cdemundo

I need to correct my own post here, "Vaccine effectiveness is the percent reduction in the frequency of illness among vaccinated people compared to people not vaccinated." So 49% effectiveness means that vaccinated people had 49% reduction of risk versus unvaccinated. So risk is cut approximately in half with this level of effectiveness.

Long term effects are possible but unlikely. The current vaccines have similar ingredients to the vaccines of the past. Past vaccine side effects have been apparent in 4 to 6 weeks. As to mRNA vaccines both the mRNA (disintegrates in days) and the spike proteins (proteins in the body break down in 2 to 3 weeks) so they cannot cause long term side effects. People often bring up drugs that have had long term side effects. The drugs that have had long term side effects have been drugs taken daily or more frequently and for a long period of time. So those drugs were in the body in substantial concentrations constantly for a long period of time. The vaccines are one or two (or possibly three) doses several weeks apart. They are in the body briefly for short intervals. Even flat out poisons require a sufficient dose to do their damage. You might say, "Even still.." but why in this case? This kind of info would reassure people about the risks in most cases.

"I don't see how they can get dater unless they vaccinate children. " You are right they gotta do a trial with kids.

Additionally, it is not true that 49% effectiveness means that 51% of vaccinated people were symptomatic. It means that vaccinated people had 51% reduction of risk versus unvaccinated. "Vaccine effectiveness is the percent reduction in the frequency of illness among vaccinated people compared to people not vaccinated." https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectivenessqa.htm Efficacy Effectiveness are apparently confusing as lots of people misinterpret them. Docs and the media could do a better job of explaining. But a little thinking might lead a person to question is there any group where 50% of the group gets infected?

There is nothing arrogant about saying I understand high school biology. Again your paragraphs above are hopelessly meddled. You confound the virus and viral proteins and the method by which the cells are induced to produce the spike protein. You either have not read or have not understood the information I referred you to. Again " once armed with the knowledge of how to produce the viral protein" the virus has not been armed with knowledge. No matter how hard you rage you are still completely wrong. "The mRNA vaccine leads the cells of the body to produce the viral protein, it's a spike protein, but it's very much the viral protein" again you misunderstand it is "a viral protein" and it can't cause the disease. "So the question is not how long do mRNA and spike proteins last in the body." That is exactly the question; the mRNA is needed to make the spike protein. The cell doesn't "know how to produce the viral protein", The mRNA is necessary to cause the cell to make the spike protein. I am not insulting you, you are repeatedly displaying the incredible misunderstanding and anthropomorphism ("our body's cells themselves are fooled ... once armed with the knowledge of how to produce the viral protein"). I am not arrogant at all, i said from the beginning if you took a bit of time you would understand these basics. it is not extraordinary that anyone understands these basics, what is extraordinary is how badly you have misunderstood this. And also it is extraordinary how hard you rage. $14.99 on Amazon: Biology Made Easy: An Illustrated Study Guide For Students To Easily Learn Cellular & Molecular Biology https://www.amazon.com/s?k=idiots+guide+to+biology&ref=nb_sb_noss_1 This is just what you need.

"It is my opinion that the earth is flat." Problem is the earth isn't flat. Some things are a matter of opinion, some are a matter of fact. Problem seems to come when people mix them up together.

Right the VAERS are probably over reported since no verification or filter of any kind so if you take only the fully vaccinated in the USA, so this is conservative 169,592,873 and use all the reported adverse effects with no filtering, so also conservative 14,500 14500/169,592,873 x 100 gives the percent of reported adverse affects so simply the number of adverse affects that came after the vaccine that people reported. Some will of course be unrelated but no matter include them all. 14500/169,592,873 x 100 = 0.00854988758%

From your own quote: "(Individuals who get an mRNA vaccine are not exposed to the virus, nor can they become infected by the vaccine.)" You also seem to misunderstand "the viral protein" is a portion of the virus that is called "the spike" protein. When they say "the viral protein" they mean a part of the virus, if they meant the virus, they would say "the virus". with respect to mRNA 5 years from now: https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/where-mrna-vaccines-and-spike-proteins-go "How long do mRNA and spike proteins last in the body?" "For COVID-19 vaccines, all of the approved vaccines so far used the spike protein. The spike protein is located on the outside of a coronavirus"... "How long mRNA lasts in the body The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines work by introducing mRNA (messenger RNA) into your muscle cells. The cells make copies of the spike protein and the mRNA is quickly degraded (within a few days). The cell breaks the mRNA up into small harmless pieces. mRNA is very fragile; that's one reason why mRNA vaccines must be so carefully preserved at very low temperatures." "How long spike proteins last in the body The Infectious Disease Society of America (IDSA) estimates that the spike proteins that were generated by COVID-19 vaccines last up to a few weeks, like other proteins made by the body. The immune system quickly identifies, attacks and destroys the spike proteins because it recognizes them as not part of you. " Nothing in your quotes contradicts what I posted. The information I just posted backs up what is said before. more: https://www.idsociety.org/covid-19-real-time-learning-network/vaccines/vaccines-information--faq/ from The Infectious Diseases Society of America website Q:How long does the spike protein made by the body (generated by the COVID-19 vaccines) last in the body? A: The protein lasts the same amount of time as other proteins made by the body. The exact time is not known, but it is estimated to be a few weeks. The Infectious Diseases Society of America website has a QandA section that will answer a lot of questions on these subjects. As the saying goes "I can explain it to you, I can't understand it for you."

