TroubleandGrumpy

Read it again slowly. Malaysia does not hit the money that retired Expats bring into Malaysia - they extended that deal for another 10 years earlier this year.

Yes indeed - Thailand is not Robinson Crusoe in that regard. Played golf last year with a couple late last year who were in the process of moving from Spain to Portugal (used to live here and visiting old friends) because Spain decided to change their Immigration Rules from this year, and also dropped many of the benefits of the Visa that they had enjoyed for a few years. Portugal responded by saying to Brits and Others - 'you and your money are more than welcome here' - so they started the process to move. They are AOK with moving - they have a place in England the kids are currently looking after - they smelt of money and moving was clearly easy for them.

Never having transferred 20 Million Baht before myself - so like 99% of Expats I have no idea.

I know one and he says there are others there, and they aint coming back - Thailand blew it and now it is too late. His point is why come back and only have the same sort of sheitee happen in 2 years. Life is too short. No 90 days in Philippines, no Tm30, can leave and come back anytime, and they say annual renewal is a doddle. And much more Philipinos speak English than Thais. Has a bit of a Yankie feel to it too - like Chiang Mai and somewhat Udon Thani.

Ask your tax lawyer - 20 Million Baht (450 GPB) to move around and you dont have one? Sure mate.

You the third person to say about the same thing on this forum - The Philippines actually welcomes Expats and makes them feel welcome. I knew two blokes who moved there many years ago and they warned me Thailand would be 'trouble' - they were right. Thailand is overall better than Philippines, especially for us that have a wife and house here, but as somewhere to spend most of the year and visit Thailand for under 180 days, it is one of the best options in SEAsia. Malaysia is also good to Expats - but they set the bar a bit higher. Cheapest is probably Vietnam - but only if they ever go ahead with their Retirement Visa (Golden Deal or whatever).

Right now it seems we have 2 years to wait and see if/when a global tax system starts, and what it means for Expats. Until then, anything about what they will do or will not do is speculation - OK to plan ahead, but yet again, wait for the details in the land of ever changing hubs and harebrained ideas.

That is their plan - as stated by a senior TRD Official in a recent youtube video. But will they get it completed and implemented by then - who knows. Clearly their decision in late 2023 to tax 2024 remittances with 3 months notice, was a stupid and (as usual here) ill conceived and thought out. A huge amount of remittances did not happen last year and earlier this one - so now they are offering a 2 years 'freebie' because they desperately need the money coming into the country. Jan 1 2027 start of the tax year is their plan for a global system - but that is a long way away time in Thai politics and I doubt they will get it finished in time. If you have money that you can bring into Thailand this year and next year, then (assuming this applies to all Tax Residents) then make hay while the sun shines IMO (once passed). It might still be shining in 2027 and beyond - who knows. Hopefully, they will also recognise that people looking to bring their money back into Thailand, want a far better exchange rate than at present - therefore maybe they will 'encourage' the Baht to drop in value. Who knows what these clowns will do - but I will wait for the Baht to go down before bringing any larger amounts into Thailand in 2025 and 2026 - if/after this new decree is passed.

Blocked - life is too short

Doing banking without smartphones is easy - card, ATM, cash etc (and secure) - no problemo with or without. Getting the news without smartphones is also easy - no problemo with or without . Stopping the negatives of Social Media - that is a good reason to get rid of smartphones. But it aint gonna happen.

He has certainly been considering it and making plans - just in case. And he will get plenty of notice before they come to arrest him and send him to 'real' jail. But perhaps he will take it on the chin and thus support his daughter as PM, because if he runs, she is 'gone baby gone'.

"The ugly face of falangism" - is insulting a group of people based on them being generally old white males (racist?). Some Expats do have contempt for Thais - that is true - but the vast majority are just sometimes extremely annoyed by their ignorance and corruption (not all of the Thais are - but a lot). Regarding your silly tax avoidance comment above, I am reminded of the Bard - ""The lady doth protest too much, methinks." And when you commented before "why should those that pay the correct tax subsidise those that don't want to pay" makes me think you panicked and lodged a tax return and paid taxes - so you want us all to do the same - and are annoyed we did not?

Nail on the head hit ...... they will do anything and everything to hold the Baht up as high as they 'require'.

They set interest rates 'independently' - nothing else.

The most stupid views are those based on ignorance and racism - like yours. The TRD process about 10 million tax returns a year - where are the other 30-40 million from Thais earning over 60/120K per year?? None of my Wife's family have ever paid income taxes, and two of them run businesses (hairdressers) that pull in well above 10K per month. Thais I know that pull in 100K in a good month do not pay income taxes - compliance is one thing, but enforcement is another thing altogether in Thailand. That is the same for the majority of Thais who does not work for a company that have a TIN and the company pays TRD a percentage of their income as income tax.

