TroubleandGrumpy

Great points mate. How they do that is that your tax returns are checked - so you have to tell them - it is a voluntary system. But if you dont tell them and they later find out - that itself is a big risk. However, the money you remitted into Thailand you will have to declare that it is savings or whatever, and not income. They can then, if they want to, require you to prove that - they probably wont unless it is a large amount - but who knows how they will manage this change.

You can believe whatever you want Mike - so can I. Read yesterday's and today's BP articles - just for starters.

The Thai RD has not provided any details - Sherring et al can only provide their advice on what they know now. There are plenty of good articles on the web about this matter - including Thai media organisations - it is a concern and they are all seeking clarifications. Hopefully they will provide that sooner rather than later. As some experienced Expats have said, they will probably eventually sort this out. But from what I have seen, the Thai Govt will only change is there is a lot of 'negative feedback' - which this forum is only a small part of.

Ditto - your points made are also often very accurate. However, now you have descended into the 'she'll be right mate" No Problemo Mode. And by all means you can do that - but may I suggest this comment of yours should be examined by yourself in self reflection: " It will take some time before things become clear so everyone must sit back, relax and wait." We must not do anything you say Mike - you give your views - others give theirs - and people make up their own minds. Maybe I am wrong - but I have never told anyone what they MUST do - only what I think might happen and why I think that might happen. What I always have done and always will do, is plan for worst case and best case scenarios. IMO anyone that only plans for best case scenarios and rubbishes those that dont, is like someone not wearing a helmet riding a bike in Thailand. It is up to you, and I hope it all goes well for you, but IMO that is unwise - because if something goes wrong, it could go very wrong.

No - that is trolling - maybe look up Webster/Collins. Example - Is English your first language. That is being a troll.

If this goes ahead as it currently stands (not details) the pundits are saying that the interest you earned on your savings is potentially taxable while you are a tax resident of Thailand. The issue of when it is taxable - remittance - in that year - partial or fully when remitted - is all very complicated. Example - you live in Thailand 100% of the year and earn money from overseas assets - but you do not bring any of that money into Thailand in that year. The 'old' rule says you have no tax liability even though you are a tax resident. So people would bring that money in 1-2 years later - no tax. The 'new' rules means that those earnings you made in the past years you were a tax resident are now taxable - no matter how long later when you bring that money into Thailand. It starts as of the Thai Tax year 2024 - Jan 1 to Dec 31. Any earnings made overseas in that year are taxable in Thailand - now and in the future. But there is hope that they will make exemptions for long term retiree/married Expats (and others) on those earnings made in savings etc - but it will probably not be exempted from earning on investments (property, shares, etc.).

That is a complicated question that no one here really knows the answer to in regards to the future change. Maybe you should ask an accountant/lawyer for advice - they will probably be able to give a reasonmable answer now - but until the Thai RD provides all the details regardiung this change, no one definitively knows.

You will still (IF this goes ahead) be required to lodge an income tax return, declaring exactly what you have said above. If the Thai RD agrees with you, they will issue you a tax certificate/clerance. Or they might disagree and send you a bill ????

That is exactly what that the lawyer/accountant said to me would happen in the near future. He has been in Thailand for a long time (now a Thai Resident) and stated that many years ago that was the deal for all Expats, but now it is only applied to those Expats that work and earn an income in Thailand (employee or a business).

Good Points. All Expats are potentially on their radar. If this goes 'pear-shaped' and Expat remittances are going to checked for applicable income taxation (and check if a tax return has been completed), then unless we can provide 'acceptable proof' (to Thai RD) that taxes have already been paid on all our remittances, then the Thai RD could decide we have to pay the applicable income tax in Thailand. I wonder who will they target first and nail to the cross - IF this goes ahead as it currently stands - as per the media reports and opinions publkished over the weekend. I cannot tell - is this a mountain or molehill??

I think the perfect word for the opposite of “fearmongering” is something like apathetic or complacent. Apathetic, adj: showing no interest or energy, or unwilling to take action, especially over something important. Fear-mongers make a mountain out of a molehill, and apathetes make a molehill out of a mountain.

Blocked

My understanding is that under the DTA the 'tax paid' in the home country (the Home Contracted State) is credited against the tax due to be paid in Thailand. If no tax is paid (because tax free) then technically the tax has to be paid in Thailand. The DTAs were not made for Retirees living abroad - they were made for business operating in both countries, and the people who work in any businesses overseas, and those who invest in businesses overseas. That is why it is imperative that Thai RD provides exact details regarding how the Personal Income Taxes are to be applied for long term Retirees and Married people.

