oldcpu

For large amount of money transfers, its going back to the 'old day's where we had to go to the bank in person, so to make a transfer.

There are exemptions, but one needs to be careful in regards to conditions, for if one is audited and one did not follow the letter of the tax law, there is potential to find oneself fined, or worse. Re: the gift exemption, the money can NOT be used to directly benefit one's self. There are constraints even with the LTR visa tax exemptions. There are variants of the LTR visa, and not all variants get the same tax exemption. Consider the LTR-WP and LTR-WGC variants of the LTR visa. The latest interpretation of BoI (as emailed to a couple of Aseannow forum members) clarified that if foreign income is brought into Thailand, in the year that it is earned, then such income is NOT tax exempt by Thailand. Such foreign income, to be Thai tax exempt (assuming no DTA exclusions), must be brought in a tax year OTHER than which it was earned. More precisely, per POR.161.162, Before 1-Jan-2024, ... Not before 2023. Yes, this is important. Some of us remitted a LOT of money to Thailand BEFORE we became Thai tax residents. It depends entirely on what the DTA with Thailand of the 'social security' source country says. Do NOT ASSUME one's social security is tax exempt. Dependent on the source country it may not be Thai tax exempt. Typically DTAs are in place to prevent DOUBLE TAXATION. ... Ergo in many (dare i say most) cases, one has already paid tax on one's foreign sourced income in the country of the income source. Further, in a number of DTA cases, one IS taxed (on paper) in both countries, and one has to obtain tax credit paperwork from one of the two countries, so to obtain tax exemption in the other. The paperwork to be conducted can be a PIA. I assume you mean interest? No, it is NOT tax exempt. There can be a 15% withholding tax, and after that withholding tax is deducted, one's obligations to include that interest income (left after withholding tax deduction) is no longer considered assessable. But 15% is not the same as exemption. Yes, but threshold is very small. NO, its not tax exempt if the money is used to benefit one's self. I won't discuss such here. There is a degree of risk here. I recommend caution here, where I do agree with you that everyone should assess their own case, assess their income source, assess the DTA between Thailand and the source country of their income, review/assess Thai ministerial directives such as POR.161/162 so to carefully bring in pre-1-Jan-2024 savings into Thailand if no other Thai tax exemptions apply, and if one has extended travel ( > 181 days) planned outside of Thailand, use that opportunity to remit a lot of money to Thailand. But be cautious and careful as to how one manages and structures their funds, as not all the points in your post that I pointed out, mean money can be blindly brought in. One needs, IMHO, to be alert as to one's own constraints as to how one manages legally their tax exposure.

Very recently, in DIRECT correspondence to a couple of different LTR-WP visa holders, BoI noted the guidance that they received from the RD was that to be Thai tax exempt, remitted income for the noted LTR visa holder must be remitted in a year different from the year it was earned. ... ie income remitted in the same year it was earned would potentially be Thailand taxable (dependent on DTAs and other factors). This IMHO was a big change in BoI's position in regards to LTR visa holder's Thailand tax exemption. To the best of my knowledge, BoI have yet to publicly post this important detail.

I also reads like he lumped local Thai income (rentals) with foreign remitted income. So its not a very clear assessment in regards to audits nor why (ie is it mostly for local income earners vs those remitting foreign income)?

I would not use the word 'problem', but it could complicate this a bit if audited. My view is to (1) have a print out of all one's assets as of end-day 31-Dec-2023 (especially cash position). For any equities held on 31-Dec-2023, note what the original purchase was previously (as such was purchased with cash). (2) note any profit made from equities sold after 31-Dec-2023 (as that dependent on a DTA may (or may not) be taxable if remitted to Thailand. (3) keep track of all cash withdrawn from the accounts that had cash end-of-business on 31-Dec-2023. (4) keep track of all cash from (3) that is remitted to Thailand (as per Por-161/162 that is nominally tax exempt). With that information and with appropriate bank account and financial structuring, it should be feasible to make it clear if any remitted cash is tax exempt per Thai law and per Thai ministerial directives. No. I have no accountant to recommend. IMHO any accountant will ask for the information I noted above, and then will simply possibly restructure such and put an accountant stamp on it. Further such is likely only needed if one is audited. Having an accountant stamp, and structure ones appropriate financial remittance records, may, or may not, help. My (possibly not relevant) experience with an accountant in Canada is the accountant I choose only garnered more attention (from Revenue Canada) as Revenue Canada was fully aware that this accountant's submissions in regards to tax were borderline to possibly shady. Ever since one difficult year with Revenue Canada (in Canada), I have always avoided tax experts and tax accountants (in Canada) and done my own Canadian tax returns. Perhaps i was just unlucky there. In contrast, in Germany, for years, I had I tax accountant who did my tax returns who was very good. .

