oldcpu

In regards to that, if 2024 tax form is not to be changed from 2023, it's not straightforward how that remitted money is to be entered in a tax form. So we then get this forum views of some who claim that clearly assessable income, that is tax exempt, should then be called non assessable. And since no longer called assessable ( in their view) it should not be reported. Frankly, given the Thai tax forms limitations, I don't know who is right.

P60 ? What attachment form is that? Its not the "Allowance(s) and Exemption(s) after Deduction of Expense(s) attachment. It is also not Box B "Exempted Income" in PIT.91. Further even the different PIT.90's different "Allowance(s) and Exemption(s) after Deduction of Expense(s)" attachment section has no entry that is laid out in any shape or manner to allow entry of any exemptions from DTAs, nor from money/income from before 1-Jan-2024 (per PAW-161), nor for tax exempt assessable income of LTR Visa Wealth Pensioners/Wealthy Global Citizens. I believe it is with good reason that a number of us are interested to see what the 2024 Thai tax forms (PIT.90 and 91) might hold. Currently I have yet to find any Thai tax forms that allow entry of those tax exempt items. Note I am not saying to file or not to file. Rather just saying lets watch to see how this evolves so we can assess our own impact.

Conversion of Thai language to English language is VERY easy (using Google translate with a browser). However while such translation allows one to read the Thai forms (in English) they are no longer in what I consider a suitable format for tax submission filing. Further, when the proper English language forms come out, they could be different. .

The B6 ( not shown) where one lists exempt income and then copies that to A2 is very very very limited and in my view does not address almost all exempted income for many expatriates who are tax residents to Thai.

The "issue" as I read it, is the translation of the Royal Decree causes an ambiguity. Does the Royal Decree for the LTR visa intend to state for LTR-WP that the "tax law paragraph requiring assessable income be reported for tax" is exempt, or does it mean that just the "assessable income is tax exempt". (Those are my words - not the exact tax law nor Royal Decree words). There is a difference. Current translations I have read seem to refer to the later and not the former. I understand your interpretation. And I like your interpretation - but I am honest in stating I do not know what is correct. So as a result, given it was easy for me to do (fortunately) , I elected to bring no money into Thailand for the next few years. Further in this regard, at an unplanned moment of opportunity confirmed with a Phuket RD official that I neither needed to obtain a Thai TIN (in my circumstance) nor file a Thai tax return given I was bringing no money into Thailand. My hope is based on the experience of others, in a few years there will be no ambiguity. Clearly everyone's tax situation is different, and I suggest everyone find what they consider to be the best legally compliant approach for themselves in regards to tax-returns and taxation, optimising such as much as possible to their benefit within the letter of the law.

Article XVIII of the Canadian-Thai Double tax agreement states that "pensions and other similar remunerations ... arising in a Contracting state and paid to a resident of the other Contracting State shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned state". I interpret that as meaning "pensions and other similar remunerations ... arising in Canada and paid to a resident of Thailand shall be taxable only in Canada". Some other words are added to clarify the pension/remuneration source needs to be indeed from Canada. So from what I can read, your obligation is to only pay taxes in Canada on your Canadian sourced pensions. You will have no Thai taxes on that Canadian income (pensions). I suppose if you also have Thai income over a certain threshold, then maybe you may have to list such Canadian income in a Thai tax return, such that your 'income tax bracket' (given that Canadian income) can be assessed by Thailand in regards to Thai taxes on Thai income. But having typed that, I see no place on the Thai tax forms to adequately cover such a possibility. So maybe there is no need to list such. I do NOT know. . I will be most curious as to any response you get, and if you do get a response, I will also be curious if it is a correct response (as sometimes I think even the RD tax officials can make mistakes).

I tend to agree that in order to better address exemptions such as those noted in DTAs, Royal Decree for LTR, and income/savings from before 1-Jan-2024, it would be useful to have another line/entry under 'exemptions' in the Thai tax form. Without such entries to list those noted 'exempt' incomes in the Thai tax form, it suggests that such 'exempt' income is instead being treated as not-assessable income, ... and in which case income as such that noted need not be included on a Thai tax return. But I am no tax expert. My view is to wait for a few years (and not remit money to Thailand) and see how this 'plays out' (and I am fortunate to have the "luxury" to be able to do that).

I would encourage anyone who is clearly required to file a Thai tax return, to file one. Having type that, my view is that unless the Thai government has another (non-tax related) reason to evict one from the country, there is more likely to be just the government fining one some money , and after the fine is paid 'all is forgiven'. However if the government is looking for an excuse, to go after an individual, then not filing/paying taxes can always be a good excuse that government's will 'hang their hat' on and proceed with eviction or some imprisonment.

I don't know if normal ... but it myself 5-months to get an LTR-WP visa. I made my initial application in January-2023 and did not actually get the Visa until June-2023. Of course my case was very different from yours. One thing I suspect is there can be an interaction between the 'screener', their 'management' and 'immigration' and I suspect dependent on the presentation of the 'screener' of one's application to 'management' or to 'immigration' can change the approval/processing time. Still, my suspicion, is if what you were told is true, then I would not think it would take immigration too long. I assume this is only for you? Or is it in parallel an LTR for your family?