Wow. What you said is exactly what worries many Expats about howe this change is going to happen. Lets hope they back down and this is not implemented that way. But if it is implemented that wau, it means that not only will my 'private' money I earned/saved years ago be taxed - unless I can 'prove' it was already taxed (not possible I am sure), but also my Govt pension - because the Aust Govt does not tax a pension payment - it is tax free. I agree about what you stated regarding their move to do exactly what screwed up our societies - looking after the poor and disadvantaged by throwing money at them. I know - because that is a 'black hole' of tax money wastage - both the target people and the all public servants administering the programs. Plus I can see any future MFP Govt doubling down on this social safety khrapp and even more new taxes being paid by Thais - and including Expats. Lets hope they get such negative feedback that they back away from taking the road to progressive disaster.

I sure hope this Thai Govt does not think they should do the same. I know a little bit about German's 'tax system' and they are the 'worst' in Europe - extremely bureacratic and very fragmented. You would think that they are so 'organised' - you know making cars, machines, and being so 'German' - but no - that is not how their Govt organisations are. They are very authoritarian - but they are not very organised and efficient. I was told many decades ago that the two worst people to run an organisation were Salespeople and Engineers. The Salespeople would make the company go through a series of booms and busts, because they are always chasing a new deal and not making things work well. But the Engineers would implement and reinforce rigourous 'quality controls' over all the organisation's systems, such that over time no one would be able to do anything without changing the whole system - that is the German bureacracy today. A decade or so after getting that advice, I witnessed first hand the takeover of many organisations by the beancounters (accountants) and realised they are just basically just 'money engineers'.

Good Luck.

Thanks for that post - lost of good information. As with all tax depts worldwide they will not tell you how to 'reduce' your taxes, but they will nail you if you avoid them. That tactic could work in a rational rule-based country, but it will not work here. And this is something that everyone needs to hear about - Thailand is NOT a rules-based society. Saying 'but that is the rule' means nothing to any Thai who has been told the rule is applied 'this way'. So if that tactic is found out about, the Thai Officer will (and can) decide that the Expat was deliberately avoiding taxes and hit them with a bill and fine. Good Luck getting his/her Superviser to reverse that decision. Good Luck appealing against that decision. In fact Good Luck challenging anything any Thai RD Officer decides is the rule. Not only will an Expat not win, it will cost them money to find out that they cant win. That is the legal reality of Thailand for Expats - you have very little if any legal rights. Now if an Expat has the ability to get a wife/friend to sit down with that Thai person and talk it out and through and do what is needed 'the Thai way' then that Expat might have success. But if an Expat quotes the rules at an official Thai person and think that the rule matters - they are very wrong.

Be careful mate. That will bring you to their attention. When I asked my wife why other Thai wives/GFs were not complkainig, she said because that will mean that they get 'noticed' and it is always better to not get noticed by any Thai Govt person or office.

That is one of the potential problems in this new rule - but we all hope that is not the case. The vast majority of Thais do not lodge an income tax return - same with most Expats. Clarifications are coming - but untiul then it is a worry - despite what some Expats are saying here. Thai Government to Begin Taxing Foreign-Sourced Income as of 2024 - The Australian-Thai Chamber of Commerce (AustCham) (austchamthailand.com) We all have to wait and see - we all have diffrent financial arrangements - hopefully before next year.

Yes and No. The only reason a tax dept anywhere will request that information, is because they have started an investigation. Whenever they 'check' someone out it commences with a file/reference - it may continue and it may not - most do not. How that request is made is already in place - electronic request using approved forms and authority etc. Somchai in Thai RD cannot just call XYZ bank and get your tranfers. Some people need to read this - about USA but applicable everywhere in the world. All international transfers are recorded - under International Laws. Sending international wire transfers over $10,000: full guide - Wise

Not worth the paper it was written on. Right - thanks for that mate. I will base my financial situation plans on what you were told by some Thai person - SURE. Get it in writing and I will believe you.

Wait - Hopefully the Thai RD will clarify any exemptions and details soon. At the moment the new interpretation does include ALL foreign remittances into Thailand. That does not mean that they will be taxing you/I - it means that money could be taxable income. Good article in a newspaper online Postreded in Bangkok today covers the current situation very well. I recommend you read it and then wait to see how things develop.

Mike - in one post you say you do your tax returns in Thailand. Does that mean you are a Resident or a Citizen? I only ask because a Resident is not the same as a tax resident. That is a fact and I cannot understand how you cannot accept that. A tax resident in Thailand does not need to be a Resident or a Citizen of Thailand. Maybe you should ask a lawyer. PS - I am many others are very keen to see that 'advice' you received from Thai RD.

Can you provide that please - show their letter/advice - blank out your personal details of course.

Firstly - the USA has a different arrangement with all other countries than anyone else, and enforces those rules strongly, and everyone complies. US citizens are liable to pay income tax to USA wherever they reside in the world. Secondly - has the Thai RD stated that the current situation will not change in any way after Ja1 2024 and the 2025 taxation returns. Thirdly - I have said many times in past posts that DTAs are different for everyone else than the USA who does not 'allow' its citizens to be taxed overseas, except under specific situations (individually approved).