rubl

Agreed I feel it can never be the sharp edge head to head 'debate' some appear to be hoping for, I would suggest questions that will allow each participant the opportunity to put forward their plans for the future of Thailand.

We already got the 'party statements' and other propaganda from all involved.

Recent statistics reveal that 59% approx of Thai voters would like a TV 'debate' to identify the policiof the candidates and assist their decision in which party to choose.........but as long as you are comfortable with the information you have received......you will be able to cast your vote accordingly.....

Thai voters would like a 'debate', but you feel it cannot be 'the sharp edge' some hope for. Well, let's just give it a try. Party political programs we've got already.

As for me ...... comfortable with information ...... to cast a vote ...... as farang in Thailand?

The 'discussion' we have had here ...... isn't really improving ...... I think. May I conclude and sign off ...... with words similar as a ...... worthy opponent here once used 'have a lollipop, now be a good boy and hop along'

Your last reply suggests you do not think there will be a debate.

There won't be a debate. A debate will cause someone to lose face. No one will allow that.

Agreed I feel it can never be the sharp edge head to head 'debate' some appear to be hoping for, I would suggest questions that will allow each participant the opportunity to put forward their plans for the future of Thailand.

We already got the 'party statements' and other propaganda from all involved.

And if she does debate, as I think she will, I feel I have a better understanding of exactly what the TV station is trying to achieve than you....

Of course if Yingluck does debate all the snyde remarks may well look quite nonsensical........I guess nothing changes............

Now would you care to point out where this is a political statement?.......I post more about the eccentric posting habits of Tvisa members than politics, an area where as a foreigner I am under no illusion as to my contribution.......you had not observed this?.......

Anything you write can and will be used against you including your eccentric posting habits

Now let's go back to the OP: "Abhisit ready for political debate with Yingluck".

Till now still no indication that such a debate will take place. If it took place, lots of remarks here could get a 'reality' check. Nothing really unexpected with personal opinions and speculation

Rubl.....read the format of the 'debate' suggested, think just a little bit, the TV station will not get participation if any of the contributors will end up appearing in a bad light. So what track do you think the 'debate' will take.

Perhaps the participants responses will appear to be so good, people may even draw the conclusion they may well have known the questions in advance

Ok I admit only speculation......

Your last reply suggests you do not think there will be a debate.

And if she does debate, as I think she will, I feel I have a better understanding of exactly what the TV station is trying to achieve than you....

Of course if Yingluck does debate all the snyde remarks may well look quite nonsensical........I guess nothing changes............

Now would you care to point out where this is a political statement?.......I post more about the eccentric posting habits of Tvisa members than politics, an area where as a foreigner I am under no illusion as to my contribution.......you had not observed this?.......

Anything you write can and will be used against you including your eccentric posting habits

Now let's go back to the OP: "Abhisit ready for political debate with Yingluck".

Till now still no indication that such a debate will take place. If it took place, lots of remarks here could get a 'reality' check. Nothing really unexpected with personal opinions and speculation

Is this a Democrat supporters chat room?

It is an anti PTP chat room...

Anyone can participate, that includes farangs who cannot even vote in Thailand and of course some fools and other idiots. We're quiet democratic in that aspect

Moral stature also rose from 9.8% to 15.9 %

Shouldn't that be 'moral pygmy'?

What has she done that deserves such derogatory remarks...is it just because she belongs to the Thaksin family....

If you dislike Thaksin go after HIM...

Maybe he did. Isn't k. Yingluck a clone of k. Thaksin ?

Let me make it easy for you Rubl.......do you think the peace will be restored in the south, unless all parties involved have been given access to process that will resolve the situation?

I wasn't aware the topic 'Pheu Thai red-shirts mock peace talk' had anything to do with the problems down South. The OP says

"All signs are pointing to more time of uncertainty and instability. Either a Democrat-led government or a Pheu Thai-led coalition will not bring about much-craved political peace. Even if "No" (abstention) votes are cast in a number big enough to draw attention, Thai politics is unlikely to calm down."