Its been 2 decades since I lived in Canada (country where i was born). Often, when i show up at Canadian immigration, with my passport, the Canadian IO says to me: "Welcome back, ... do you plan to stay long this time? " .... Which I don't mind, as the 'tone' is typically very polite. ... I will often smile and reply with something like " only xxx-weeks, giving me enough time to take in a few hockey games while I am here, ... " . That occasionally gets a smile in return. Most (not all) of my experience (that is less pleasant) when entering a country, with a government employee trying to provoke some sort of response is over 2 decades ago with Canadian customs. But that's off topic and I won't go into that here.

There are always risks in life. There is a risk that Type-O and OA annual visa renewal price could increase (HOPEFULLY NOT). There is a risk such visas could be cancelled (HIGHLY UNLIKELY IMHO). There is a risk of nuclear Armageddon (hopefully NEVER). There is a risk anyone of us could get involved in a Thai vehicle accident (THIS is MORE LIKELY). Lets look at we know. We know a number of expats who live in Thailand > 180 days, applied for a tax-ID and were denied such. I know that for a fact. I was one of those denied a tax-ID. We know we don't read any reports of the MANY MANY MANY expats who go for annual extensions, being asked for tax IDs. OK? We know that we don't read of such. We know that there are many different countries each with different Double Tax Agreements with Thailand, ... where it is very difficult for anyone in Government in Thailand to know what remitted income to Thailand may be assessable and which income may not be assessable (due to various DTAs). It is complex. its not an easy topic. We know trying to figure out which remitted income is assessable and which remitted income is not assessable (based on dozens of different DTAs) is very very difficult for even tax experts, much less the Thai RD, and even less for the Thai immigration. And further, I ask what do we know in regards to any concerns re: immigration cooperating with the Thai RD requiring a tax ID for expats? Well we know such giving a tax ID to all expats is currently against the in practice Thai RD policy, based on them not granting tax-IDs to many of us. I think we both agree (for many expats) that hopefully a tax ID will not be needed. I think even if a tax-ID eventually may be required, it will also not be so bad, due to Thai Ministerial document POR.161/162 (re: tax free pre-1-Jan-2024 savings if remitted), and due to various DTA with Thaliand, as many will not pay Thai tax, and worst case for those (who need not pay) would be the potential irritation to submit a Thai tax return if their assessable income met the pre-requisite threshold, which is not a certainty given much remitted income at present can be considered not assessable. Obviously (to me at least) is every expat should look at their own income situation, note the income source, note the timing of any savings, and note the DTA with one's income source country, and be aware as to one's potential exposure.

No. That is only applicable to relevant LTR visa holders.

I assume you are referring to withholding tax by BBL on the interest?

I think we are off topic, but this reads to be a mistake to me. Could it be the translation service he was looking to use, could not translate from Italian to Thai, and so he was thus asked (by the translation service) to first have the document translated to English language, such that they could then translate the English to Thai? This reads to me like a translation service issue, or an issue with the Italian Embassy, but not a Thai foreign affairs constraint.

