealously standing up for sanctions against us,” Sergei Sobyanin, the influential mayor of Moscow, tweeted last week after Brexit was confirmed.
Public opinion toward the EU has been soured by Russian propaganda, but that can be quickly turned. The EU can now choose to offer Russia the opportunity to join, pacifying them through economic prosperity instead of via sanctions. It is a page ripped right out of President Obama’s playbook in his recent decision to drop the U.S. embargo on Cuba.
It is no coincidence, then, that European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker showed up at the St Petersburg International Economic Forum before the Brexit vote talking about “building bridges” between the EU and Russia. It was the first time since the Ukraine crisis broke out that Western officials have attended the event, which President Putin likes to think of as Russia’s Davos.
Nor was it a coincidence that Mr. Putin declared last week that America was the world’s superpower, downplaying Russia’s significance on the world stage. It was almost as if he was saying that Russia needed to join with others if they, or anyone else, wanted to counter the heft of the U.S. economic and military machine.
Now, a country doesn’t become a member of the EU overnight. It is a process that can take years—even decades—to complete. As of now, Russia would miserably fail a number of the 35 tests necessary to attain EU membership. But it wouldn’t fail on all of them, and if Russia starts the process with some wins, there would be pressure on the Kremlin to clean up its act so that Russia could finally reach EU membership.
It took Russia 18 years to negotiate its entry into the World Trade Organization—by far the longest negotiation in the WTO’s history. President Putin cancelled membership talks a few times, insulted the organization and its leaders often, and balked at making the necessary reforms for entry. But in the end he acquiesced and the two sides worked out a compromise, as joining the WTO was seen as vital for the country’s future growth and prosperity.
“Rentry” would probably require a similarly painful process but, in time, the two sides could come to an agreement. Russian EU membership would not only serve to revitalize the EU in what is a dark time for the club, it would also help modernize Russia and curb its abuse toward itself and others. There really is no downside here. It will just take patience and open minds in both camps to see this through.
http://fortune.com/2016/06/28/russia-brexit-eu-membership/
Looks Like Herr Juncker has already kicked off the process
http://fortune.com/2016/06/28/russia-brexit-eu-membership/
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Speech on Brexit by AfD leader Alice Weidel in German parliament (Bundestag), English subtitles
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Scots pay £64 net each to the EU but English pay £140 each
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3 minutes ago, oilinki said:
Funny that you have still not been able to hide that you are copying text from your Leningrad database.
I suppose you are eager to dismantle the EU-27. I'm afraid for you, it's not going to happen. We all know how fruitless it is to be Russia-1, against the rest of the World-200. Yes, Russia has some good friends like Venezuela and Cuba, but not many more. Those Russian friends, with their Putin style of regiments are not doing that well at all.
So yes, you can try to get countries to go against each other, by their "Football" teams. It's the whole different game, where we should play by the Ruskie rules.
Sorry, we do love our western freedoms much too much to play the game the way Russian oligarchs have accustomed to win the game. We simply say no. It's that simple.
As stated your the only person on this forum that keeps mentioning Leningrad or Russia all that does is show everyone on here that your argument against my posts Uk are weak so your only way forward is to mention Russia
Have you checked out the Stop possible second referendum on E.U. membership petition
Looks like the Germans are not willing to pay any extra into the EU Budget so your countryman are going to have to open their pockets and pay a substantial amount of extra money for EU membership
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1 minute ago, mommysboy said:
Anyway, here's another one for you to knock:
That poll and the failings of that poll have already been rip to shreds in previous posts If you do a search you will find the posts
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4 minutes ago, mommysboy said:
Same argument applies to the Tories in reverse.
No with the Tories they know they will get annihilated in a General Election if they don't implement the results of the 2016 EU Referendum
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7 minutes ago, mommysboy said:
I bet you'd believe it if it gave you the answer you wanted to hear.
