puipuitom

6 hours ago, englishoak said:

All health systems will become overwhelmed unless they flatten the curve to a manageable level.

Means: start with a lockdown, as the Chinese, South Koreans and Taiwanese tought the world. But in Italy... 11 small cities + villages.. were as open as an Emmenthaler cheese. Even a Slovanian TV crew went in and out, showing people to go out their zone for shopping.Sat 22 Feb all was over Europe on TV alls curiosity had to be satisfied, money to earn. Result: already over 4800 dead in North Italy and climbing per day, in this line crossing the 1000/day line maybe Tuesday 24 March. Infection all over Europe from returning sky-holiday makers. 

Boris the Liar even ignored all warnings. I am afraid I have to congratulate his governement by "cleaning up" the UK from many older& sicks.

3 hours ago, Ian Nagle said:

So all these years of dual pricing to farangs has gone unoticed by Trading Standard Officers then.

This is sales to Thai...

3 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

and again this is why it is so important for white farangs to wear a mask in public to show solidarity with Thai people in their battle with the virus. 

it has nothing to do with your beliefs about how effective a mask is.   

Thais are scared now.

Where can I buy ANY mask ? ? ? 

8 hours ago, Logosone said:

Sadly it was too late. European governments, rather than waiting for cases in their own country and then closing the borders should have closed the borders as soon as China announced cases in December. That was the only way. 

In the democratic madhouses nobody would have followed this up, see the quarantaine in Northern Italy and the present governmental warnings.

4 hours ago, EricTh said:

The total number of infected and death cases in Europe have already passed China a week or two ago.

 

China is equivalent to the whole of Europe combined in terms of land size and double the population in Europe.

 

China population = 1,400 million

Europe population = 740 million

 

Each province in China is equivalent to a country in Europe in terms of population and land size.

To compare based on number of country is the same as comparing a bicycle with a huge truck.

And as next: the Chinese gov'm simply ordered medical staff + equipment to be sent to these areas. Imagine: medical staff from .. Finland, Ireland, Portugal, Cyprus were sent to Lombardia – N-Italy.

12) Mouth masks, protective clothing, ketonatus alcohol for disinfection gets.. for so far still produced... was NOT exported ( and as capitalistic countries ( EU c.s.) outsourced these all, nearly nothing available in the EU. And if... the EU member states confiscated everything on their soil: Germany, France, Belgium...

3) When the CEO of China Inc. decides to allocate whatever ( build an emergency hospital in 10 days) it happens. In the democracy all have to do their talking, evaluation, discussion, conferencing, etc. In a WAR ( Pres Macron) you need ONE commander-in-chief, and not 27 captains

In China quarantine was even enforced with fire arms. In Italy, these 11 small cities/villages... even a Slovenia TV crew went in and out, sold their report to many, even Sat 22 Feb on Dutch RTL TV. Consumers left theri area for shopping. End when the real <deleted> broke out, many fled away into the rest of Italy and over Europe. THEN the economic impact could heve been small, now we have a catastropy over the entire world.

Remind the classic Hellenistic tyrants, in absolute charge over the democracy in case of disaster ! 

10 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

Working under these conditions to help the infected to survive is truly an heroic act .

I really hope that these healthcare workers won't get infected themselves .

To achieve that, 2 main points have to be fulfilled:

a) they need sufficient and good quality food to boost their resistance, so.. supermarket bosses: take care for our medical heroes they never find empty shelves

b) When you want somebody to win YOUR fight: give them the right arms, in this case protective clothes, mouth caps, desinfection gels. Even when this has to come out of your ptrivate stock. YOU might need it MAYBE next week, next month or never, THEY need it today to kill the virus thread for your next week/month. Be selfish.. help them first.

8 hours ago, bangkokbonecollector said:

The whole world needs to offer free healthcare for anyone who is infected with the Chinese virus. If anyone is to foot that bill it is China...the creators of this virus. Yes, they created this virus through their complete and utter disregard for sanitised market environments. This isn't even the first time this has happened either!

When the rest of the world had closed their borders for all Chinese end of Dec, probably nothing would have been spread outside China.

