TroubleandGrumpy

I am on it guys -looks like I have found the source of the claim that the Aust Age POension is considered assessable income in Thailand. Either way, I am contacting the ATO for definitive advice and I am also contacting a couple of local accountants. As soon as I get a response from anyone I will post it to Mike. The Guide will be updated by Mike only if the advice is definitive. As it stands right now, it is not definitive if the Aust Age Pension is taxable in Thailand. If any Aussie receiving the Age Pension has previously lodged a tax return with the Thai RD and therefore has a definitive answer, please post the information and any realted document/s (with any identifiers deleted).

Or maybe that Monk was not a 'good' Monk - and karma and all that ............... Just saying

That is true and that is what everyone has to decide for themselves. But as it stands right now, we are not yet certain of what income taxes will be applicable in what situations. There is so much uncertainty and that gap is being filled by discussions and opinions. If the Thai RD would provide much more clarity of how they will both apply and enforce this 'New Tax Era' (under which all tax residents [Expats] are expected 'to contribute', then we could all ascertain exactly how we will be affected and therefore eascertain what we will do about it. As it stands right now, the Thai RD has confirmed we are expected to pay income taxes (if applicable) - but all the details are missing, and we therefore cannot ascertain how exactly this 'new regime' will affect us individually.

True - and hope by all means - but also it is wise to plan for what happens if what you hope for does not come to pass. If you are a Man Utd fan I would not buy a ticket to the Final and hope.

Under Thai law/rule children under a certain age are allowed to ride a motorbike to/from school. I have seen many media stories and forum posts about that for many years.

"Its the Court's task." That logic is real - but it does not apply in Thailand. The Laws are such that it is the Police who get to decide first - not the Courts. Matters only go to Court when both sides in such a situation cannot reach an agreement 'managed' by the Police, or if the Police decide to send the matter to a Court for sentencing. Notice I said 'sentencing' not for determination of 'guilt'. In Thailand (in most situations) the defendent is not assumed innocent until proven guilty. They have to either prove their innocence, or they must claim they are exmept, or it is not applicable, or some technicality, etc etc - which of course means a wealthy Thai with very good Lawyer/s. Expats claiming innocence rarely win (never?) - so if if you are ever caught in the traffic accident situation - reach an agreement (and tip the Police for their troubles).

Yes that is the case. BUT - be careful - do not think that is it - and forget about it now. We do not know if you will have to 'prove' that to the satisfaction of the Thai RD. All they can 'see' at any time in the future, is that an Expat remitted XYZ Baht into Thailand in any given year/s - was it assessbale income/money is not something they get from bank records. So what happens if/when they ask you to 'clarify' why you did not lodge a tax return. What is the 'required proof' as far as Thai RD requires? So the answer is Yes - but it is not a get out of jail card.

If that had been the case over the thousands of years humans have farmed animals, then technically - yes. But they have not been bred and farmed and consumed for many reasons - some of which I outlined. Humans have been moving away from nomad existence to villages and farming both crops and animals for over 10,000 years - different times in different places and using diffrent animals and techniques. Nowhere that I know of has dogs and cats been 'farmed' as an animal to be eaten and consumed. People talk about Vietnam and others, but all their ancient depictions of animals that they farmed do not include dogs or cats. There is another issue I did not raise - the teachings of various religions that the consumption of certain animals is not permitted/approved. I am no expert, but it seems to me that the line has been drawn between hoofed animals that are primarily grass eaters, and paw/clawed animals that are primarily meat eaters. Hunter animals NO - Grazing animals YES. Horses are an interesting point - in some places they are OK, and in others they are not - but they are farmed and they eat grass - so IMO horse meat is OK to eat.

The 'farming' of cows, pigs, goats, checkens, etc over a very long period of time has resulted in the breeding of animals that are in a far safer condition to humans, and that are healtheir to consume. Dogs Cats Moinkeys etc have not been bred to be consumed and they have inherent risks in consumption by humans (rabies, parasites, etc etc). Additionally, in most cultures Dogs and Cats have been kept as companions and therefore are not viewed as an animal to be eaten. Likewise, monekys etc are seen as 'too close' to humans to be eaten. The only 'wild' animals that humans have consumed over long periods of time are fish. But if I am starving to death and all there is to eat is a cat/dog - then sorry, but well burnt dog/cat it is.

Wow - I wonder just how many new employees the Thai RD will need. IMO the increased money they get from this exercise will cost more than it takes to police the Vendors.

Dont forget Jussie Smollet - and all the others - and never for get that they are all from one 'side' - the woke liberal left and talking with them about anything is like playing chess with a pigeon. They just strut around in their self-importance, and <deleted> all over the board, and then fly away when 'disturbed' (by facts).