OK so we can agree that natural immunity after an infection by COVID may be higher than the immunity from a vaccination. So what is your point? Are you saying that the way to avoid getting COVID is by getting COVID? That seems to be the implication.

My response is the same, most people use the phrase "natural immunity" to their immunity to a first infection with COVID. This study is comparing the immunity of people who have been previously infect to vaccinated people. You are using the term "natural immunity" to apply to people who have been previously infected. In the large type quote you include, the study uses the term after making clear that the study was concerning the natural immune response of people having previously contracted the virus.

I believe that you are not being clear about what the study you quote is saying about natural immunity. If you want to be clear and say that you are referring to the natural immunity as a result of having had COVID, you can find studies that indicate that. I think when most people use the phrase "natural immunity" they are talking about their immunity to an initial infection by COVID.

Same study, same misrepresentation by you. From the link you provided: "(1)SARS-CoV-2-naïve individuals who received a two-dose regimen of the BioNTech/Pfizer mRNA BNT162b2 vaccine, (2)previously infected individuals who have not been vaccinated, and (3)previously infected and single dose vaccinated individuals. " Apparently you don't even read the evidence you refer to.

My response was full of information, he has already replied saying the something he said before. Again, you think you are clever asking questions like I have some obligation to you. The mRNA vaccines themselves have been administered hundreds of millions of times. Plenty of evidence for their safety.

You don't understand what you quoted.

The point is that this study was quoted as evidence that natural immunity is stronger than immunity due to vaccination. It is not talking about natural immunity from taking Vitamin D supplements and eating kale, it is talking about immunity in individuals that have been previously infected. So quoting this study as was done was misleading, whether intentional or not.

I do not have extensive knowledge, i have a very basic understanding of the way mRNA vaccines work. The person I responded to had less than zero since he had a misunderstanding. Both of you questions are irrelevant. There have been more than 382,000,000 doses administered in the US alone, much more information has been gathered from those cases than 30,000 people in a Phase 3 trial. If you have a point to try and make, then make it. Like most anti-vaxxers your passion exceeds both your level of understanding and your level of basic courtesy.

One important point that you fail to mention: the subjects belonged to 3 groups: (1)SARS-CoV-2-naïve individuals who received a two-dose regimen of the BioNTech/Pfizer mRNA BNT162b2 vaccine, (2)previously infected individuals who have not been vaccinated, and (3)previously infected and single dose vaccinated individuals. The natural immunity discussed is the immunity of persons who have been previously been infected by COVID. Not the natural immunity of the uninfected population. So are you advocating going out and getting infected to boost your immune system?

Yes, I do have this knowledge. So should you if you took the time to look into it. Also, if you took the barest minimum of effort to inform yourself you would not have used the polio vaccine example in your discussion of virus risks. None of the current vaccines use inactive COVID virus, so the polio vaccine example has no relevance. "The mRNA vaccines actually fool the body to produce the viral protein itself." That is an adorable little "just so" story, now tell the one about the Elephant's Child. The mRNA vaccines introduce an mRNA sequence that codes for the spike protein. The body recognizes that protein as foreign and an immune response is elicited, among other responses, antibodies to the spike protein are produced. Your imprecise misunderstanding ("to produce the viral protein itself") is possibly the source of your confusion. The spike protein is the surface structure on the Corona virus that binds to human cells. Spike proteins are the structures that are sticking out all over the surface of the virus. Spike proteins do not and cannot cause disease. And has been discussed ad nauseam in this forum and elsewhere, mRNA is a very fragile structure, it decays into its component parts very rapidly. Hence, the refrigeration requirements prior to use. At body temperature the mRNA disintegrates rapidly. Here are two detailed explanations of how the mRNA vaccines work. They don't include cute little anthropomorphisms for children like "the vaccines actually fool the body". https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/moderna-covid-19-vaccine.html You have a gross misunderstanding of the topics you are holding forth on. You really should make an effort to inform yourself so you can calm your unfounded fears.

The point is that medications that caused side effects were taken daily or multiple times daily and over weeks, months, in some cases years. So the ingredients of the medication were in the body constantly over a long period of time. That is not the case with the COVID vaccines that are injected once, twice or even three times. They are not in the body for anywhere near that much time.

"A lot of people" very subjective. Out of 5.79 billion doses administered world wide. Posters here are referring to less that 1% chance of dying from COVID like that's pretty good, vaccine deaths are a lot lower than that. 1% of 5.79 billion is 57,900,000, that would definitely be a lot of people dying. One is enough if its you but... It's a matter of figuring out the relative risk. Getting antibodies by contracting COVID is certainly a lot riskier that getting a vaccine.

Wow, man I never thought of that. You think the manly lucky2008 is looking for bromance? Wrong number lucky. My sexual orientation is a private matter but it does not include you.

You are so full of assumptions. I don't have access to either of those cuz I don't have cable. I have a computer with access to many info sources . Youtube I use to watch music videos. I can watch ABC, NBC, CBS, Sky News, Newsy, NHK, and Aljzeera English. I think that ABC, NBC, CBS, Sky News, are what your people call MSM so obviously they are no good. What are you talking about "stand up for yourself"? For a guy who is afraid of needles you sure are obsessed with coming across as a manly tough guy. But it really just comes across as hostile.

Interesting article on development of mRNA vaccines: The tangled history of mRNA vaccines from Nature https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w?utm_source=Nature+Briefing&utm_campaign=41794890cb-briefing-dy-20210914&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c9dfd39373-41794890cb-44956685

Good luck.

I thought people of faith get on their knees to pray?