way2muchcoffee

before the gov took office, I predicted that Abhisit will get burned.

maybe that was the point all along - get rid of an up and comer?

Hard to imagine. My mind isn't so cynical to think this up. But now that you mention it....

in my opinion they dont give a crap about students... i know i dont...

i think teaching is the only occupation available to foreigners without trade. Even if uve got trade skills, locals would hire locals who can speak thai plus who r happy with 10k salary right?

i know some successful teachers, but in my opinion even with 60k salary, it aint enuff. they would be able to happily live their retirement in thailand, but they wouldnt be able to keep 800K or 400K in their bank account to keep extending their visa till they die. there is not such thing as permanent residency in thailand.

or if they r lucky, they got their parents will or sumthing....

If you don't care about your students you should give up teaching. Seriously. That is disgraceful. And please do not malign all foreign teachers by lumping them into your particular unwanted and unneeded group.

Thaicom director should turn it on, and ignore the govt. Shutting down the media is what started this little skirmish, and instigated the situation. Looking like this was a bad move by the govt.

I will agree if the government concedes Thaicom to the redshirts, and if PTV comes back online. All signals are pointing to this at the moment but it hasn't been confirmed.

On the other hand I believe that the rhetoric from the stages is criminal and that the government were correct to shut down PTV as it was broadcasting violence-filled hate speeches.

And it looks like the government did concede. Disappointing. They should not make strong public statements like they did with regards to Thaicom and then not be willing to back them up. They should have set up 20,000+ security forces there and ordered them to hold their ground.

Unfortunately, the army didn't back it up and actually stop them from getting through.

Good news seems the rank/file in the army do not have the heart for this. Democracy is at work.

Ermmmmm in any "democratic" country the army and police would disperse these terrorists with any possible means ... so I do not know what your point is ...

W

In a "democratic" Country, we do not use the military forces against part of the citizens. Special police forces are created for this specific role. Army is symbol of Unity and reserved against exterior threats.

today is a typical (attempted) misuse of military Forces.

Not true, in the US at least. The National Guard are armed forces and they are routinely called out whenever a state of emergency is called. Typically this will be for riots or natural disasters.

Thaicom director should turn it on, and ignore the govt. Shutting down the media is what started this little skirmish, and instigated the situation. Looking like this was a bad move by the govt.

I will agree if the government concedes Thaicom to the redshirts, and if PTV comes back online. All signals are pointing to this at the moment but it hasn't been confirmed.

On the other hand I believe that the rhetoric from the stages is criminal and that the government were correct to shut down PTV as it was broadcasting violence-filled hate speeches.

Tone it down a notch. Anybody can place blame. It takes a real man and leader to look for positive solutions.

As Abhisit has been trying to do for weeks, despite the redshirt leaders walking away from the negotiating table, and despite the redshirt leaders and their followers committing one illegal act after the next with increasing violence.

The real problem for Issan is their reliance on agriculture almost exclusively, primarily rice. There is no year-long work in rice farming. There are few industries or factories because of the geographical location. It is too far from major ports to make the construction of factories in the region cost-effective.

Agricultural products compete on the world market. With the economic problems facing the western world they are less interested in consuming jasmine rice at double the price of rice from other nearby regions. Thai rice is not competitive and it is becoming less so as new strains are introduced in other countries.

This situation is exacerbated by the fact the modern farming methods are being developed in other nearby countries. Implementing modern farming methods in Issan will destroy the lives of millions of farmers as what would ordinarily take a family a month of work can be done in an afternoon with a tractor.

The model just isn't sustainable. The people in the Issan region need to branch out and find other forms of income. The need to be encouraged and given financial incentives to open small businesses. Or failing that, they need to move to the city if they want more money. That's the bottom line. The rural lifestyle is necessarily synonymous with lower incomes, and it will only get worse over time

Abhisit made his stance clear last night. No violence. Repelling an attack on vital telecommunications infrastructure evidently required some limited force. I think it is far too early to make judgments on what is really going on out there and what may be going on behind the scenes. In order not to look the fool I will reserve judgment until more information is available.

It its amazing how far Abhisit seems to be willing to go to try implement the constitutional amendment to insure the re-installment of and incumbent government.

What's next nationalize all the police and demand they go to Bangkok and mobilize all the military and move them to Bangkok.