Income tax is only payable on money you bring into Thailand after 1 Jan 2024 - if it is money you earned after 1 Jan 2024. Bring no money into Thailand = No Income Taxes.

Shall do Mike - I will contact the ATO and request an online 'taxation ruling' about all the relevent taxation issues raised here about paying taxes in Thailand - especially the Age Pension. As soon as they reply I will let you know their answer/s. By the way, your work and efforts are very much appreciated. We dont always agree - but there is no doubting the effort involved and it is great that you are taking this thankless unpaid task on.

Good to know - thanks - get it done ASAP. The question is will that still be the same later this year/next year, when this is fully implemented?

Technically you have to declare any amount over 10,000USD, and yes it is 'assesable income' if you are a Thai tax resident in the year you brought that money into Thailand. Can you get away with it - Yes. Can you get caught - Yes. Is it worth it - up to you.

Yes indeed - it could be read either way. In the Details section of the DTA it also states:- australia : article 1-5 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th) ARTICLE 4 RESIDENCE 1. For the purposes of this Agreement, a person is a resident of one of the Contracting States: (a) in the case of Australia, if the person is a resident of Australia for the purposes of Australian tax; and (b) in the case of Thailand, if the person is a resident of Thailand for the purposes of Thai tax. Given that I am a tax resident in Australia and lodge a tax return every year, then I am both, and therefore only Australia can tax any pensions or annuity IMO. Howevber, there are lots of addiitonal definitions and situations listed in the DTA and who knows what ones will apply to any individual. Mate this thing is extremely complex - I know the Aust Tax Rules and they are fairly clear - plus you can use the ATO provided references and definitions and examples. The Thai RD site is very basic and often wrong - as an example it lists the tax rates that were applicable in 2013-2014 - I can only imagine how many other errors and ommissions there are. But I can say that there is no 'advice' section whereby clear and definitive advice in detailed circumstances is provided in English that I could find.

A lot of us feel the same. But I am still here and will wait until this thing pans out - despite being extremely angry about it too. Hopefully in 2024 it will all become clear one way or the other.

Under the Thai/Australia DTA it states: ARTICLE 18 PENSIONS AND ANNUITIES 1. Subject to the provisions of Article 19, pensions and annuities paid to a resident of one of the Contracting States shall be taxable only in that State. australia : article 16-20 | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th) IMO that means that only the State that pays a pension or annuity can tax that payment. In Australia the Age Pension is taxable income for the purpoises of calculating a person's total taxable income - however there is no taxes applied to the Age Pension payment, even though it is above the tax free threshold. When you get the chance could you please provide more details about exactly who and what was provided to you to make the statement that the Australia Age Pension is taxable income in Thailand. I will chase that up and try to get some clarity about the matter. May I also suggest that going forward you/Charlie provide a link to the latest updated statement, for when things are changed/updated. Not a post that ends up with hundreds of replies, nor an update within a thread that gets lost within all those replies. Is there a facility to provide that on AseanNow?

Yes but only if that money is deemed to be income earned and was earned after 1 Jan 2024. It looks like you will have to lodge a tax return in 2025 and state that it is not income, but dont ask me how you would prove that it is not - maybe Mike knows. @Mike Lister

Fair enough Mike - this thread is answering more of my issues than all the others together. Not great and not all good - but there is much more information to work through.

All good Mike - another person has sorted me out and corrected me on that point. Take care - hope all is well at hospital.

ooops - my bad - Assessable Income is the correct term (and what I meant).

Several thousand?? I saw a figure of 200-300 thousand Expats in Thailand that will now be expected to lodge returns? If it ainbt in English and available - unlike the 90 day reporting is frequently - then what happens? We have to get our documents translated/certified to Thai and lodge it manually?? This thing has more and more 'hairs' on it.

Mate - I feel exactly the same way and could add another 6-10 examples to your list. Likewise I am only bringing into Thailand the Age Pension payments in 2024 - I brought forward additional funds in December already. If I have to pay income taxes on that Pension then we are out of here. Hopefully the cliams made in this post that I can get 500K deduction in taxable income will pan out. And hopefully going forward Thailand will sort this all out compltely, and they will never force me in the future to prove that the 5 million baht I brought into Thailand that year is not taxable income - but if I am required to do that, then I must be totally confident that my 'proof' will be fully accepted, or it aint gonna happen - which m,eans we are out of hear. Some think I am being 'negative' - you should hear my Thai wife talk about what she thinks of me having to pay income taxes to the people running Thailand - especially given all the sheite they put me (us) through to stay here and the costs they charge me (us) for everything they provide me (especially medical services).