Yep I guess there will be more time of uncertain stability in the south, perhaps the PTP inclusion of the red shirt representatives will allow a reconciliation in the north, may even help formulate a process to eventually resolve the issues in the south

You still didn't tell me who those 'reactionaries' are, not that it really matters, you'll probably keep swinging between North and South.

The OP discusses some aspects of PTP's inclusion of UDD leaders. In the North that's just confirmation of what many there seem to want, nothing to do with reconciliation. That does NOT suggest a possible positive effect on reconciliation between 'opposing' parties. In all this the problems down South are not even mentioned. It's between opposing political parties, more specific PTP and Dem's.

Let me make it easy for you Rubl.......do you think the peace will be restored in the south, unless all parties involved have been given access to process that will resolve the situation?

I wasn't aware the topic 'Pheu Thai red-shirts mock peace talk' had anything to do with the problems down South. The OP says

"All signs are pointing to more time of uncertainty and instability. Either a Democrat-led government or a Pheu Thai-led coalition will not bring about much-craved political peace. Even if "No" (abstention) votes are cast in a number big enough to draw attention, Thai politics is unlikely to calm down."

It may be a hard fact to swallow, but if reactionaries are not seen to be fully involved in any reconciliation process, the process is almost sure to fail

An example of this type of inclusion is the northern Ireland peace process where Sinn Fein were encouraged to take up political representation

Just to get things clear in my mind, can you be a bit more specific in who you call 'reactionaries' ? As it stand it could be almost anyone, or any group

Speaking in Chiang Mai, the Pheu Thai's stronghold, Yingluck said the Party would not discriminate against any Party and would select those who have ideologies and solutions that could solve national problems.

I think she's said this to alleviate the fears that some people in power now would feel if Thaksin ever did make a comeback.

Possibly futile in today's political climate, but it's just traditional old-style Thai politics the type of which has been observed in the aftermath of many political upheavals over the years.

I do not understand the need to 'alleviate the fears'. K. Thaksin had said repeatedly

2010-09-10

"Me? Plot revenge? No way, says Thaksin"

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/09/12/politics/Me-Plot-revenge-No-way-says-Thaksin-30137794.html

2011-05-16

""If Pheu Thai wins the elections, it will not seek any revenge," Thaksin said"

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/16/2218700/ousted-thai-leaders-sister-named.html

2011 May

"Thaksin said the party's supporters, backed by the red shirt movement, will have to forgive and forget. The Abhisit government and the administration which supports it should have no reason to fear.

"Pheu Thai Party, and in particular our red shirt supporters, have suffered the most [from the political unrest].

"If those who have suffered the most can accept things and let things be, and not think about retribution, then achieving resolution will be easier," Thaksin said.

"After the election, after Pheu Thai wins, it has to be clear that there will be no retribution taken.

"Those who have suffered, forgive and forget and look forward together to the future.""

http://www.cambodiatodayz.com/2011/05/thaksin-rejects-revenge-supporters-will.html

With PTP not discriminating against any Party and selecting to work with those who have ideologies and solutions that could solve national problems, we have discussed the important parts of the PTP policies (amnesty for all deserving, bring Thaksin home, etc.).

Can we now start with the more mundane, simple things like economy, social improvements, entitlement of the poor, educational system and the like ?

Copyright © 2011 Universal Press Syndicate

There is I believe an intended oilseed subsidy, and intended fertiliser subsidy for second crop rice, did these measures get pushed through?

Just to let you know most poorer farmers are on land that will only carry enough water for one crop.

The latest fertiliser subsidy was approved on the 4th/5th of May 2011. At that time is was said that the government estimated total fertiliser usage of 2.3 million tonnes over the next three to four months, comprising 1.8 million tonnes for rice and 500,000 tonnes for maize and tapioca. The plan was aimed to cover 70 million rai of first-crop paddy cultivation and 20 million rai of maize and tapioca.

Thanks Rubl

and the benefit being, the fertiliser manufacturers are allowed to raise the prices, the government take up any increase, the farmer is actually no better off, but no worse off......correct?

The greatest benefit being some fools and other idiots can continue asking if their assumptions are right and complain the government is either doing nothing or just helping friends.