I hear you ... but I find the wording in Thai documents can be less than clear. Take the LTR visa for example. The Royal Decree for the LTR-WP visa holders states that foreign assessable income is tax exempt. The Royal Decree clearly refers to 'assessable income' and then it states such is 'tax exempt'. Yet there is no place on the 2023 tax form for such tax exempt assessable income. So if exemptions have nothing to do with income that is not-assessable, why does the Royal Decree refer to assessable income and state it is tax exempt. I believe what we see is an inconsistency in terminology , making it difficult to be definitive when referring to such terms. < sigh > Anyway - all the best - and I hope with time this will be very clear to all and that impacts on most will be little to none (that is a hope - not a prediction).

I just looked again at that website - and on 2nd thought, I am not convinced that is the website my wife went to in order to apply for a TIN form myself. Likely I will need to wait until she returns home.

On the topic of trying to get a Thai Tax-ID, I note this page (Thai language) for filing an on-line tax return, where in the upper right corner is a 'green box' which one clicks on to "apply for membership" which I assume means "apply for a tax-ID". https://efiling.rd.go.th/rd-efiling-web/register I suspect (but not sure) that might the the 'box' my wife clicked on when she attempted to obtain a tax-ID for myself. I posted on this previous and in the end after applying (uploading various info , such as passport copy, pink-ID copy) the Phuket RD branch phoned our home, and advised I did not qualify for a Thai TIN (as I was not bringing in any income into Thailand at present and because I have no Thai income). ... I am not 100% certain that is how my wife applied for the TIN, ... she is currently out of country traveling with some friend ... but i suspect that is how she made the online TIN application. At present, per the Phuket Thai RD officials advise (to myself via my wife) I don't plan to file a 2024 tax return for Thailand (I will file such to Canada), ... but I do hope to watch and monitor how this all turns out Best wishes to all on this topic. .

In regards to assessable income, and pondering the previous (tax year-2023 and earlier) Thailand tax returns, I took another look at the tax form Por.Ngor.Dor.91. (Again , 2024 tax year form is NOT available best that I can find). When I look at the current (2023 and earlier) Por.Ngor.Dor.91 it has a 'section-B' where 'exempted income' is listed. Then the amount from that 'section-B' (exempted income) is then re-entered in section-A (where it is subtracted from one's salaries, wages, pensions). I note that not in section-B, nor in anywhere else, does the tax form list income exempt from before 1-Jan-2024 (ie exempt per PAW-161), nor income exempt due to DTAs, nor income exempt due to LTR visa (by Royal Decree). There is no place to list such exemptions. So I then speculate (where 'speculation' is the 'operative word') .. if the 2024 Por.Ngor.Dor.91, when it comes out for 2024 tax year is similar to previous years, I can't help but believe that such income (ie from before 1-Jan-2024, due to DTAs, and due to LTR) could be considered as not-assessable income, and hence if not assessable then it is not to be reported on the Por.Ngor.Dor.91 tax return document. There is simply NO obvious place on the tax return form to list these exemptions. From this I again speculate, that if a person has no other assessable income, then it makes no sense to submit a Thai tax return. A number of forum users have been stating such, and I believe the 'old' (2023 and earlier) tax forms may indeed support such a view. Still , the 2024 form is not yet out, so I guess we will need to wait and see. I am just as curious as everyone else.

I could not see any place to enter 'age'. Still, I found it useful for assessing if any tax on income from money in Thailand Banks/Bonds - and it suggests I have no tax owed for my small Thai income from such. IMHO that is good in my case, where I did not remit any foreign money into Thailand in 2024 (and even if I did, I believe such should be tax free as some (not all) covered by DTAs, and all should be covered by PAW.161 and also covered by my being on an LTR visa). In my specific case it supports my assessment that I need not for tax-year-2024 file a Thai tax return for my small Thai income. ... Like many others I will wait and see how year 2025 turns out. Best wishes to all in your assessments as to whether it is necessary for you to obtain a tax-ID and if necessary to file a tax return.

I suspect your pink ID # has already been activated as a Thai TIN. When my and I tried that over a month ago, the pink ID # was rejected. When later (in a phone call) my wife asked a Phuket RD official why the pink-ID # was rejected, he stated because mine was not yet activated as a Thai TIN. Glad to read you had some success.

Since we are off topic here ... How much time have you spent to study Thai history - and in particular military history? I suspect you did not read up on the 1547 to 1549 Thailand-Burmese war, nor .. the 1584 to 1593 Thailand-Burmese war, nor .. the 1624 to 1636 Spanish-Siam war, nor .. the June-1688 to Nov-1688 French failed seige of Bangkok .. the 1700-to-1701 Burmese-Siamese War .. the 1717 Siamese-Vietnamese War .. the 1771-to-1773 Siamese-Vietnamese War .. the 1775-to-1776 Burmese-Siamese War .. the 1778-to-1779 Lao-Siamese War .. the 1785-to-1786 Burmese-Siamese War .. the 1797-to-1798 Burmese-Siamese War .. the 1802-to-1805 Burmese-Siamese War .. the 1809-to-1812 Burmese-Siamese War .. the 1824-to-1826 Anglo Burmese War (which also involved Thailand) .. the 1840 Cambodia rebellion (where there was Siamese intervention) .. the 1940-41 Franco-Thailand war (I bet you NEVER even heard of this !) .. the 1948-to-1960 Malayan Emergency (where Thailand participated to ensure independence of Malay) After you have studied some Thai history - and read up on those noted conflicts (where I listed some to make it easier for you), then lets discuss this. .