Yep indeed - with a 10 year LTR you can leave and re-enter Thailand as many times as you like without requesting 'approval' and you do not have to report every 90 days and you dont have to do TM30s etc unless you permanently change your address. That is an ideal place to be as not matter what happens you are OK, no matter what the next stupid thing they do about taxation falls down from the sky.

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries

Yes mate - I would not put anything past them - corrupt and incompetent best describes most of them. IMO Expats are OK now under this change (if approved), but it is only when they implement global taxation (which they will) that we will know if they want to tax foreigners who are retired/married and living long term in Thailand. I have been looking at the LTR Visa - I think I can just get over that bar and it seemed to me to be the best way to avoid income taxation obligations on money remitted into Thailand. However, the LTR Visa only provides income tax 'protection' on earnings remitted into Thailand. That might not be applicable when Thailand moves to a global taxation system. Anyone on a LTR that has documented that they are earning over 80K USD PA through foreign investments, might find themselves liable to pay income taxes on those earnings, whether they bring them into Thailand or not, under a global taxation system. I am sure there are highly capable and efficient Thai people at BOI getting actively involved with TRD to ensure that does not happen, accidently or otherwise, to those they have an LTR Visa - ROFLOL 🤣. IMO those with an LTR Visa need to stay across whatever arrangements are being implemented by BOI under their upcoming global taxation system - I would be sending emails, letters and making calls to BOI - nudge nudge wink wink.

The Thai elite have been manipulating the currency ever since the Junta took Office, to ensure it does not go below their preferred level to the USD. Check last 20-30 years and you will see that in 2014 the Thai Baht started going up against all currencies - and despite some highs and lows since then - the Baht has remained much higher than pre-2014. All parts of the Thailand Government have been doing what is 'directed' they do, in order to stop the Baht going down too far or too fast. Thailand has massive foreign reserves from decades of economic growth after 2000, and it has been using that more than most Governments do, to 'protect' the Baht. It is only those countries that manipulate their currency down (like China and others did for exports) that are seen by IMF and USA as 'cheating' - countries that manipulate their currencies up are not investigated. The Thai elite are holding up the Baht, otherwise their loan and financial repayments will go up, and if the Baht drops too much they will not be able to cover-up their fake GDP figures, and because importing expensive items like machinery and luxury cars and military equipment etc etc, will cost a lot more. Plus of course, wealthy Thais buying overseas property or investments etc,. have to pay more if the Baht goes down. A high Baht is great for the wealthy Thai elite, but it is bad for the average Thai who is much more reliant on exports and tourism for jobs and their economic well being. The Baht is going to crash - it is just a matter of time and temperature before they cannot hold it up as high as they want it held. How is this being done - many ways. Despite so many calls for lower interest rates for over last 2-3 years, the BOT kept the rates high even as other countries lowered them post Covid - as required by the wealthy elites. Those in Government who buy and sell currency to protect the Baht (yes they do), overdid it late last year and this resulted in the new inexperienced PM admitting they 'got it wrong'. If any Expat here does not see that TAT is lying through their backsides about the amount of tourists and their value to the economy, then they are completely unaware that TAT does that 'under directions' so that the GDP figures (based on tourism and other numbers) are higher on paper than they really are. The same goes for all the other measures that make up the GDP calculations that are done by the Government - they are not independently audited like a company. Corruption and graft is what allows 'cheating' to occur in Thailand - if any Expat here thinks they are not cheating on this and all other matters, you need to open your eyes up and look around you. It is not a 'paradox' - it is manipulation.

Planning ahead - always a good idea. Sticking head in sand - not a good strategy. It is good for now about income taxes, but Thailand might decide, when they do implement the global tax system, to tax all the foreign income of all tax residents (Expats included) - you never know. Another coup might happen and the next Junta may want Expats out - who knows what is going to happen. There are too many things that could happen here, and it is almost as foolish as not wearing a helmet on a bike, to not plan ahead for another option. I have a few Plan Bs, but plan C (go back to Australia) is my least preferred option - but I have a plan.

How was it there and is the SSRV OK - any advice. Philippines is an option if Thailand goes to sheite for Expats. Malaysia extended that exemption for another 10 years as per below. Apparently they cannot make it permanent under their current tax rules and by-laws - only 10 years at a time. Income Tax (Exemption) (No. 5) Order 2022 (Amendment) Order 2024 The Income Tax (Exemption) (No. 5) Order 2022 (Amendment) Order 2024 (“amendment order”) extends the income tax exemption for all types of foreign-source income received by resident individuals (except for income from a Malaysian partnership business that is received in Malaysia from outside Malaysia) until 31 December 2036, provided that the income has been subjected to tax in the jurisdiction of origin (the exemption was previously set to end on 31 December 2026, pursuant to the Income Tax (Exemption) (No. 5) Order 2022 (P.U.(A) 234/2022)). The amendment order will come into operation on 1 January 2027.

