welovesundaysatspace

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You asked My Thai Life for evidence of lies and I have added some more.

 

Now you change your question.

I didn’t change the question. My Thai Life responded to Macron calling the Leave campaign liars that the EU has been constantly lying to European citizens. I am still waiting for him to produce any evidence. 

13 minutes ago, OJAS said:

In future I suggest that you check your facts before making kneejerk accusations against others for spreading nonsense.

Quite amusing how you accuse me of “kneejerk accusations” and suggest to “check your facts” while you fail to provide any evidence for the claim that “The Irish (...) had to vote again until they got it right in the eyes of the EU commissioners.” It’s pure nonsense; we could even say it’s an outright lie that “the EU commissioners” had any say in Ireland’s referendums.

Ireland is a sovereign state. They alone decided to hold a second referendum. In that Second Referendum, the Irish electorate alone decided to vote for the ratification of the treaty. If you want to blame anyone, then it is Ireland alone. 

9 minutes ago, aright said:

How about the EU's Maastricht Treaty which says member states are not allowed to bail out other member states. 

Article 122 of the Maastricht treaty states: when a member-state 'is in difficulties or is seriously threatened with severe difficulties caused by natural disasters or exceptional occurrences beyond its control, the Council [of national governments], on a proposal from the Commission, may grant, under certain conditions, Union financial assistance to the member-state concerned.

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Here's a few more quotes, some showing this deception but others showing the political and economic reality of the EU.

All they show is the personal opinion of the respective person. It’s like making an accusation, then quoting your buddy saying the same and calling that evidence. 

My question still hasn’t been answered: Whereas the Leave campaign clearly lied to its people, where is the evidence proving that the EU lied to European citizens? After all, this is how the discussion started; Macron calling out the Brexiteers doe lying, someone else claiming the EU did that as well. 

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

How about the other 27 countries in the EU being given the chance of a referendum and a vote on whether the EU should stay as it is, become a federal super state or go back to being a common market as it used to be? (...) After all it would be the democratic thing to do, wouldn't it?

May I also have a say in tax rates and annual budget? And how about drug laws, labor laws, and my idea that people should eat more healthy? I want a referendum for all those things. 

See, that’s not how a representative democracy works. 

If people don’t want to stay in the EU, they can vote for a government that triggers article 50 to exit the EU. They have the opportunity every 4 (?) years.  That’s how democracy works. 

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

The Irish did that a while ago and had to vote again until they got it right in the eyes of the EU commissioners.

Stop spreading nonsense. 

55 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

 I think the simple definition that you propose is not sufficient.

I didn’t propose a simple definition. It is what you can find in every dictionary and how people have defined lying for ages.

That definition is sufficient for describing the situation of someone deliberately making a false statement to deceive someone which was the case with Brexit and, therefore, correctly pointed out by Macron.

The fact that you cannot find any lies made by the EU and therefore need to frame other things as lying (which clearly are not) doesn’t change that.

Quote

deliberate witholding of critical information over a period of 70 years in accordance with a gameplan laid down by Monnet can hardly be said to be honest.

(...) the EU's 70 year campaign of deception (...)

That’s a ridiculous conspiracy theory lacking any factual evidence. I’ve asked you a few times now already to provide evidence for this, yet still all you have is that dead guy and your ridiculous claim that 60 years later he’s pulling the strings from his grave.

Quote

If you want to use semantics to support your state of denial that's your choice.

I had to explain you what a lie is because you were trying to blame someone of lying who wasn’t. You wouldn’t like it either if someone called you a liar because: “Look, I don’t want to get into semantics here. Your simple definition of a lie just isn’t sufficient. So you’re a liar because I define it that way.”

3 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

The fact that lies were told in the UK does not invalidate the fact that lies have been told by EU leaders.

Yet you fail to show us any of those lies but keep getting back to the phantasies of a guy who died long before the EU was founded. Let me be clear: I don’t care of a dead guy’s playbook. I care about the present. 

3 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

 successive EU leaders have worked to that same playbook, as you can see by the more recent quotes from Juncker, Macron et al.

I don’t support what Juncker says in the quotes you provided with regards to not drawing people’s attention to difficult decisions. Even though I think it’s common playbook of all politicians around the world, I completely disagree to such practice. 

But it’s something different than lying. A lie is false statement, deliberately being made to deceive someone. 

You claimed the EU did that continuously and I want to see examples that prove this claim. 

23 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

Well if quotes spanning 70 years from EU founders and leaders all supporting Monnet's original statment of deceit is not enough then maybe you should read some books about the history of the EU.

You were the one claiming the EU constantly lied to European citizens, so

I expect you to provide evidence for your claims. If it’s in a book, you may provide the author, title and page of your source. 