Bangkok is really going to be a crowded place. Abhisit might have to go home to make room for the police an soldiers in the barracks.

It's amazing that you already know why it's necessary to amend the constitution before elections and yet still try to find a way to twist the facts.

issues far broader than Thaksin - don't fool yourself

But the solutions put forth by the redshirts all point to Thaksin. That is the problem.

Well done to him and well done to any foreigners joining the rallies.

It would appear many people on here support the Burmese Junta and say "thats their problem, keep out" and they support Mugabe in Zimbabwe and say "thats their problem, keep out".

Its rather lucky that foreigners invaded Nazi Germany or else that would never have ended.

Any human being has a right to be interested in the well-being and the freedom of another, regardless of race and religion.

He was expressing his opinion, which he is entitled to do. There is no law against it.

You live in the world, borders and governments are not recognized by Mother Nature or God - they are an invention of people who wish to control others.

Well done, and hopefully more foreigners will join the reds, it makes it much more difficult for the government to use violence !!!! And thats a good thing.

So why aren't you there now? You clearly support their endeavors with every ounce of your being. Therefore it is unconscionable that you are not out there with them right now. The only possible excuses are the (1) you aren't in country, or (2) cowardice.

I don't think anybody needs to be sacrificed.

All that is needed is for elections to be held and see who the people want, not who the military elite want.

Afterall thats what democracy is all about , isn't it?

If Abhisit capitulates without winning significant concessions from redshirt leaders then his career in politics is over. Moreover his party will suffer tremendously. I'm sure his colleagues and coalition partners will be very displeased. His coalition does represent the majority of the people of Thailand.

Further, the elections would be a sham falling directly on the heels of these demonstrations. This would give rise to further protests.

A compromise needs to be worked out. Face needs to be preserved. The reds can't go back empty-handed, but neither can the Democrats and the coalition partners.

It really is up the the redshirts to make the next move. They can continue to push the 15 days or they can work out a deal. They left the negotiating table without bothering to negotiate. They need to return.

The State of Emergency and the shut down of Red TV discard his credibilty.

Do you support the playing of a doctored tape with Abhisit's voice calling for violence to protesters being played on stage and broadcast nationwide?

Do you support the call for guerrilla warfare to be played onstage and broadcast nationwide?

Do you support the issuance of death threats to be played onstage and broadcast nationwide?

If the redshirts were not lying on stage their signal would not have been cut. It's pretty straightforward. It is the redshirt leaders whose credibility has been damaged because they will use all means to achieve their ends even if it results in the deaths of their followers.

If you read my posts you will see that I try to be positive and try to support a third way: because the conflict will have to end through a discussion involving all parties. Next week four former PMs, all experienced, with different sensitivity but wise men, will meet and I expect as many others, that this Group of ex PM will make a proposal for getting out from this mess.

Already we can detect some trends: Yes, there will be some elections, yes there must be some discussions on the Charter and yes some immediate social measures have to be implemented.

Abhisit balance is not negative: he is smart, look like an honest guy (However he has been obliged to "cover' some guys in his government not so honest).

Some good decisions for the poors are on the way, but not enough, insufficient to cool the situation and obviously too late to be listened to due to situation evolution (too late, insuficient)

As PM, he has not succeeded to control his coalition and get the authority to implement what he want to do: this is something that is suggested by some of his supporters. So.... in summary: In the good direction but Insufficient

IMHO,

If we anticipate what will happen: at the end, one Government will have to organise the transition towards the General Elections. By implementing the State of Emergency, by shutting down the Red TV, Abhisit is loosing ground in the possibility to lead the transition: he has to be replaced because he is too much marked as a leader of a party, from now he cannot pretend to be the head of a Government of Unity....This is the Conclusion which will become more and more obvious.

It is even the interest of Abhisit to step down as soon as possible, being involved to a minimum in the coming events in order to be in the best position during the next election campaign which is unavoidable now in few months.

So you're saying that Abhisit, arguably the most honorable man in this whole mess, needs to fall on his sword for the sake of the nation?

I've considered that. He might just be strong and principled enough to make that decision. It may well come to that.