They have no capability or understanding - it will take years for them to be anywhere the Tax Offices in modern countries - probably decades. That is where we were dragged before - leave it alone mate - this proposal is good news and I think much more is coming. TRD are moving to global taxation - IMO they will implement exclusions for non-Thai citizens like most other countries have done. As the Malaysian Minster said (paraphrase) - 'Why would be discourage Expats from bringing money into our country that they will spend in our country, by hitting them with income taxes. When they buy things here they are building the economy with 'new' money and they will also be paying sales taxes on many of the products they buy'.

Go and have a good sleep - we are not going doing that road that another poster dragged everyone - the one that is no longer here, who was proven wrong many times, and who the current proposal cuts off at the knees. Quote from the article "The new (proposed rule change) policy encourages Thai nationals to repatriate foreign income for domestic investment. Under these new rules, foreign income earned and remitted within the same or following year will not incur tax. For instance, income from 2025 brought into Thailand in either 2025 or 2026 would not be taxed. Beyond this timeframe, usual tax rules will apply." They have made another mess of things obviously (what about after 2026), but the short and long of the current situation if that rule is implemented, is that it now looks AOK for retired Expats living in Thailand who are remitting money into the country. If you want to go ahead and calculate your income taxes, then go to the Provincial Office and get a TIN and lodge a tax return - or pay someone else to do that for you - then go right ahead - if you have already done that then I feel for you. If you dont know what the proposed change means - then you dont know what is going on - so I will tell you this. They screwed up - they recognise this only because 'declared remittances' in the lodged tax returns for 2024 was drastically lower than previous years - overall the remittances into Thailand have also dramatically reduced - they will not apologise - they want money remitted into Thailand ASAP and are willing to let it in tax free - because the economy is tanking. They are holding up the Baht as much as possible by using their reserves to buy the Baht whenever the value starts to drop - they are desperately trying to hold the Baht at 30-35 USD - otherwise their loan and financial repayments will be too much to cover up - and because those bringing in expensive items like machinery and luxury cars and military equipment etc etc, will have to pay more - and Thais wanting to buy overseas things like property or investments etc etc., will have to pay more. I hope you now understand a bit of what is going on.

DTAs and Visas over-ride whatever might be applicable in Section 40. But unlike in say Australia (and most of the West) where everyone is required to lodge a tax return, either through an authorised tax agent/accountant or using the online system, in Thailand PITs are lodged when the person or their agent/accountant has calculated that they have income taxes to pay. Some say you have to lodge when you have over XYZ Baht as taxable income you must lodge a tax return even if you calculate no taxes are due. But I have written advice from a tax lawyer that the current 'lodgement rules' from TRD is that they do not want millions of tax lodgments by people who do not have any income taxes to pay. Over time Thailand will tighten up their tax rules and enforcement and collections - but not right now.

The Thai tax system is a 'self assessed' system. You decide what is taxable income and act accordingly - but keep records in case the TRD checks you - which is extremely unlikely, and even then not unless you are regularly over several years remitting into Thailand over 2 million baht a year (that is the amount the TRD has asked for the banks to report). With this change, any income earned overseas after 1 Jan 2024 and remitted to Thailand will be no longer taxable income, if it is remitted within 2 years of it being earned. Everything earned before 1 Jan 2024 stays as before, and is not taxable income. That will mean the vast majority of Expats are OK. However, when Thailand moves to a global based tax system that may change. A global based system, means any money you earn overseas in any year is taxable income. BUT like most other SEAsian and World countries (not USA), I anticipate that Thailand will also rule that the income of retired Expats (and other non Citizens who are tax residents) is not taxable, if it has already been subjected to the taxation system of the country it comes from. That does not mean 'taxed' (it could be tax exempt) but as long as it is 'subjected to' then it will be non-taxable. Besides the obvious downsides to retired Expats if they did tax it all worldwide - if Thailand is going to tax the investment earnings of an executive of a Japanese/Korean/etc company working in Thailand for the usual 1-2-3 year stint, there will be no executives of Japanese/Korean/etc companies working in Thailand for over 180 days. Me thinks TRD might have just learned about the 'law of unintended consequences' when they stupidly decided to change the tax rule as a tax grab - maybe 🙂