TroubleandGrumpy

Young Turk is a general saying for a young male rebelling against authority and doig things like riding big loud motorbikes etc. I think it was Rod Stewart who had a hit song back called that - way back in the day.

Fair point. I was referring to anyone riding a big bike fast in Thailand - which is not the smartest move. But maybe the young turk rides very carefully and not too fast - maybe.

Good point - and that is not a bad strategy. That is now on my list for one of the things to maybe do (if they hit me with income taxes).

Am I the first to say - Darwin Award. Sounds like the idiot and the gene pool will soon have another 'win'

Go in and see an IO in your locall Office - with the Thai wife. The IO will advise and give you the options available. Often they will an exemption to just about any rule, if they are nice and you and the wife ask them nicely.

On 12/2/2023 at 2:06 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said: It will all be taxable from 1 January 2024 onwards. From that date forward it is irrelevant when the 'earnings' were made. Any money remitted into Thailand that is 'taxable earnings/income' from 1 Jan 2024 onwards is taxable, irrespective of what year that earnings/income was made/received. Read my words above again. Any earnings made from Jan 1 2024 will be taxable whenever it is remitted into Thailand - no more holding on to it for 2-3 years and then brining it into Thailand tax free in the future. I can see why you misunderstood me - that chart makes it very clear. Thanks.

Absolute rubbish - a person from a DTA is not 'exempt' - it totally depends on what the source of the money is - pensions, investments, savings, salary, property rental, etc etc etc. If it is a taxable income - as defined by the Thai RD (not you) - you can under the DTA claim exemtions or reductions (through tax credits). If using a DTA as the reason for not payoing income taxes, a person has to PROVE that the money they brought into Thailand is either exempt and/or they have tax credits to apply against the taxes applicable in Thailand. That has to be lodged in a form that is acceptable to the Thai RD, and they have to accept lodgement is valid, and then they have to agree with your claim that you do not have to pay income taxes. It is not your/my call. The Thai RD makes it very clear in a published advice, that retired and married Expat's bringing money into Thailand from pensions, and/or earned from previous employment, and/or previous investments, are exempt. That is what I am hoping they will do - and sooner rather than later. Sorry to be negative - but it aint as simple as many people like you think. Under a DTA a person can claim exemptions (payment types) and credits (for taxes already paid). A DTA does not mean that Thailand cannot apply income taxes to a person of a DTA country who has brought money into Thailand. How and when and if any exemptions and credits are applied under a DTA, is at the sole dicretion of the taxation authority in that country. If a person disagrees with any decison made, they have the right to appeal and to then go to Court.

Go look in the nearest Thaiwatsadu store. They are the best priced hadware store chain in Thailand for most things. Dig deep and dig once

Yes mate - I hear you and understand - I like to live that way too - struggling at the moment. In fact - I have made my plans and done all the numbers - now is a good time to pull out of this and just wait. I am renting and so we can leave at any time - just a matter of deciding. Unfortunately, I can see things going more and more in a negative way in Thailand. Back in 2010 Thailand was so laid back and yes it was great for a long time. Then the Junta came in with the 'good guys in, bad guys out' etc etc. I (foolishly?) thought that removing the Junta would result in more of the 'mai pen rai' ways coming back. Looks like I was wrong - they now seem hell bent on steaming ahead with taxing everything that moves. There are many reasons why I have concerns and this is the big one:- There has been no media statement or clarification from PM/or a Minister or Thai RD stating that they do not want to tax Expats money. This Govt has been very proactive is addressing negative media issues, and yet there has been nothing said about the about 200K Expats living in Thailand, nor to the about 400K Thais working overseas, or any other groups this tax rule change could affect. Meanwhile, in The Philippines they have recently clarified (again) that no working or retired or married Expats in thgeir country will be taxed on any income they earn overseas - only the income they make in The Philippines. And that is something that this Thai Govt has not seemed to have considered - how will this impact working Expats - especially the Executives of Companies operating in Thailand. Recently, Tesla made the decision to base its new SEAsia Headquarters in Malaysia - Thailand missed out - 20-30 years ago Thailand was the only real and obvious choice - not nowadays. Vietnam, Malaysia and Indonesia are winning business investment business against Thailand for a reason - they are offering more attractive deals. Same applies for the older Expats with money - there are better offers on the table than Thailand has to offer. I would rather stay here because of the Thai wife - but if they are going to hit me with income taxes (unless a minimal amount) then we are leaving. Many people dont agree with me - and that is fine - but many do. And new well-off Expats who have a lot more than the Pension to live on, and are looking around for where to retire, will not pick a place that will hit them with income taxes when they bring their hard-earned money into Thailand. That is where I stand and why - over and out of here. This time for sure Rocky - nothing up my sleeve .............. This song is very 'on point' - the cover picture was taken in Bangkok.

OK - here you go: POST - The owner of the car, 40 year old Boy (nickname) had been driving home from a garage in Nakhon Sawan where he had taken the car for injector repairs. POST - Not saying the obvious. (meaning - a 40 year old boy). POST - I was playing golf a while ago, and there was a group of Thai men ahead of us - about the same age as 'Boy' I would have said. As one bloke said - "They just never grow up do they?" Yes - a bit off topic - but very relevant.

There is your problem right there Mike.

Only if we have to pay income taxes (unless a very small amount). We will certainly move address if we somehow end up living near you mate

I think we are in 'violent agreement' - the source of the funds means everything - maybe I misunderstood you. You do not have to complete a tax return unless you have income taxes to pay. Thailand does not want 30? 40? million people to file a tax return - it is optional. Many Thais do not pay income taxes, not because they dont earn over 150K, it is because they dont lodge a tax return. The Thai RD has no way of 'finding them' because many Thais earn their money in the 'cash economy'. But when the Thai RD gets a list of people from the banks who have remitted over (say) 2-5-10 Million Baht, they can and will 'find them'.