When in Italy the quarantine was followed up, and not as now: As open as an Emmenthaler cheese, with a TV crew from Slovenia in, , make a report and out again, with even on Dutch television Sat 22 Feb at 19:30 on screen, showing people from the quarantine area doing outside their area shopping, the virus would not have been spread so much.

The REAL worry should be th USA, where a 30 million people cannot afford to stay away from work, as they need the income to survive. Have no medical insurance, so.. will continue to spread the disease till they die.

In Europe, no one shall be without money to survive, nobody has no medical support. 

Why the USA did not set this up ?  Why rediculous fees are charged at level the max a market can bear ( US$ 0,5 million for a helicopter rescue, US$ 10.000 for an ambulance trip, US$ 5 to the pationt, but US$ 500 to his employer) and a medical insurance twice the amount as at average in Europe ? ? Ask the US politicians + voters for at least the last 50 years.

29 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

I have read an estimate that 8% to 9% of people over 80 in the US will die.  However, I suspect your real question is not how likely you are to die, but how to survive.  I can answer that question.  Stay home.  Do not go out for any reason, if at all possible. Limit the people you let in to no more than a few close friends/family.  Order grocery deliveries to your home.  Pay bills online only.  

 

If you can keep to this program you will still be alive asthma and all when it is over sometime between a few months from now and two years or so.  Once you go out that door you will be subject to those percentages you mention.

My hope is to end up at the end of the infection line, with already a succesful anti-medicine to work. To stay forever out of the line to be infected.... how long ever I stay at home... does not work.

Pity.

Remind the Columbus exchange: 90-95 % of all indiands died, not by the diseases itsself, but.. because nobody to go for hunt to bring "food on the table". ( De Sosa in what is now Luisiana and around ) 

8 hours ago, LomSak27 said:

These Are the same people who said don't bother with masks. Now masks are not 100 per cent effective but not surprisingly they are effective. And the reason that this health agency and many others in Europe and North America came out with this sage piece of health advice was

. .... Wait for it ... 

 

That did not have enough masks for health workers who needed them. 

Where in Europe you want to get any mask ? The Chinese, being nearly the only mass producer, did not export anything for 2 months. I hope the EU governments ( and others) learnt one thing: strategic goods.. be sure at leat 50% is prduced in your own area / country / EU

See : https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/editienl/artikel/5059491/noodkreet-huisartsen-lever-mondkapjes-corona family docters in Netherlands ask their patients.. if they even have even a dust mask at home... please hand it to your doctor. YOU MIGHT need it next week, next month or maybe even never, but your doctor... needs it TODAY ! 

In Belgium an order of 5 million masks order acceptance was a fake, and the half million to arrive 16th March, only 100.000 arrived, thanks to Alibaba.

10 hours ago, UbonThani said:

Inject everyone with a weak strain say 10% of the top. Build up basic immunity.

And where you get that "weak strain" from ? ? 

And I presume, you voluntarily will be one of that top 10% to get this totally experimental injection? 

Always nice to read comments from people, who think to know it better als al microbiologists on this planet together.

9 hours ago, swissie said:

2 years? An infection rate of 70% required to immunize enough people to break the cycle?

Great. That would eliminate 30 % of pensioners, thus saving Pension-Funds, Social-Security Concepts in distress from going under.

Perfect, one problem solved.

Merkel said: 60 million ( out of the 80 mln) Germans will get the disease.

The Dutch PM, Mr Rutte, said Monday (at the first broadcastr to the nation in 47 years of a Dutch PM) he expected 60% of all Dutch to get the disease. A Dutch microbiologic Prof at Erasmus Uni and adviser to teh government confirmed: with the present knowledge, 1-2% casualties, so yeas, for NL, that will be a 40-80.000 dead.

When we had a 1000 people officially confirmed, a 120 at intensive care and with a 25 casualties, one head of the gocv. health system estimated, already 6000 Dutch had the disease. 

What I would like to know: how much chance for persons above 70, and how much chance with people with alrerady a lung problem, like me with astma.

So... imagine... just as during the Plague, 1345-1352, a part of the population stayed uneffected, in one country more as in another ( Germanic: less, a 30-50% Roman : more a 60-90%).

So, again, let 30 % be uneffected, 30% real sick and 5% very seriously (1 in every 6), with 0,5% of the entire population to die, but 10 % with a lung problem, 20% elderly and .. 80% with already a lung disease... I will be one of your 30% pensioners to die.