Of course it should be noted that the red leaders are criminals. The behavior they have engaged in and the statements they publicly made would land them serious charges in any of our home countries. It is a shame that a man of the caliber of Abhisit should have to be sacrificed for the likes of Jatuporn or Thaksin.

I am changing my position. I think everyone needs to slow way down. Take some deep breaths. High level talks need to take place immediately, behind closed doors. The most powerful leaders in the nation need to be there. This needs to get worked out before things go seriously sideways.

Amnesties need to be discussed. Moving the demonstrations to a suitable location should be carried out. Talks must focus on whatever it really is that the various parties involved are interested in. Real negotiations need to take place and a genuine compromise must be reached. Face needs to be preserved for all sides.

It isn't about patience anymore. This thing could blow up in everyone's faces at the slightest provocation. It is critical for the future of Thailand that this crisis be resolved peacefully.

Then taking your argument of an employee and his directors how can you explain that when dems MP were caught buying votes or other irregularities the entire dem party was not banned ?

Also how can you accept that as a result of such ruling banning a party in power , the ppl need not to be consulted in a general election ?

Or do you you consider them as culprits of such act as well ?

Do you actually read the posts as they are addressed to you?

It has been stated several times, if an executive member of an party is caught buying votes etc - in any way breaking the election laws - then the whole party will be deemed to have gained from it and it will be dissolved. Only the executives and the offending persons will be banned from their positions of MP however.

If a non-executive member is caught it is not proven that the inner circle knew about it and as such it is not considered proven that it was something the party sanctioned and knowingly gained from, hence only the offending member is banned.

Easy as pie, no?

Am quoting

Using your logic, would be similar to saying, if a company employee starts bribing officials and directors turn a blind eye, then the company should not fear any consequence, as only the employee is responsible. In fact the entire basis of corporate law looks at the relationship of directors and whether they should have known (not if they actually knew) regarding actions of staff. The employee, the directors and the company are responsible

So now if a non executive member of a party commits bribes then it should be assumed that the party management knows about it , if they dont know is irrelevant they still are responsible since they are the executives , the management .

You cant have it both ways .

Again I repeat why when dems are caught bribing regardless on whether they are executive or not , the management is not held reponsible and the party banned ?

Its easy as pie . Do you understand my question ?

And dont tell me because the law says so .

Since you already know the answer to your question why ask it?

The law is the law. It can be changed, but there are no double standards according to this particular law as it is written. The law was applied to the Dems. The law was applied to the PTP. Their cases were not the same and therefore the consequences were not the same. Had the Democrat leadership been filmed engaging in electoral fraud then there would not be a Democrat Party today. They would be banned.

Thai teachers start at about 7k typically. By the end of their careers they can be earning as much as about 75k per month, but most only make it to around 35-45k. Thai teachers get benefits such as long-term low-interest government loans to buy houses or personal vehicles. Thai teachers get a pension when they retire. Thai teachers have support networks of friends and family. Thai teachers are rarely fired.

Foreign teachers typically start at around 30-45k, depending on location, the type of school, and the subject they teach. Once their salary gets too high many schools will drop them. No school pays for experience so they will start at the entry-level salary at any new position. Foreign teachers are often terminated for no reason. Foreign teachers pay considerably more for most things in Thailand compared with Thais, like rent, comfort foods, entertainment, holidays, etc. Foreign teachers pay huge amounts of their income if they want to visit their families in their home countries. Foreigners also have additional visa costs/hassles that must be sorted. Also there is the opportunity cost to a foreigner by taking such a low wage when they could be earning much more in their home countries. The cost most foreigners paid for their university education are many times more than the cost of a Thai university education. Foreigners get no retirement benefits while working in Thai schools, but some get medical through Thai social security.

Law stopping corruptions are a good thing

But if you want to cure a flu you dont kill the patient .

And when you want to cure a cancer you cut it out.

I would put the ones that want patience as red supporters ie happy with the current stand off and sympathetic to the reds despite the emergency decree

That would be a mistake in many cases. I support the redshirt footsoldiers. My wife and family are from the NE. I support them financially as necessary to help them make ends meet. That wouldn't be necessary if they were given a fairer shake in life. But, sadly, they are abused by this society each and every day. I understand their plight and I am surrounded by their angst. They have every reason and every right to be angry,

Nevertheless, I do not support the redshirt leaders and I cannot therefore support these demonstrations.