You Wrong as i stated before i am of the opinion opinion polls are pointless and a waste of space
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2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:
It's not really a vote on the deal as such: it amounts to a Brexit Referendum.
'Tory, Labour and SNP members say they will table a “killer” amendment in favour of a public vote. The amendment, if passed, will state that acceptance of the prime minister’s deal must be dependent on a public vote taking place beforehand, in which people would be offered the choice of leaving on the terms of that deal, or staying in the EU.'
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/27/jeremy-corbyn-second-brexit-vote-commons-amendment
Labour wouldn't commit to a 2nd Referendum they know there chances of getting elected would be zero as a large number of the 5.1 million Labour Leave voters will take their votes elsewhere
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3 minutes ago, mommysboy said:
I can't help notice that you decry every opinion poll!
Yes you are correct But more so on the articles that don't provide links to the questions ask and numbers of people and if the people asked were mixture of people on the street ( some who may not have internet access or if the survey is just completed online) but i am of the opinion opinion poll are pointless and a waste of space as they always provide the postive outcome of who ever is paying for the poll,
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31 minutes ago, mommysboy said:
You wouldn't believe it. Maybe, all of us believe what we want to believe, which is why it's pointless trying to persuade otherwise. Is it just Brexit? Personally, I don't think so- we have our dreams! For instance, all it will take for the Tories to win the next election will be to announce a grand new era of house ownership and they'll be back in.
Your correct about not believing this article, The Independent produces this articles on a regular basis but they never provide links to backup their claims. In this article they mention Ipsos MORI and King’s College London now if you view the websites of
IPOS MORI and King’s College London there no mention of the claims that the Independent are stating
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/publics-brexit-predictions
https://www.kcl.ac.uk/sspp/policy-institute/publications/brexit-predictions.pdf
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1 minute ago, mommysboy said:
You're not quite getting the notion: he is saying Scotland should stay where it is (in the UK), and England should devolve from the UK.
Your not getting it read this "A senior EU official has cast doubt over claims that an independent Scotlandcould automatically join the EU or inherit the UK’s membership after Brexit."
The Uk signed the treaty with the EU it will be the UK that leaves the EU if Scotland has a new independence referendum and leaves the UK they will join the EU assestion process including the 35 chapters of the acquis There are areas in those chapters that the Scottish Goverment have no processes currently in place as those areas are currently managed by London
So after new independence referendum has taken place and assume the vote is to leave the UK they will then need to replicate all the areas of governance handled by westminster once they have the areas up and running then they can start the EU Assestion Process
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57 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:
Not really hiding seeing as it was openly discussed in parliament and you can't really complain about not knowing seeing as it was made clear in the pamphlets distributed to every single UK household. Read the vote no pamphlet if you dont believe me.
The parliament passes all EU laws, we have our representation in parliament, at least we did before people started throwing away our democratic power to UKIP Mep's who do not even bother to show up at work.
I have no idea what you could be talking about there, but the decision are all democratic and include elected British politicians votes.
No, you have no need to and you also have no fear of that happening considering keeping the pound was an exception that Thatcher negotiated from the beginning.
It is not possible to claim benefits as an immigrant to the UK before having worked and paid national insurance.
No you weren't, read the pamphlets.
The budgets are all online, it is very complicated but that does not make them closed, they are transparent to those able to decipher them. And what do you mean about living within their means?
Hilarious, all indicators show the EU heading into an economic Golden age.
We wouldn't expect you to respect someone like Churchill, call his idea a monster why don't you.