tens of thousands of THB may not matter if less than the Thai tax return filing threshold (ie less than 60,000 THB if you are single). I suspect it depends on a number of factors, such as the Double Tax Agreement (DTA) between Thailand and the country from where your foreign remitted income is sourced. Its possible such a Thai - Foreign country DTA could make your income not assessable by Thailand. And its also possible the DTA may not help at all. I believe if you are a tax resident of Thailand, if you have assessable income that exceeds 60,000 THB (if single, or exceeds 120,000 THB if married), you nominally are supposed to file a tax return. Note the word assessable. This is key as its possible your foreign remitted income may (or may not) be assessable income for tax return filing purposes. Also, given various deductions, i read one generally may not actually pay tax until one's net taxable income (after deductions and allowances) exceeds 150,000 THB. However I am NO expert on this. Others who know more can post on this. But again- note POR.161/162 which defines savings from before 1-Jan-2024, being remitted to Thailand, is not considered assessable income. We have so many threads on this topic ... but i concede diving into them can be tiring.

Well, I 'feel' for you regarding taxation, if you end up being excessively taxed. I believe there are many variations for tax obligations, dependent on the country of one's income, and the Thai-to-foreign-country Double Tax Agreement (DTA). Relatively recently, I spent a lot of time reviewing Canadian tax law and the Thai-Canada double tax agreement, while at the same time trying to be up to date with Thai tax law and Thai ministerial documents (relevant to taxation) and of course any relevant (to taxation) Royal Decrees. I only looked at these from my perspective given my income sources. I contributed to a thread on Canadian taxation on this forum ( https://aseannow.com/topic/1307606-what-is-the-tax-treaty-between-canada-and-thailand/page/2/ ) where I summarized my research. Why do all of this? As a non-resident to Canada, I feel I paid too much tax in Canada in tax-year 2024, and that was what motivated me to do more research. I now plan, in my 2025 tax return to Canada (that i will submit in a few months) to include an accompanying letter, referencing specific sections in Canadian tax law, and also in the Canada-Thai Double tax agreement, justifying some deductions in my planned tax return. My current view is whoever in Revenue Canada, reviewed my tax return for 2024 tax year, was (like me at that time) not fully aware of all of the details of Canada-Thai DTA, and not aware of some tax aspects in regards to Canada law for taxing non-residents (where withholding tax has already been applied). I believe I may have failed to make some deductions, and the Revenue Department did not correct my return to give me the appropriate deductions. Further, since then, I slightly restructured some Canadian finances to hopefully better minimize inappropriate excessive tax exposure. In some cases, a DTA with Thailand may open up such possibilities for foreign income, dependent on the DTA details. In terms of this thread, .... regardless of any Thai tax proposed changes, that may, or may not come to pass, for those where the tax due can be significant, it may be useful to familiarize one's self with the tax law (of Thailand, of one's income sourced country, and the relevant DTAs). I am a bit surprised we don't see more threads (like the one I contributed to on Canada taxation) for other countries. We have expats from many countries on this forum. And given my upcoming April-2026 plans (for my Canada tax return), i suspect later in 2026 i will find out how much Revenue Canada agrees, or disagrees, with how I file my tax return. Murphy's Law says they will disagree with me. Lol !

I do the same re; my Canadian income - I pay taxes in Canada for the income I receive in Canada. I even received a formal letter from the Canadian government, offering to tax me as a Canadian tax resident (even thou I am a resident of Thailand) so that I could better take advantage of tax deductions offered to tax residents of Canada. it was nice of them to give me the choice. I thankfully declined that offer to be taxed as a Canadian tax resident (even thou I am not a resident). Again, it was nice to be given the choice. Surprising (to me) is for my German pension, as a resident of Thailand, I don't need to submit a German tax return. I did submit one for the first couple of years in which i moved to Thailand, and i subsequently received a formal letter from the German government advising me as long as my residence and financial situation did not change, I did not have to submit a German tax return. ... I wish Canada was that nice. lol !