Do you know anything about condo ownership? Based on that? I suspect little. No. You have no point for such a generalization. I changed my visa. No more 90-days reports. Proves my point. Nonsense.

I guess you never studied the aftermath of the Vietnam war.

Such as the mid-1980s Thailand repelling Vietnamese attack into Thailand? perhaps something older? How about 200 years prior, in 1786 ? : https://www.jamiesphuketblog.com/2011/06/phuket-heroines-monument.html (repelling a Burmese invasion)

That is not so clear to me , .. according to what I understand based on what the Phuket RD official my wife talked to. ... Yes the official noted my pink-ID number could be my TIN number (for on-line tax submissions) if activated, but because I was remitting no money to Thailand, he would not activate the pink-ID # as a TIN number for on-line tax submissions. According to RD website: https://www.rd.go.th/14688.html I am puzzled by the term 'natural person' .. Does that refer to being borne in Thailand. But if referring to a 'real person' as opposed to a business, then yes a pink-ID holder may not have to request a TIN. Frankly, I find this all very obscure and fuzzy. When the time comes that I restart remitting money to Thailand, I may (or may not) try again applying for a Thai TIN. I am also on an LTR visa which IMHO makes it even less clear (less likely ???? I don't know) that I will require a Thai TIN (as my Thai sourced income is too small).

I read the issue with this approach is if your son uses the money you gift him, to pay for your food and your accommodations, and your automobile (and any aspects other of your Thailand lifestyle) then that gift of remitted money is not a tax exemption, it is then assessable, and Thailand tax may be due on that dependent on when the income came (timewise), and dependent on any DTA with the source country. However I am NO tax expert. That is just what I read. I could be wrong.

Interesting - yet my experience is the vast majority of airlines don't check for an onward ticket. Yes some do check - but most don't (based on my experience and on my talking to other expats and to friends who have visited Thailand). I guess some airlines just 'gamble' or they don't implement a 'safe' policy with their airline staff.

What I plan to do is keep a record (in a spreadsheet - call this spreadsheet-1) of my foreign savings as of end-of-business on 31-Dec-2023. I also plan to keep a separate record (in a separate spreadsheet - call this spreadsheet-2) of any foreign income after 31-Dec-2023. I will deduct any withdrawals NOT brought into Thailand from spreadsheet-2. Only if spreadsheet-2 is about to go 'negative' will I deduct the remaining withdrawal money (not brought into Thailand) from spreadhseet-1. And any money I bring into Thailand I will always deduct from Spreadsheet-1. The idea here to undo the 'commingled' aspects best possible via an accounting method - to prove all money brought into Thailand was before 1-Jan-2024. Ideal? No. But that is my plan (although it may be totally unnecessary for me given I am on an LTR visa).

I am thinking the article is mostly reporting on a quote of an RD official who was thinking of Thai citizen taxpapers. The article makes no mention of the difference between Assessable and Not Assessable income. Further the article refers to P.N.D. 90 and Form P.N.D. 91 forms ... and it would not surprise me if the Thai official made no specific mention of those forms, but possibly such was inserted by writer or editor of Siam Rath Online. There is no mention of requirement for a TIN (where for Thai citizens their ID card # is automatically their TIN). Frankly, in regards to expatriates in Thailand, I don't think this adds anything more than what has already mostly been posted on this forum. I still see aspects as to what is assessable, what is not assessable, and whether assessable tax exempt remitted foreign income requires a Thai tax return (where many on this forum believe (and could be correct) that no tax return required if assessable remitted income is tax exempt). My hope is that eventually we will obtain clarity on these aspects.

The article mentions the electronic forms P.N.D. 90 and Form P.N.D. 91 and states they can be submitted online. However I believe that is only possible 'online' if one already has a Thailand Tax ID Number (TIN). (And if someone knows better, please correct me on that). I suspect if one does not yet have a Thai TIN and one wishes to submit, then the one could fill in the forms (minus the Thai TIN), print them out, and take them to one's local Thai RD. .... ( and then 'maybe' sit for an hour or more while they try to figure out what to do with a tax submission from someone who has no Thai TIN). However I type the above noting tax year 2024 P.N.D. 90 and Form P.N.D. 91 forms are not as of yet (as of me typing this) on the Thai Revenue Department web site, so I make this post from how I understand the year-2023 tax forms to work (which require a Thai TIN, I believe). Again - I am not 100% certain on this - but that is my understanding (that a Thai TIN is needed).