In 1975 There was only one pamphlet sent to every household ( remember in 1975 there was no internet at that time)
The pamphlet was called Britain's new deal in Europe
Here it is 9 pages and very little detail
https://digital.library.lse.ac.uk/objects/lse:fug282yox/read/single#page/1/mode/1up
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31 minutes ago, tebee said:
Not everyone agrees with the author of this document its-time-bury-brexit-jon-danzig
Did it escape your notice that the British people NEVER gave their informed consent to join a european super-state. Never agreed to joining the ERM, the Euro, Maastricht, an EU Army or the majority of organisations designed to erode the concept of nation states. The symbols, constitutions, mechanisms and trappings of an EU state are alien to our way of thinking and are what we rejected. Even those of us that remember the previous time we were allowed to vote can remember how our politicians lied about it only being a "common market". The more our supposed european "allies" try to tell us we must not and cannot leave, the messier and more painful it will be - for both parties
My issue is this,Initially I was split, then I decided stay was best. However we lost, so we should respect the wishes of the People of the UK. It was mentioned later in the thread about having an Election every time a Manifesto is broken totally ridiculous!!.....Elections are not fought on just one Manifesto, but this was a simple question with 2 possible answers...IN or OUT. the country has spoken, lets get on with it. However those who 'Lost' with their vote, are trying to wreck every single brexit policy/ proposal being put forward. Thats why we are where we are. Lets hope Europe stick to their guns and give us no deal, its what some people deserve! And its better than staying. Once we leave, I believe others will follow and in 10 - 15yrs time, Europe will be much different.
Marie-Caroline FROCHOT what a pathetic argument. The turnout for the referendum was higher than most elections especially than those for elections of MEPs. By your logic, no recent elections would be valid because you lump in the non-voters to whichever side you deem convenient. That means any minority opposition can claim victory. Your logic invalidates most democracy which is at least consistent with how the European Commission would prefer to do business. The UK has chosen its way. What worries the Eurocrats is that unless our way can be seen (made) to fail, others may follow.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/its-time-bury-brexit-jon-danzig
And comments from someone that receives huge funding through the
Jean Monnet Chair in European Economic Integration, Lead - Jean Monnet Network 'EU, Africa and China in the Global Age'
Jean Monnet Chair Funding
How open-minded are our universities? As an MP provokes a storm just for ASKING what students are being taught about Brexit, disturbing questions about propaganda in the lecture halls emerge
- Paul Scully MP castigated for asking universities what they're teaching on Brexit
- It has led to the true extent of anti-Brexit bias among academics being revealed
- Since the referendum, lecturers have been caught doling out pro-EU pamphlets
- The master of a Cambridge college used a graduation event to rail against Brexit
- https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5018251/Remainer-universities-Anti-Brexit-bias-laid-bare.html
More disturbing questions about British universities and Brexit as students tell of a graduation ceremony warning about leaving and a master urging students to campaign for another referendum
- The master of Downing College urged students to campaign for new referendum
- Vote Leave posters were put up University of Warwick but they were pulled down
- The revelations come after the furore over Tory whip Chris Heaton-Harris's letter
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5022387/Our-Remainer-Universities-two.html
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12 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:
will look when my net connection improves, right now it is worse than bad
I assume eu's "work-list" is based on the candidate already being considered as a sovereign state
the treaty of treaties lists/describes some of the fairly objective criteria for being a sovereign state
Here a list of the Chapters some of these chapters
Chapters of the acquis
Chapter 1: Free movement of goods
Chapter 2: Freedom of movement for workers
Chapter 3: Right of establishment and freedom to provide services
Chapter 4: Free movement of capital
Chapter 5: Public procurement
Chapter 6: Company law
Chapter 7: Intellectual property law
Chapter 8: Competition policy
Chapter 9: Financial services
Chapter 10: Information society and media
Chapter 11: Agriculture and rural development
Chapter 12: Food safety, veterinary and phytosanitary policy
Chapter 13: Fisheries
Chapter 14: Transport policy
Chapter 15: Energy
Chapter 16: Taxation
Chapter 17: Economic and monetary policy
Chapter 18: Statistics
Chapter 19: Social policy and employment
Chapter 20: Enterprise and industrial policy
Chapter 21: Trans-European networks
Chapter 22: Regional policy and coordination of structural instruments
Chapter 23: Judiciary and fundamental rights
Chapter 24: Justice, freedom and security
Chapter 25: Science and research
Chapter 26: Education and culture
Chapter 27: Environment
Chapter 28: Consumer and health protection
Chapter 29: Customs union
Chapter 30: External relations
Chapter 31: Foreign, security and defence policy
Chapter 32: Financial control
Chapter 33: Financial and budgetary provisions
Chapter 34 - Institutions
Chapter 35 - Other issues
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27 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:
first step would likely be to ensure that Scotland satisfies the usual criteria for being considered a sovereign state
eg some kind of police/armed forces so that claimed borders can be protected/defended
eg borders would normally have to be agreed with neighbours, also sea bordes
and a host of other cr.