i own a condo, and live in that condo with my Thai wife. My name is in a Yellow book for my condo. My wife completes a TM30 for me. When I was on the Type-O/OA, I used to bring a copy of the Chanote with me (in addition to yellow book and TM30) when i went to immigration. I recall they asked to look at my Chanote once (Phuket immigration) but they did not keep a copy of it. They did keep copies of my yellow book print out and my TM30 screen shot printout. However was such really required? ... I don't know. I am now on LTR visa and I have no recent Type-O/OA experience (I still thou - have my wife complete a TM30 for me staying in my condo even thou I am on an LTR visa). The Phuket immigration volunteers on their web page, of 90-day extensions (of a Type-O/OA) state (these are extracts .. not the full requirements): Initial Non-O 90 Day extra Requirements (retirement) - Rental contract or proof of ownership if applicant owns their residence - Copy of Owner’s ID - Copy of Owner’s House Book - Copy of Owner’s Chanote (Front and backside) .... - An up-to-date address registration (TM30) ... and for a one year extension they state : One Year Extension Requirements (retirement) - An up-to-date address registration (TM30) Under the one-year extension requirement (for retirement), they don't list owner's ID, nor housebook, nor owner's chanote for the 'one-year' but that could be a typo on the webpage for all I know. i suspect every immigration office has differences re: their requirements, and further, I suspect every IO in the immigration office may have slightly different requirements.

There are two Thai Ministerial directives, POR.161 and POR.162, which together note that any foreign income from before 1-Jan-2024 is considered savings, and hence is not taxable if brought into Thailand. I am not aware of any official guidance as to how to 'prove' this. The approach that I believe worth while to adopt, is to have a record of all savings as of close of business on the last day of 2023 (I think that was Friday 29-Dec-2023, but i may have my day of week wrong). Have a print out recorded of one's foreign cash position in banks, outside of Thailand on that date. Then have a spreadsheet from that data onward, recording all transactions of money brought into Thailand, such that it can be credibly proven that all money brought into Thailand was from cash on 29-Dec-2023. [Possibly Sunday 31-Dec-2023 is a better end-date]. Where it comes 'tricky' is how non-cash 'savings' are assessed re:POR.161/162. i don't know the official position there of the Thai government. For example equities purchased in year 2022, but sold in year 2025, ... are those considered savings? I supposed on could note the market value of those equities at close of business on Friday 29-Dec-2023 (or perhaps Sunday 31-Dec-2023, IF there is weekend trading?? ) ... and hence the value of those equities on 31-Dec might (and I emphasize might) be considered savings. But I do not know the official answer - my guess is they are NOT considered savings. However perhaps the year-2022 cash value used to purchase those equities might be considered savings? But again - I don't know. Clearly the cash was changed to equities, and equities are not nominally (IMHO) considered savings? or are are equities considered savings? I believe there has been debate on this, with different opinions held. ... But any cash position on 31-Dec-2023, is IMHO clearly savings, and as long as one has a spreadsheet and financial documents to show the money remitted to Thailand came from that cash, then I suspect one is on solid ground if audited. .

My view is many countries prefer taxation on residents (and not restricted to citizenship), because residents in a country use the services/facilities provided by the country's government. While non-residents in the most part do not use as much of the government services. Hence if one is a citizen, but a non-resident of the country, one is not using the government's services. Hence the view (of many governments) is in that case, if not using the government services (which is the case for non-residents), and especially if no income from the country where one is not a resident, there is no need to pay taxes to their country. Also, it can be a PIA and an expense, to track down citizens, who are no longer resident. However as we all know, some countries DO tax based on citizenship. Might there be more countries that wish to tax based on citizenship? Possibly, but I think the case for more governments wanting to impose taxation of global income based on residency is more likely. However opposing global taxation based on residency, for some countries, is the wealthy who contribute to the political parties, may have lots of money outside of the country. To push taxation of those resident people (in this example mostly citizens), could mean less money contributed to the political parties of the countries (as those very very wealthy citizens are opposed to global taxation). ... Which is not to say global taxation can not happen, but it does say there is likely money being spent (discretely contributed?) to oppose global taxation (IMHO) in cases. .