Present company excluded of course

Apologies for repetition, but I beleieve Thaksin will be very relieved to see Jatuporn in jail until the election is over. He doesn't want him out, shooting his mouth off, perhaps getting the party into trouble, presenting an image of an angry party out for revenge.

Much better to have his sweet, softly spoken clone wandering around Thailand, mouthing empty platitudes about reconciliation for all.

Great post.I hadn't thought of it quite like that but now you have articulated it I think you must be right.

And with k. Jatuporn on position 7 of the PTP party list for MP candidates he is bound to return as MP which implies a new bail request will lead to release on the grounds of his parliamentary immunity. So after the elections he can be his usual self again

Apisit went to Nong Khai province but as soon as the reds heard he was there they sent a contingent off to harrass and drive him away.And as for Chiang Mai, there's quite a history of leading Democrats facing physical assault there.

He's done more for farmers than Thaksin ever did, his crop subsidy scheme has reached far more farmers, especially the rice farmers, than Thaksin's mortgage project which helped the millers.

There is I believe an intended oilseed subsidy, and intended fertiliser subsidy for second crop rice, did these measures get pushed through?

Just to let you know most poorer farmers are on land that will only carry enough water for one crop.

The latest fertiliser subsidy was approved on the 4th/5th of May 2011. At that time is was said that the government estimated total fertiliser usage of 2.3 million tonnes over the next three to four months, comprising 1.8 million tonnes for rice and 500,000 tonnes for maize and tapioca. The plan was aimed to cover 70 million rai of first-crop paddy cultivation and 20 million rai of maize and tapioca.

Yingluck Shinawatra, who is at the top of Pheu Thai's party list, yesterday defended the decision to place red-shirt leaders high on the candidate list - in a safe zone and in places higher than those of many incumbent MPs.

She said that the party had considered many factors and that the decision had resulted from the party's decision-making mechanism. She added that it was approved by the party's executive board.

It warms the cockles on my heart to read that explaining a ballot number is much more important than providing a wee bit more details on 'many factors' and 'party's decision-making mechanism' apart from being 'approved by the executive board', so why you ask? Who needs a democracy and democratic procedures anyway

Ho ho ho, these crazy-ass Shinawatras can't seem to get anything right, can they? And yet they're STILL gonna get millions upon millions of votes...

As a taxi driver told me yesterday 'Abhisit looks good, but what's inside him? Thaksin same, but at least we got money'

Sounds like Abhisit's PR machine has missed someone there. I thought a year ago everyone was saying that the government's got loads of good policies for addressing the grievances of rural poor, it's just that the rural poor don't KNOW about them. They've had a year to get the message across and we'll soon see how effective it was.

Thank God for elections

I don't want to sound too pedantic and I may have mis-understood the taxi driver, but I really got the impression he said 'at least we got money' as in getting rather than working for

Ho ho ho, these crazy-ass Shinawatras can't seem to get anything right, can they? And yet they're STILL gonna get millions upon millions of votes...

As a taxi driver told me yesterday 'Abhisit looks good, but what's inside him? Thaksin same, but at least we got money'

This is getting ridiculous. Remember Abhisit telling people not to use the lese majeste law for political gain, well you can throw that out of the window.

From the 26th April 2009 to May 2nd 2011 many things have happened which can explain the shift. I'm not saying it justifies the shift, but it does explain the shift.

Note that to put emphasize on the LM law and it's alleged misuse also tends to shift attention from other laws and the use of them.

As for remembering, how many times did k. Thaksin say he'd stay away from politics, how many times 'I don't know red-shirts', how many times did he sue people for billions of Baht because they said or wrote something he didn't like?

How about sharing part of the blame, or is that too close for comfort

Yingluck is being completely disingenuous. She knows dam_n well that amnesty will not result in peace. The only result it will have is another coup at best, and civil war at worst. Let us hope the PT are trounced soundly at the ballot box so we might finally have some real peace in this country.

I don't like the 'another coup at best', on the other hand having a taxi driver tell me today 'another civil war with people shooting each other may still come after the elections' doesn't sound good either. With Ms. Yingluck's 'amnesty will restore peace, but it's not a priority' we're not going in the right direction it seems

(edit: add: personally I also do not believe amnesty will restore peace, let's be clear about that)

EC: Yingluck still qualified despite perjury allegation

On the other hand, he noted that it would be a different story if the candidate was given a jail sentence as the EC would need to reconsider her qualifications. Moreover, any complaints received over the perjury case would also be taken into account.