plenty to do
Here is the EU Accession Process
There are 35 Chapters of the acquis/ negotiating chapters that need to be opened completed signed off
https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/sites/near/files/pdf/publication/factsheet_en.pdf
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5 minutes ago, kwilco said:
Brexit jinhoists are paparticularly fond of erroneous references to famous historical characters....
Let's set a few facts straight about remainer Churchill.
irrelevant Churchill died 24th January 1965 as he is dead he wasn't eligible to vote
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6 minutes ago, tebee said:
I know, what I'm suggesting is that the UK leaves Scotland, therefore letting Scotland remain in it's prefered state of remaining as an EU member And being independent from the UK .
The UK ends up out of the EU as the Brexiters prefer - what is wrong with this solution?
In the article link above the EU stated
A senior EU official has cast doubt over claims that an independent Scotlandcould automatically join the EU or inherit the UK’s membership after Brexit.
The position in Scotland hasn’t changed,” Minor said. There is a clear process for any applicant country under article 49 of the European treaties. “That would also apply to Scotland. If Scotland became an independent country I think article 49 is the normal starting point,” she said.
All the legal documents would have to be re-written and agreed
Its Unlikely Scotland on its own would pass all the tests required by the EU for membership
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6 minutes ago, tebee said:
Since Scotland voted to stay in the EU and one of the reasons the Scottish independence referendum was lost was that it would lose it's EU membership if it left the EU, why don't we have another referendum there now about independence on the basis that Sotland retains the UK's EU membership and the rest of the UK leaves Scotland and the EU?
Idea has already been rejected by the EU
Independent Scotland 'would have to apply for EU membership'
European commission reasserts that Scotland would have no automatic right to being part of EU if it voted to leave UK
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15 minutes ago, kwilco said:
This was known before the referendum; Brexiteers have deliberately put companies like this out of business
Project fear AGAIN? British haulier claims Brexit is 'economic SUICIDE' for United Kingdom
BREXIT will push European businesses away from the United Kingdom because of increased customs inspections on European Union lorries, British haulier John Shirley claimed.
He was entitled to a single vote in the 2016 EU referendum same as every other eligible electors
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1 hour ago, oilinki said:
This topic has been going on for ages. We have heard reasonings from many sides of the topic.
What we don't hear is why.
Why people think brexit is a brilliant thing and why people think it's disastrous for Britain as well ass disastrous for EU.
@billd766 is one of brexiteer thinkers I personally respect. Therefore I wish to understand why he is so keen to break UK from EU.
What is the reason you want UK to be separated from the rest of us so badly, that it doesn't matter what happens afterwards?
What should EU done better to avoid brexit from happening?
What should we do to make sure that after brexit, we don't make the same mistake again?
They should have limited the freedom of movement to the EU Grouping
The EU14 grouping includes citizens of Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Republic of Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain and Sweden. Premier League
The EU8 grouping includes citizens of Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungry, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia. League One
The EU2 grouping includes citizens of Bulgaria and Romania League two
and like the Football tables these countries could move up or down depending on performance , gdp salaries Would Greece and Italy still remain in the Premier League or would they be demoted to League One-
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UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll
in World News
Posted
And course if anyone was to ask you to produce evidence of Russian minded trolls on this forum you can't , other than you want to control the narrative of this topic to suit your own agenda as stated with you its all about Control Control and Control