Protests ?  When you believe in a God..... and have an address...

For sure an "ai farang"= dirty foreingner casued this. Never 5000 Thais with some Chinese tourists. Ask the Thai minister of Health, a world-top specialist in this.

All research and developments for medical devices and medicines in the EU should be completely in the hands of the EU Uni's and (academic) hospitals. Most of the research there we as tax payers fund anyway, and for the rest inclusive swindle-margins to Big Farma. Therefe,re.. all this in the hands of the pubklic sector, and a kind of Medic Czar above it, in the Eur European Medicines Agency. When other nations want to join: perfect.

Everyone with even the BEGINNING of any knowledge about microbiology ( and virusses) can tell you, the ONLY effect of these masks is to have a bacteria growth just a cm in front of your mouth and nose. Against virusses… it will not help. And when the proper medical anti-virus masks are used, you have to renew them every 15-30 minutes. if not,... again.. a breeding place.

For a normal flue, for which the by-far majority of all humans have a natural resistance, it helps, when YOU are infected NOT to spread the flue-virus by sneezing etc, but against a new virus like corona... it helps just as much as using ship propellers in the Chao Praya to get the flood away ( 2012) 

Too little, but far too late. ( just as the rest of Europe) 

Saturday 22 Feb a TV crew from Slovenia went into the quarantaine zone, made some interviews etc, and left again. At 19:30 report at Dutch TV and many other networks.

Consumers went outside the zone to do shopping. The quarantaine zone was not enforced enough, so.. now all are in real <deleted>.

Masks, anti-bacteriological gel: not available in NL and a lot of other EU places, as.. the main supplier for these masks and ethanol, needed in all these disinfection products are hardly exported from China. Even hospitals, dentists, have real problems to guarantee supply, so needed for their work. I therefore hope the EU and other purchasers are going to think about how to guarantee supply for strategic raw materials. = buy locally, do NOT reply on one CHEAP source = China.

Too little too late.

When you punt 11 villages/small towns in quarantaine, but you do not enforce it enough, so a TV crew from Slovenia goes in and out to make a report, interviews etc ( Sat 22 Feb on many TV networks in Europe ( like Dutch RTL at 19:30 ) , yes, money goes first), when civilians go to do shopping outside the quarantained zone, do not be surprized, when it has zero effect and now all over Europe people from Lombardia and Veneto are infected. 

18 hours ago, ThailandGuy said:

How about mosquitoes spreading the virus?

They can NOT. Do some reading at Internet first.  spreading coronavirus by mosquitoes 

https://www.pctonline.com/article/coronavirus-virus-mosquitoes-cope/

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202002/25/WS5e546ce0a310128217279fc7.html

18 hours ago, clearance said:

Not a problem to stay at home for 14 days, but what about the food? Even if we order it online, we need to go meet delivery guy.

Quite simple: ut the money a 2 mtr in front of you, the delivery guy puts there the food, takes the money, and you collect the foods. The virus has to be spread by body liquids, like sneezing. I haven't seen anyone who can sneeze 2 mtrs away.

And if you donot trust the 2 mtr... put it at 5 mtrs away.

On this way during Roman times, 2000 years ago, it already functioned with leproses

22 hours ago, david555 said:

Avoid total disaster by taking your allowed 400K in cash , as soon allowed...., and only return it to bank when the needed date is there again , at least you have  400K under your own hand if you fear some unrest situations ...

 

Cash is still king, Gold emperor , and plastic is only money as long no body press a special  button or certain  phone call …… after that it is only plastic ….same for bank account

I agree competely. Too often the Thai government changed regulations. so I leave just enough money in Thailand to fulfil the regulations. The rest.. outside TH.  What I did not need of the THB 65k/m, outside once a 3-6 months, to be used for the next monthly transfer(s).

This young girl archieved more as 3/4 of all TV readers together.

When you put an area ( 11 villages/small towns) under quarantine, but does not uphold it : TV crew of Slovenia went in and out ( Sat. 22 Feb even on Dutch TV) , made a report, interviews with people inside) and lots of people went out of the area to do shopping, then do NOT be surprised when a disease spreads so much.