billd766

46 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I note a lot of very biased opinions in this thread - the majority seem to replicate the same futile fight that has gone on for almost a century and is the root cause of the current conflict.

 

I doubt this matter will ever be solved and it certainly won't if both sides don't recognise each other's right to exist. The situation that brought about the current conflict in Gaza is very compilcated and subjective. History books may offer explanations, they don't offer solutions

 

There are two groups of people living in the same land but one group has no official legitimacy and is dominated by the other in many ways. Each group has a totally different religion which in the case of Israel, is also the basis of its governance, laws and traditions.  The Palestinians share the same non secular society type but have no real power or legitimacy in the eyes of Israel.

 

The attack on Israeli citizens by Hamas (and others) on 7th October was horrific by any standards and a heinous and horrific act of terrorism - nobody with half a brain can deny that.  However, as Antonio Guterres, Secretary General of the UN said shortly afterwards, it did not happen in a vacuum.  Many have sought to twist the meaning of his words since then but what he meant was that the increasingly shameful treatment of Palestinians by the Israelis was the reason and background to the attack - in no way did he mean it was an excuse for it.

 

Both sides have totally different requirements for the future - neither of which will ever happen, if only they could both recognise that.

 

The extremely right wing Israeli government of Benjamin Netanyahu, if allowed to entirely have its own way would clear the entire country, including the 'occupied territitories' of all Palestinian and other muslim minority groups.

 

The continued theft of land for 'settlements' (even last week) within the so called 'occupied territory' is just one piece of evidence against the current Israeli administration.

 

(Milder, less politic Israeli citizens believe that the Palestinians have rights and that the two groups can live together or at the very least, separated within the same borders.)

 

The Palestinian people simply want what we all want - somewhere to live and call home. Somewhere where we have rights and respect where we can make a living and raise our families.

 

However, there are various extremist Islamic groups who want the Israelis gone and have vowed to kill them all. Hamas is just one of those groups but it is the one that has had administrative control of Gaza.  Stoking that fire and providing arms to Hamas and others are radical muslim groups outside Israel in other countries - one in particular, Iran.

 

I don't believe either side will ever back down and accept the other but I don't see any possibility of a settlement that is not enforced on both sides by the International Community.

 

That's the crux of it, you can complicate matters by quoting from history but the facts are, we are where we are today - not where we were yesterday.

 

The problem with where we are today is that we have a powerful military force, reeking revenge on a largely unarmed population.  A force using the excuse of the 7th October Attack to cover their totally reckless disregard for Palestinian lives as they prosecute their 'war on Hamas'.

 

Where do I gain the right to state that?  Isn't it a fact that the 'collateral damage' that has resulted in the killing of over 30,000 people, mainly civilians is unpreventable in a war?  'Collateral damage' in my book is for example, when a bomb goes astray and kills or damages people or property without intention.  Is that really what's been happening?

 

There have been many, many examples of Israel's recklesness recently - just 3 of which are:

 

In December 2023 Israel killed three Israeli hostages that were waving white flags and calling for help.

 

Since October 2023 close to 200 humanitarian aid workers and doctors have been killed by Israeli attacks in Gaza.

 

The current debate about 7 aid workers being killed by a 'Tragic Error' on the part of the Israeli forces clearly illustrates Israel's dangeously reckless behaviour.  The attack by missiles fired from drones went on for several minutes and covered several kilometers as the aid workers frantically ran from car to car. Their clearly marked vehicles and route had been pre approved by the Israelis.  The Israelis are now claiming that it was dark and the markings on the aid vehicles could not be seen.

 

Really? Well then, surely if a target cannot be identified, it should not be attacked? Collateral damage?  I don't think so. I don't for one minute, think that Israel intended to kill aid workers but I do think they intended to kill the occupants of 3 vehicles which by their own admission, they could not indentify.  It must however, be remembered, that the Israelies knew that aid workers were in the area and would be moving along the route they did.

 

Israel has every right to rout and punish Hamas for the 7th October attack, what they don't have is the right to kill over 30,000 civillians and 200 aid workers and call it 'Collateral Damage' - its actually Collective Punishment which is totally against internationally recognised law.

 

Its sad that it has taken the killing of 7 aid workers before any serious condemation of Israel's actions by its allies has been made.

 

Israel's refusal to allow anything near the required amount of food and other humanitarian aid into Gaza until now is another crime that in my opinion has been part of the 'collective punishment' of the Palestinian people.  They claim that aid coming in through the Rafah crossing is being used by Hamas. Israel has controlled most of Northern Gaza since early on in the conflict - if they were worried that aid coming in through Rafah would fall into the hands of Hamas, why has it taken until now to open the Erez crossing in the North?

 

I support neither Israel nor Hamas - I support life, freedom and the right to live peacefully.  Will Israel achieve its aims and make its country safe for its citizens when it defeats Hamas in Gaza?  How many new 'terrorists' have been created by Israel's attrocities in this conflict?

