21 hours ago, flinc2020 said:

"It's all over, go back to the way things were last year."

Yes, I agree.

6 hours ago, Puccini said:

Coronavirus: Sweden's Tegnell admits too many died

03 June 2020

 

 

Sweden's controversial decision not to impose a strict lockdown in response to the Covid-19 pandemic led to too many deaths, the man behind the policy, Anders Tegnell, has acknowledged.

Sweden has seen a far higher mortality rate than its nearest neighbours and its nationals are being barred from crossing their borders.

Dr Tegnell told Swedish radio more should have been done early on.

 

Read more: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52903717

This was discussed two pages above, also including the parts missing in the BBC report. Anders Tegnell is obviously one of the few who is able to review and learn. 

1 hour ago, NCC1701A said:

so does each girl have her own hand sanitizer? 

 

or just one time at the door? 

I recommend to add some stronger drinks for her for some mouth and interior disinfection ????

2 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Sue that restaurant that made the photo for defamation that’s the right way of how to handle this.

Yes, the restaurant owner, the poor guy, he‘s doomed.

Bad news, sad news, so many jobs, so many families depend on the tourists there. It hits the poorest the hardest.

7 hours ago, ThLT said:

So lockdowns and pandemic measures work, when implemented correctly?

That's exactly the comparison we have to make—countries that did these correctly (such as South Korea) and countries that didn't (such as the US and the UK).

Actually, South Korea is more of an example that a draconian lockdown is not needed.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/we-never-considered-a-full-lockdown-south-korea-s-health-minister-on-the-country-s-fight-against-coronavirus/ar-BB13rX2d

I think we talk about different lockdowns. For me a lockdown includes forcing the population to stay at home, locking them in, for you apparently not?

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

I particularly liked his Harlem Shuffle "There was no lockdown" "The lockdown was put in only on 23 March", "How can it be due to lockdown".... so funny. 

 

But then this is the same guy who argued the world will end because there's no immunity to the virus.

 

Wrong yet again.

 

Yeah, he mixes facts willy nilly, creating half truths. The point is probably just enjoying bickering. I stopped responding to him a while ago, it’s just a waste of time. There are enough others here which are able to listen and to raise interesting points, giving me food for thought.

29 minutes ago, ThLT said:

Well, if there are lockdowns, this helps to not have health systems be overburdened. Had there been no lockdowns at all, many countries would probably have had overburdened hospitals/systems.

You can't ask me to prove something based on something that didn't happen.
 

Thanks, that's the point, it "didn't happen".

The big dying, the millions of dead bodies piled up, the exponential growth, the overloaded ICUs, the lack of ventilators, it "didn't happen", no matter what the countries did, lockdown or not.

Instead, the infections start, go up, reach a peak, and decline again. With or without lockdown, the curves are quite similar everywhere.

6 minutes ago, ThLT said:

This is false. Any epidemiologist, doctor or nurse can tell you an overburdened health system results in more deaths. 

And where was the health system really overburdened?

Yeah, Italy, every other seasonal flu does that there, but where else?

Sweden? No. Germany? No. France? No. Japan? No. South Korea? No. Cambodia? No. Thailand? No. UK? No. USA? No. Not even in New York, the quickly prepared additional ICU and ventilator capacities did not even get used.

5 minutes ago, ThLT said:

Like which countries (with data)? Please don't name islands in the middle of nowhere (being an island is basically itself a lockdown), or countries that barely have a health system to reliably report cases/deaths.
 

I posted a lot about them here already, with sources and graphs and all. Feel free to check my posts if you want to know details. I like especially the examples of Taiwan, Cambodia and Japan.

2 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/mysterious-company-s-coronavirus-papers-top-medical-journals-may-be-unraveling

So the study which caused the examination of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine as possible Covid-19 treatments to get stopped everywhere, that study is flawed, fake, baseless, wrong?
 

1 hour ago, impulse said:

Measures to flatten the curve might have an effect, but a lockdown only pushes the severe cases into the future —it will not prevent them. Admittedly, countries have managed to slow down spread so as not to overburden health-care systems, ...

That's a key point so many seem not to understand ????

On 6/2/2020 at 4:30 PM, Phil McCaverty said:

Do you think 377,000 deaths is insignificant?

It is not very nice from you to impute that I would think deaths would be insignificant.

You could have noticed from my post that I think that every death matters, every single one, including the ones nobody cares about, by focussing on one problem only, and making the others, such as cancer, even worse.

On 6/1/2020 at 4:53 PM, Phil McCaverty said:

Yes a bit of a coddled egg there. They will open all borders on July 1st but are likely to impose terms for entry that make it near impossible for foreigners to get in.

 

 

Unless they are from China 

in my humble opionion you should disclose if this is your private hobby or a scientific study, and if so, for whom you are doing this, who funds it.

4 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

I see the   foolish claim in respect to the Swedish economy. Perhaps we are to be taken  for fools who do not understand what Q1 means. For the ignorant, it refers to January, February and March. As of march 31, much of North America and Europe was only starting lockdowns towards the end of March. For example As of 31 march, only 32 of 50 US states were in "lockdown";  The UK lockdown phased in March 23-30.  Why would the  Q1 results  be negative if the Covid19 economic crisis was only starting?

 

It is the Q2 numbers that matter. To help the intellectually challenged, Q2 will include April, May and June and it will come as no surprise that financial results will be grim, even in Sweden.

 

Apparently we are to believe that all will be well. Someone had better inform 

Sweden's finance minister Magdalena Andersson because her most recent statement is 

that the Swedish economy will shrink 7% this year.

At the  same time, Sweden's debt office posted its highest  borrowing level with an increase to cover emergency spending amid record job losses.

One cannot expect an export driven economy to post   good results in Q2 when its largest exporters have cut jobs and its exports have disappeared.

 

It is hard to believe that such foolish people circulate, but they exist as  some of the posts demonstrate. The sad aspect is that they become very angry and aggressive when  people do not accept their incorrect conclusions and mangled  interpretations.

You forget Q3 and Q4. In case you haven't heard yet, Q3 is July, August, September and Q4 is October, November and December. The lockdown effects will be even more clear looking at them.

Nevertheless, and as said here already many times, a heavily export oriented country such as Sweden will suffer heavily from the economic meltdown in the lockdown countries. Nobody is denying that. However you use that now to claim that the no lockdown policy of Sweden has no positive effect on Sweden's economy, and that is simply wrong.

Sweden's exports will of course suffer from the economic lockdown disaster in the lockdown countries, but at least the countless small businesses serving the local population, which are not locked down there, are still alive and well, and that has a very positive effect on Sweden's economy, minimizing the damage, minimizing the suffering.