-- NNT 2011-05-20

I have such a strange feeling that there will be a sentencing close to the poll date.

I think the case will not progress as long as one of the main accused is not available. Mind you k. Thaksin has gone on record to return before the end of the year

strange how in the OP the person changes from the convicted (but not serving his sentence) criminal Sondhi to the Army General that instigated, and then led an illegal coup, followed by a threat to accept the new constitution absolving him of any blame or the army would stay in power.

easy mistake to make, both criminals, although the latter has since said the biggest mistake made was not continuing Thaksins populist policies, so at least he ha admitted mistakes, not like the narcissist sondhi.

As for the election, it is clear the dems know they will not win a fair election so skulduggery is afoot, with the database etc, the refusal to allow foreign observers etc, then again they know if he do lose the elite will do all in their power to get rid of the PTP on some trumped up charges to get their buddies the dems back into power. the dems have been no better that TRT with their electoral frauds, their escape from punishment for misusing funds, and of course for overseeing the slaughter of unarmed civilians in bangkok, as I said at the time either abhisit ordered it, or has been complicit in whitewashing it, or was not in control of the country, do we really need person like that in power, lest face it he could not win the power.

Nice random like post, many things thrown together, difficult to react on without needing to break it down in bits and pieces to show which are relevant and which not.

So let's only clarify an obvious redundancy. An 'illegal coup' suggest that there are legal coups.

Anyway did you get stuck in the office, or are you using the opportunity to mingle with fellow reds ?

it is better to use the words 'illegal coup' as many on here still seem to be confused.

mingle with fellow reds?? have you decided that I am a red? thanks for that, maybe you can decide other things for me as well based on your lack off any knowledge about me or what makes me tick, well done you.

as for the relevance of the post, it is all relevant if you read it and digest it rather than rushing in to write a post just to try and discount it based on who wrote it rather than the content, again well done you. Have a lollipop

I apologize, with your post history I shouldn't have said 'fellow red-shirts', 'fellow anti-current-(caretaker-)government' would be more accurate.

Thanks for the lollipop, my little niece really likes them

PS Who wrote it, yes ... well ... I've got a reasonable memory, former member of the English police force as you wrote a few times )

related topic:

Yingluck: Amnesty Will Restore Peace In Thailand

Follow this link:

hypocrisy within its own thread.

In essence, "It's not a priority, but it will restore peace."

Any way it's spun, it comes out as gobbledygook.

Yingluck is off and running.... at the mouth.

My dear buchholz, you've got it all wrong!

Obviously it should be "Amnesty will restore peace, but it's not a priority"

May I predict that this thread will eventually resemble some sort of poll with hordes of posters agreeing with this opinion piece and also themselves?

May I predict that this post will draw a few members who will say something against other posters here who happen to agree with the OP; and at the same time those members will keep quiet on the issue raised in the OP.

I stayed in the area last summer during a red shirt rally - no thugs, no violence. Speaches, lot's of people & some blocked traffic - no big deal since (1) it's a tiny corner of BKK (2) no problem at all if you take a motorbike taxi (& we did...), & (3) have you ever seen Paeis during a "manifestation"?

The red shirt party has every right to be out on the streets.

Regarding the stores, ... we're talking highend European luxery goods - (1) they are doing just fine, no need to worry about them (2) the irony of Farang worrying about these businesses is amazing as 99% of THAI people can't afford to shop there. As for pratunam & the small/street shops, they had no lack of customers when I was there last summer.

Cheers

Tom

Well Tom, just like you I was lucky, I missed the April 22nd grenade attack on BTS Saladaeng by a few hours. In May my (Thai) boss told me to stay away from the office (U Chu Liang on RamaIV opposite Lumpini). Makes you wonder if you really were in Bangkok during the April May 2010 period.

Of course I would never dream of accusing a fellow TV member of talking b_llsh_t, but your post brings me close