 

Will there be more terrorist attacks on Israel or their citizens around the world when the Gaza war ends? For sure.

 

Will Hamas achieve its goal of destroying the Israeli state and killing all jews within the territory? Not a hope! Will thousands more Palestinians die over the coming months and years? Almost certainly.

 

Has Hamas achieved anything at all by carrying out the 7th October attacks?  Well actually, yes they have - they have focused the world's attention on the plight of the Palestinian people. It is also doubtful that Israel's actions so far will have caused any form of understanding amongst the people of Gaza.  Hatred is what they will have caused and you can be sure that groups such as Hamas will capitalise on that.

 

Would a 2 state solution work?  Possibly but only if its imposed and installed by the international community overall. A key factor of that imposition would have to be forcing Israel out of its 'settlements' and back behind previously agreed borders. However, as long as there are radical islamists in countries outside Israel - countries that are ruled according to religion and who do not accept the rights of a Jewish state to even exist, there will not be total peace.  Such countries can't even achieve peace within their own borders as their governments continue imposing their strict religious ways on increasingly intolerant populations.

 

A 2 state solution won't work either whilst Israel remains within the grip of Netanyahu's right will fanatics - however, the writing was on the wall for Netanyahu before this conflict began.  I don't think he or his group will be around for long once the war ends.

 

The world must no longer stand by and allow extremist Islamic groups to carry out terrorist attacks but neither can it do nothing when Israel stokes the fires that cause such attacks in the first place.

Thank you for an extremely well written article. 

I agree with every word.  

58 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Those Europeans kitchen workers killed were Hamas also

Really?

You are 100% certain of that, and have the evidence to prove it?

Then it should be easy for you to prove it. Just produce the evidence. The IDF and the Israeli government desperately need that 100% verified evidence.

11 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Much prefer to leave it up, proof of the veil slip by Danny.
 

You can also stop making things up, I never said anything about your posts. Link matey needed for that beauty.lol

Are you part of my family? Please don't tell me how, when or what I can post.

You can respond as many times as you wish, but I can't be bothered to answer your posts anymore. You are not worth wasting my time on.

On 4/6/2024 at 10:24 AM, Jingthing said:

That's a complex question.

Did they intend to kill the targets?

Obviously.

Did they know they were killing food aid workers?

Seems so. 

Should be investigated by an external party.

Did they think there were also Hamas targets?

Maybe.

Should be investigated by an external party.

Was this hit authorized at the highest levels?

Unknown.

Should be investigated by an external party.

Well according to the BBC the IDF enquiry results are in and published.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68742572

The IDF's investigation concluded that the army unit involved had believed the vehicles they were tracking from the sky had been taken over by Hamas gunmen, and that they were not aware of the coordination procedures put in place between the military and World Central Kitchen for that evening.

It also said they also did not know the cars belonged to the charity, and the three air strikes were in violation of the army's own procedures.

The evidence from the investigation has been passed to the Military Advocate General - the Israeli army's top legal authority - to determine if there has been any criminal conduct.

In addition, the army has sacked the major in charge of fire support. The brigade's chief of staff, a colonel, has also been sacked. The divisional commander, brigade commander and the general in charge of the IDF's Southern Command have been formally reprimanded.

Every poster can make their own mind up how true this is.

IF it is true, then it shows what a shambles the IDF with no information passing up or down the chain of command.

IF it is not true then it simply shows what a shambles the IDF is.

Worse than Fred Karno's army.

Personally, I believe the second.

For those who have no idea who Fred Karno was, look here.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fred+karno's+army+meaning&sca_esv=6702d8133b3a2eb3&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn09oniZ_XddAjwaKFYpP_p5zOcWfVg%3A1712474670933&source=hp&ei=LkoSZujnNoKQnesPztS20Aw&iflsig=ANes7DEAAAAAZhJYPgaSF9v-U0N8WrE-7jzP6T-sht1t&oq=fred+Karno'&gs_lp=Egdnd3Mtd2l6IgtmcmVkIEthcm5vJyoCCAEyCBAuGNQCGIAEMgUQABiABDIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIIEC4YgAQY1AIyBhAAGBYYHjIGEAAYFhgeMgYQABgWGB4yBhAAGBYYHkjEjQFQAFjCZ3AAeACQAQCYAXygAbwIqgEDOC4zuAEByAEA-AEBmAILoAK0CcICChAjGIAEGIoFGCfCAhEQLhiDARjHARixAxjRAxiABMICCxAuGIMBGLEDGIAEwgILEAAYgAQYsQMYgwHCAg4QLhiABBixAxjHARjRA8ICCBAAGIAEGLEDwgIEECMYJ8ICCBAuGIAEGLEDwgILEC4YgAQYsQMYgwHCAgUQLhiABMICCxAuGIAEGMcBGNEDwgIHEAAYgAQYCsICCxAuGIAEGMcBGK8BmAMAkgcDMi45oAe_mwE&sclient=gws-wiz

A type of chaotic organization, named for the comedian Fred Karno (1866–1941); his 'Army' was the company which gave a solid start or valuable experience to many comedians. 'We are Fred Karno's army, the ragtime infantry', perhaps referring to 'Kitchener's Army', was one of the trench songs of the First World War.