We are joking Mike - sarcasm.

It will all be taxable from 1 January 2024 onwards. From that date forward it is irrelevant when the 'earnings' were made. Any money remitted into Thailand that is 'taxable earnings/income' from 1 Jan 2024 onwards is taxable, irrespective of what year that earnings/income was made/received.

42 !!

I was playing golf a while ago, and there was a group of Thai men ahead of us - about the same age as 'Boy' I would have said. As one bloke said - "They just never grow up do they?"

Good to see you planning ahead Morch - I agree with you except for one thing - I will not wait until it bites me on the rrrrse before deciding what to do. I have all my money held overseas and I have a budget for 10+ years that includes bringing extra in money to Thailand. There is no way I will accept not knowing if I can bring an extra 2 million Baht into Thailand, on top of the normal 1 Million Baht, in order to buy a car and furniture or whatever. I want certainty that I will not be forced to pay income taxes on the 3 Million Baht I bring into Thailand. And I want absolute certainty that if I do decide to buy a property in the future, that I will not be forced to pay income taxes that money either.

The source and origins of the funds mean everything - if they are 'taxable income'.

Yes you are right - DTAs do not work like some poeple say. But your example is the 'worst case' scenario - we will not know where we stand until the Thai RD perovides it clarifications and exemptions.

No it is not. Thailand has DTAs with 61 countries and that is not how DTAs work. DTAs mean you can CLAIM exemptions and allowances on 'taxable income'. Some forms of money are exempt (eg. some Pensions) and some allowance can be CLAIMED for taxes already paid. Meaning you can CLAIM this amount of taxes paid (after proving it) against the taxes due in Thailand. Taxes in most western countries starts much much higher than the 150K Baht thrteshold in Thailand. DTAs are not the 'fix all' solution that some people are claiming - that is utter BS. Wait until the Thai RD releases all its clarifications and exemptions - then we will all know where we stand and what money being remitted into Thailand will be liable for income taxes.

Dont forget the costs of translaters for all the written and verbal communications. Any appeal against the Thai RD decision/sa, and any legal appeal to a Court, must be 100% in Thai. The Thai RD will not accept any document in any other language and anything subm,itted to a Thai Court must be translated and certified by a Court approved tranbslater. Plus they will only communicate with me in the Thai language, so if somehow I get to a Court, they will only speak Thai. That will probably cost a small fortune too. So all up it will cost a medium fortune. No worries - I am super rich and can afford to do it. Leave it with me boys

Thai RD tax guide from 2023 in English - 080966Ins94.pdf (rd.go.th) 1. The Thai RD has no idea what any money remitted into Thailand is from. They will/can know, but they do not know what it is from - pensions, savings, investments, drugs, whatever. It is up to the person receiving the money to advise them what the source of that money was - either by doing a tax return, or by answering their enquiries as to why you received X Million Baht from overseas in 2024, 2025, 2026, etc., but you did not lodge a tax return. 2. The Thai taxation system is an 'honour syetem' - you do not have to lodge a tax return if you or accountant determine that you have no income taxes payable. However, if you are later found/decided to be wrong - you could be severely financially 'punished', and you could also be subject to detention, jail, deportation, etc. This is not the Immigration Dept - there are no 'agents' and no 'payments' and the punishments can be severe. 3. Until 1 January 2024, any money brought into Thailand that was technically 'taxable', but had been earned prior to 2024, was not subjected to income tax - it was exempted. Only 'taxable income' brought into Thailand in the year it was earned, was taxable. Many wealthy Thai tax residents used this exemption to invest overseas, and then brig back the profist a few years later tax exempt. That is the rule that has been changed - but that change 'technically' means that all money remitted into Thailand is taxable - because - refer to paragraph 1. Until the Thai RD provides their full list of clarifications of what is taxable and what is is exempted, then we only know that 'technically' all money remitted into Thailand is 'taxable'. It is not until the Thai RD provides those clarifications and exemptions, then we will all know what is taxable, what is not, and therefore what each of us will decide to do. My plan, while waiting, is to bring forward any remittances I can, before end December 2023 (anything brought into Thailand in 2023 is not technically taxable). Then in 2024, I will only bring into Thailand what is absolutely necessary, while I wait to see how things go. If I have to pay income taxes to Thailand on money I bring into Thailand to spend in Thailand (unless a very small amount) we will be leaving Thailand. If I do not, then we will stay. There are several countries nearby that are far more 'friendly' to Expats - including those that only tax money made by Expats in their country - not money brought into the country by Expats. Obviously that would be stupid to stop Expats, who have come to live in your country, bringing money into your country to spend in your country - and on that money they spend they pay all 'point of sale taxes' (VAT). This IMO is where hopefully the Thai RD will realise they need to fix this problem, and will figure out how how to solve it. They are after those Tax Residents that have been sending money overseas to invest, and then bringing money back and paying no taxes on the profits made on that money. The vast majority of Expats dont send money overseas - we only bring money into Thailand.

Mate - just do not argue with them - there are more cognitively dissonant people here than at a rabid political rallly in USA. You will be wasting your time - just like I have, so many times. Post advice - but dont 'over' defend it.

Mate - just do not argue with them - there are more cognitively dissonant people here than at a rabid political rallly in USA. You will be wasting your time - just like I have, so many times. Post advice - but dont 'over' defend it.