My suggestion for anyone who encounters this (with LTR visa) where the Bank claims an account can not be opened (as the bank does not call the LTR a long term visa), is to very very politely explain it is a MUCH MUCH "LONGER" term visa than a long term Visa. Note it is a 10-year visa, and politely suggest the bank branch check with their bank head office in Bangkok. Of course this being Thailand, a polite 'face saving' way has to be found to make the request that the Bangkok head office be queried. If the branch clerk or manager feels they will lose face, they may claim they are following head office policy (so to avoid the loss of face when they are in fact wrong) ... when in fact they are not following such main branch policy. This (trying to correct an innocent mistake) is IMHO always a tricky thing to do in Thailand. One can possibly also show the BoI webpage for the LTR visa, where it clearly shows how to open a Thailand bank account when on the LTR visa. And if one wishes to pursue further, one can contact BoI after (having been refused) and point out to BoI the bank branch that refuses to accept the LTR visa. That IMHO won't help one open one's account, but it may help others (on an LTR) as BoI may contact the Head office, to ensure word makes it down to the various bank branches. .

Rule out the combination method in practicse? I don't think so, as long as one is trying not to use a embassy certificate which is no longer available from the embassy and as long as one has regular foreign bank deposits to a Thai bank that meet the requirement.. Again, the Phuket immigration volunteer site notes the following as acceptable for a combination without an embassy income certificate: The above quote is from the Phuket immigration volunteer web site. Yes. Presumeably. I have never thou used such in my case when I was on the type-O nor type-OA. I used the 800k THB in a Thai bank method.

I suspect this depends on the immigration department. Years back when I was on a Type-OA and later a Type-O, Phuket immigration indicated they would drop by my condo, but they never set a date in advance. They stated they would phone prior to showing up. The few times they phoned, I was out of province. Then on my last occasion (on a Type-O) when they stated they would check on my residence, they did so by the "Line" social media app with a video chat. They set up a specific time the in the next couple of days when they would phone me. The phoned me, started a video chat, had me walk to the front door of my condo unit, and pause there while they did a screen shot (on their phone) of my face with my condo door #. Then they had me walk to the condo complex entrance, where they had me stand by the condo entrance sign, and again do a screen shot with my face and the condo entrance sign. That worked pretty good, it was relatively quick, and was far less disruptive than hosting them in my condo. Again, I suspect it depends on the immigration department, and further I suspect the policy changes from year to year.

Indeed. And so it has turned out (after POR.161/162) re: the separate and current BoI/RD interpretation re: LTR tax exemption. I don't have any predictions as to what may or may not transpire if, (major 'if' ) global taxation is ever introduced. I suspect there are some very wealthy and even more influential Thai who are opposed to any such change from remitted to global. As for those of us on the LTR visa, I suspect for many of us, the current DTAs between Thailand and our source income country may mean any potential/possible future change from remitted to global taxation won't have much of an impact on us (and for some others there could be an impact). But for now, the LTR-WP (at least in my case) is pretty good.

It was the BoI interpretation that was new. OK. BoI interpretation. I placed that in BOLD as you seem to have missed reading those words. BoI were queried at the start of the LTR visa and at that time they noted ALL remitted foreign income for LTR-WP, WGC, WFTP was tax exempt. OK? Again, BOI interpretation. OK? Further, the logic was, one does NOT pay tax in the current tax year, unless it is withholding tax (or unless one is remitting semi-annual tax return). If one is submitting annual tax returns, it is always the YEAR after the income is remitted that the tax return is submitted. Hence this makes such income "derived in the previous tax year" and hence the interpretation was that it was tax exempt. Show me one person who submits a tax return in the very same year in which it was earned. However BoI are now NOT using the words 'previous' tax year. The BoI interpretation is now 'remitted income from an other tax year different from the year in which the money is earned' is tax exempt. THAT is the new BoI interpretation. Again, my post was specific - BoI interpretation, where BoI have changed their interpretation. What part of Boi changing their interpretation do you not understand?

Different banks. Different policies. In the case of Canada, the Bank of Montreal nominally won't allow Canadians who are non residents of Canada to open an account and will not allow trading on BMO brokerage accounts. However Scotiabank and RBC will allow Canadians who are not residents of Canada to open accounts. My understanding is there is more paperwork for the banks which may explain policy differences. Questrade in Canada will allow Canadians who are not Canadian residents to open brokerage accounts. I suspect every country is a bit different.