What you’ve provided so far doesn’t prove the EU lying to European citizens. What are those lies; what are the false or largely inaccurate statements made by the EU with the deliberate intent to deceive Europeans? For example, A lie is something like “350M per week for the NHS”. 

It certainly cannot be statements from a guy who died long before the EU actually existed. That’s ridiculous. 

14 hours ago, vinegarbase said:

Mohammadan simply means follower of Mohammad which is all they are (...) If I have to be the one to bring back the proper term and educate others then so be it. 

Before you try to “educate others”, make sure you’re getting the facts right:

Mohamed is not the Muslims’ god. Muslim’s don’t worship Mohamed. That’s why calling them Mohammadan is incorrect. 

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

wasn't the lady recently in southern Africa ensuring some trade stuff?

If that’s significant for the U.K. now then good luck. 

2 hours ago, Walter Travolta said:

Its the EU that are playing stupid games because they want to keep us there at all costs.

I understand some people when they realize they fxxxed up big times they flee into denial and try to find someone else to blame. Given the sheer size of this desaster you created and all the arrogance around it (“easiest deal in history” etc.) I can see you need that now. But, come one, do you really think anyone has forgotten who left the EU, who talked big about how easy and wonderful everything would be, and what a great deal he would secure?

2 hours ago, Walter Travolta said:

Its called making new trade deals and if you are so conceited to think there arent other countries out there to make trade deals with then you have just shown your stupidity.

Tell me one significant trade deal the U.K. has secured since then? 

2 hours ago, Walter Travolta said:

The EU are acting like headmasters in a 19th century school basically telling us that our 'homework' is not good enough each time we present it!!

If that’s how you look at a negotiation then you certainly have other problems than just Brexit. By the way, no one asked for your homework, you’re free to not submit any more, especially since it’s just wasting people’s time. 

2 hours ago, citybiker said:

They EU ‘only’ wants a deal on its terms

Oh, really? Newsflash. 

You really live in lala-Land. 

2 hours ago, citybiker said:

 to protect itself from further incompetent backlash, safeguard Dublin & most important of all deter others considering the same route as the U.K.

That was clear from the beginning on. Everyone told you so, yet still you’re coming back with the same ridiculous proposals wasting everyone’s time.

10 hours ago, Rally123 said:

It's available online.

Seems like you don’t understand the difference between 1 month and 14 days. Anyway, as I said: report back here after you did it. 

5 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

2017 13 native german people have been murdered by asylum seeker .

So 388 people have been killed by non-asylum seekers. Maybe you should focus your attention on them if you’re serious about the safety of people (and it’s not just smokescreen to create hatred against asylum seekers). 

1 minute ago, My Thai Life said:

A day or two ago Canterbrigian posted a series of quotes made by EU leaders over the last few decades. I myself posted the original statement of deceit from Monnet which formed the playbook for the EU's concerted and deliberate deceit of the last 70 years; and I also posted one of the most recent - from Juncker, echoing his hero Monnet.

I haven’t seen any evidence posted here that would prove a “concerted and well-documented campaign of lies to the European people”. 

1 minute ago, My Thai Life said:

Your preceding lines about the EU saying there was never going to be a deal is incorrect. Tusk and Barnier have offered a Free Trade deal.

Please check again what I wrote. 

4 hours ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

 

Well, I guess that your membership would be cancelled and that would be it.   No paying for future financial commitments of the phone company or the Gym, whether or not contracted for during your membership.

Please go to Virgin tomorrow and sign a 12-months gym membership. Then cancel it after 1 month and tell them “that’s it”. Please report back here. 

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

The attitude of the EU towards Brexit reminds me of the chorus of a song called Jobsworth from 1973 by Jeremy Taylor. My apologies Jeremy and you were a great singer.

 

"

Jobsworth, jobsworth; it's more than my job's worth.
I don't care, rain or snow, whatever you want - the answer's no!
I can keep you standing, for ...years in the queue,
And if you don't like, you know what you can do! (You can lump it!)

You know what ... you ... can ... do!

If you don’t transfer 100,000 Baht to my account immediately your attitude towards me would remind me of the same. 

7 minutes ago, dpspike said:

 My only question for her would be, "so it wasn't a crime until he was nominated?" 

If that’s your only question it shows you have a pretty messed up understanding of the law. 

7 minutes ago, dpspike said:

Women who wait years to report these things detract from the credibility of those women who do report offenses promptly

Only in your opinion. Others have something called empathy which enables them to understand why a woman who encountered rape or sexual abuse might hold back with speaking out about it. 

7 minutes ago, dpspike said:

Of course, the liberal American media hasn't been concerned with credibility for a long time.

And I thought the serial liars and fake news producers Trump and Fox News are republican. 

7 minutes ago, dpspike said:

Ninety percent of the American news is nothing but drama and innuendo.

99% of the White House is nothing but drama and innuendo.