I voted patience.

I thought Abhisit was a good honest and democratic man...looks like I'm wrong. Any democratic nation allows freedom of speech, all the red tv is doing is broadcasting live from the red stadium, never said anything about the reliability of the speech being broadcast. If you shut down every biased tv station there would be no TV.

But if what is being said on the red stage is criminal then the government has every right to cut the signal. Death threats are crimes. That's how it works. Stay in the bounds of the law and there are no problems.

This also goes for the present rally site. If the reds would have stayed at the bridge and not broke into parliament then there would not have been an SOE.

The State of Emergency and the shut down of Red TV discard his credibilty.

Do you support the playing of a doctored tape with Abhisit's voice calling for violence to protesters being played on stage and broadcast nationwide?

Do you support the call for guerrilla warfare to be played onstage and broadcast nationwide?

Do you support the issuance of death threats to be played onstage and broadcast nationwide?

If the redshirts were not lying on stage their signal would not have been cut. It's pretty straightforward. It is the redshirt leaders whose credibility has been damaged because they will use all means to achieve their ends even if it results in the deaths of their followers.

The question of who foreigners support and why is actually quite an interesting one though this thread so far is sadly short on perception and fair mindedness (and dare I say it intelligence).For those who are prepared to transcend cliched stereotypes and consider some home truths, not always comfortable for either side of the divide,Danny Unger's article in Asia Times is compelling.It certainly made me think hard.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LD07Ae01.html

Outstanding article jayboy and it sure rings true for me. I think it is true that most of us DO wish Thailand moves toward a liberal democracy. I think it's also true that most of us are continually running all the different "scenarios" that might unfold through our minds. Some of us even imagine that if these scenarios unfold in a specific order then the things we're arguing over today won't matter at all tomorrow. I think no matter how vociferous any of us may be, none of us can be 100% certain of the political ground we're standing on.

Yes. Agreed. The article was certainly thought-provoking. An interesting read no matter what your political persuasion or your position on these ongoing events in Thailand.

Then taking your argument of an employee and his directors how can you explain that when dems MP were caught buying votes or other irregularities the entire dem party was not banned ?

Also how can you accept that as a result of such ruling banning a party in power , the ppl need not to be consulted in a general election ?

Or do you you consider them as culprits of such act as well ?

Do you actually read the posts as they are addressed to you?

It has been stated several times, if an executive member of an party is caught buying votes etc - in any way breaking the election laws - then the whole party will be deemed to have gained from it and it will be dissolved. Only the executives and the offending persons will be banned from their positions of MP however.

If a non-executive member is caught it is not proven that the inner circle knew about it and as such it is not considered proven that it was something the party sanctioned and knowingly gained from, hence only the offending member is banned.

Easy as pie, no?

It should be easy as pie to understand. But that wouldn't fit with their rhetoric. So you shall be ignored and the same lies will be repeated, no matter if they already know the truth. The truth has no part in their game plan.

The gap between the poor and the rich is bigger than in China, bigger than in India. Abhsit should be ashamed of that.

Really? Tell me what Abhisit has done to create the conditions of poverty in the NE during his 16 month tenure. You must also be asserting that there was no poverty prior to Abhisit if you wish to blame him. Or perhaps you'd like to blame him for the collapse of the banking industry in the US and other western nations as well.

I expect lies from you, and the other Yellow shirt posters on here.

Please quote a lie that I have made. Truly. If you can find one I will publicly apologize forthwith and retract that statement immediately.

Don't you realize that people's lives are at stake here?

Do you not feel any moral duty to find the truth and stick to it?

Opinion is fine, everyone is entitled to their own.

But facts are facts. To blatantly invent facts to support a point is both dangerous and disgraceful.

They were all caught buying votes.

Its only the PPP who got convicted of the offence.

All the others had the evidence thrown away it seems.

Why would the coup appointed EC and the EE want to find only PPP guilty ? Any reason ?

TiT

Levelhead. I expect lies from you so that's okay. You just go on ahead. I suggest you read up on what precisely the law is, which non-executive representatives were banned, and which executives caused their parties to be banned. The truth is out there and it is only a couple of mouse clicks away. But I'll lay some serious odds on your not doing that. I suspect you'd rather continue posting your inaccurate and uninformed drivel.