In Phuket when I was on a Type-0A and later a Type-O, when applying for my yearly extension, I would ask the IO about my 90 day report ( if they didn’t automatically give me a piece of paper indicating when next 90 day repoert due).

I can't help but suspect that the person in Bangkok she spoke to was not knowledgeable with regard to Kasikorn policy - and may not have been the correct person in Kasikorn Bangkok main branch to chat with. I note you succeeded with another Kaskikorn branch ... where I suspect that individual (in the other branch) may have known of the correct policy (as opposed the first branch where they did not know). Clearly this is all very much speculation by me - but from what I understand from my wife's friend (who is a Krungsri branch manager), where this branch manager in a large shopping mall, that she regularly chats with and goes to lunch with the other different bank branch managers (there are 5 or 6 different banks in that shopping mall), is that branch managers need to be very careful if they do not follow their bank's central branch policy ... Some branch managers will 'take' a chance, but not all are inclined to do so. I have had this (curiosity about LTR) happen with Immigration officers, when entering Thailand. Where they called over other IO (from their booths, stopping momentary some airport immigration processing at other booths) to come over and look at the LTR visa stamp in my passport. Another example, when the local Transport office, reversed their decision (after initially refusing to give me an International driver's licence with me on an LTR visa), they asked if they could copy the various visa stamps in my passport, so to use it as a case study ( lol !! ). My passport had stamps of visa exempt, Type-OA, Type-OA extensions (both retirement & marriage), Type-O (retirement) , Type-O extensions, and the LTR-WP visa stamp. They stated they were going to put the photocopies of my passport's stamps in a local "training" booklet as a guide to their transport office staff. I suspect something as that may also be the case for Bank Branches, where they need some sort of procedure, or guide, so that they know based on which Visas they are allowed to permit bank accounts to be open. I am curious if others have experienced (in recent months) what you experienced with Kasikorn bank branches. When I (recently) opened up a new account with SCB bank, they not only knew of the LTR, but they insisted on seeing (and having a copy of) my "The Notification of qualification of Endorsement for Long Term Resident Visa" document, that all LTR visa holders get. ... The BoI web page says to expect that, but I failed to read that web page before hand (fortunately I had a copy on my smartphone). I was surprised that an SCB branch staff even knew about such a document. Clearly (IMHO) they (SCB) were better in updating central bank policy and then passing that information to various branches, than perhaps Kasikorn.

How long ago was it when you were denied opening an account in Kasikorn due to your LTR not being a non-immigrant visa? About a year ago (?) , when my wife was chatting to a Thai friend who at that time was a local branch manager of a bank in Phuket Central Festival shopping center, she advised she had only 'just' received approval from her bank HQ to allow foreigners on LTR to open Bank Accounts. She noted that most other bank branches in Central Festival had not yet been authorized to do so by their HQ bank in Bangkok (the local branch managers often go to lunch together and swap stories). Some bank branch managers may be more willing to take a risk (if HQ not yet authorized / changed procedure) than other bank managers. Sometimes, a very gentle and very very polite push back does wonders. Last year i was denied to get an International Driver's Licence (based on my Thai driver's licence) from the local Transport office (here in the province where i live in Thailand). We sat down with the head manager of that Transport office, and we agreed (1) i would contact BoI and advise them of the issue, and (2) they would contact the Transport office HQ and advise their procedure/rules did not allow them to provide an International Driver's licence to an LTR visa holder. Within a day, the Transport office called us back, and stated to come in and get the international driver's licence as Transport HQ approved such. Their 'procedure/rules' had not yet been updated. i suspect it the same for Kasikorn branch. Either the rules/procedures established by Kasikorn HQ had not been updated , or updated rules had not yet been circulated to the branch where you applied for an account. A very polite gentle push back, can sometimes help get the rules/procedures and circulation of such updated. Glad to read thou, you succeeded elsewhere.