4 hours ago, Danny Australia said:

This explanation of the WCK massacre is incredibly unbelievable and nonsensical.

 

It was widely anticipated that Israel would simply concoct the findings, but the sheer brazenness of their deception took everyone by surprise.

 

The international community should reject these findings, and a UN-led team should conduct a thorough reinvestigation into the massacre, with participation from Israel and all affected countries.

 

This report's absurdity is reminiscent of the infamous incident at Al- Shifa hospital where the IDF claimed an Arabic language day-of-the-week calendar was actually a schedule for Hamas fighters shifts) 😂.

 

Israel thinks the world is a herd of sheep by keeping insulting our intelligence with their ongoing blatant lies and deception. 

 

To be honest, did you expect anything different, especially the real independent truth from anywhere controlled by Israel or the IDF.

The sad thing is that there are people, even here on ANN, that believe every word that comes from the Israeli government or the IDF is the pure unvarnished truth.

On 4/4/2024 at 8:13 PM, rexpotter said:

They have millions and millions of USD from customers tied up that people cannot get. Consider the folks who started it, they are from Lithuania, very close to Russia, and Slavic's themselves. A breakaway state. You can make your own assessment.

I did make my assessment.

I chose Wise back in 2018 and I have never regretted it at all.

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's a complex question.

Did they intend to kill the targets?

Obviously.

Did they know they were killing food aid workers?

Seems so. 

Should be investigated by an external party.

Did they think there were also Hamas targets?

Maybe.

Should be investigated by an external party.

Was this hit authorized at the highest levels?

Unknown.

Should be investigated by an external party.

But the investigation of the IDF by the IDF has already begun.

I could probably write the result now but you would only call it BS.

As for investigations by an external party. That will never be allowed by either the Israeli government or the IDF. They NEED to be able to control what they call information, but many other people call propaganda, which they can ONLY do, IF they have complete control.

That is one reason that they are trying to remove Al Jazeera reporters from Gaza.

https://rsf.org/en/103-journalists-killed-150-days-gaza-tragedy-palestinian-journalism#:~:text=The figure of 103 journalists,this continuing tragedy's appalling toll.

At least 103 journalists have been killed by Israeli strikes in Gaza in the past five months, according to the tally of one of the deadliest ever wars for the media compiled by Reporters Without Borders (RSF). At least 22 of these journalists were killed in the course of their work, RSF has so far established.

The figure of 103 journalists killed by the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) in five months of war in Gaza is a chilling one. Since 7 October, the day the war began, the names of the victims have been steadily added to this continuing tragedy’s appalling toll.

Journalists working for TV, radio, print media and multimedia, photographers and camera operators, 91 men and 12 women journalists of all ages, all Palestinians, are among this war’s victims. They were killed in different places in Gaza, from the north to the south and including Khan Yunis, showing how no part of the Gaza Strip offers a refuge for journalists.

 At least 22 of these journalists were killed in the course of their work or because of their work, according to the information so far collected by RSF. Many of them were reporting in the field and were clearly identifiable as journalists. Others were killed by strikes that specifically targeted their homes. RSF has twice referred the crimes committed against journalists by Israel to the International Criminal Court.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_journalists_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war#:~:text=Casualties,-See also%3A List&text=As of 5 March 2024,over 136 UNRWA aid workers.

As of 5 March 2024, over 31,000 people (30,228 Palestinian[10] and 1,410 Israeli[18]) have been reported as killed in the Israel–Hamas war, including 94 journalists (89 Palestinian, 2 Israeli and 3 Lebanese) and over 136 UNRWA aid workers.[19][20]

On 7 October 2023, 1,139 Israelis and foreign nationals, including 764 civilians, were killed, and 248 persons taken hostage during the initial attack on Israel from the Gaza Strip.[11][21][22] Since then, over 30,228 Palestinians (the majority of whom were women and children) in the Gaza Strip have been killed according to the Gaza Health Ministry. The total death toll in Gaza is presumed to be higher than reported,[23][24] with thousands remaining unaccounted for, including those trapped under rubble.

Yet only two Israeli journalists have been killed

This Songkran is the same as all the other Songkran's.

It is simply a way of making money, wasting billions of litres of water down the drain and bears no resemblance to the real Songkran.

It appeals to stupid people, I know, I was one years ago in Bangkok and my early days in rural Thailand, and to children. I don't mind the children playing as it is fun for them.