spidermike007

We would have to stretch our imaginations to their furthest reaches, to even consider Thailand engaging in anything sustainable, on any level, much less leading the region in sustainability. There are few nations in the world that are presently doing less, to create a sustainable economy or environment. Few are doing less to implement alternative energy programs, green construction and industry, waste water recycling, rooftop gardens, viable, and affordable insulation programs for new construction, etc. etc. For this hooligan and fool to even mention this at the conference is disingenuous at best, and criminal at worst. Talk about projecting a false image to the world. Wow. What can one even say?

Thailand is decades behind the rest of the world when it comes to environmentally sustainable policy, at the national level. These kinds of programs require vision, intelligence, concern for the future of the country, and the willingness to set aside a budget for that which you cannot see, touch, or feel, at the present moment.

I could site dozens of examples of this, but rather than just bore you to death, I will leave it at that.

That's how it is in Saudi Arabia, as well. There, sermons have to be cleared by the government before they can be delivered to ensure that they follow the government line.

No reason why the same cannot apply elsewhere, in my opinion.

Yeah well I suppose sensible and true.

I just think then Muslims may want to have a bit of free international discussion as to what is the core of the religion and see whether the current Salafist and Wahabbi leadership, or internationally represented face of Islam, actually fits the people's core beliefs. White people watch that debate you'd change your perceptions in five minutes..

It is an interesting point you bring up, and one that makes us ponder if this debate is going on within Muslim society. And if so, why are we hearing so little about that debate? Why are so few Muslims speaking out against the super freak rapists, gang banging ISIS men children, and the murderous thugs pretending to be religious. There was a massive rally in Belgium recently. How many muslims showed up, denouncing the extremists? How many Muslim leaders, politicians and clerics are speaking out in a vociferous manner?

The issue is, that many moderate minded people are starting to lump all Muslims together, due to the lack of outcry from within the Muslim community. It is making them appear to be either complicit, or at least tolerant of the nonsense. If they do not start speaking out, the potential backlash toward all muslims worldwide could become horrific.

Below is an example of an anti terror protest on April 17 in Belgium. Even though the report is from The Guardian it failed to report the demonstration was contributed to & coordinated by members of the local Muslim community - reported by another media outlet. An earlier demonstration was stopped by violent far right thugs.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/17/thousands-participate-in-brussels-march-against-terror-and-hate

As previously mentioned in other topics in some detail many Islamic / Muslim organisations have very clearly spoken out against Daesh and other terror groups with little coverage by mainstream media outlets. Here in Australia there was a terror murder of a police civilian worker; the local Muslim community held a fund raiser for the family of the deceased - exactly one media outlet reported the matter. Thousands of Muslim security forces have lost their lives fighting Islamic terror groups, minimal coverage of the effort & losses.

Overall there is little balanced reporting, one has to ask the question - "Why?".

Thanks so much for that post. People really need to start seeing these kinds of things. I am very alarmed at my moderate minded friends, who are starting to lump all Muslims together. I have spent years arguing that the majority of Muslims do not support the butthead extremists. But, that argument is getting harder and harder to make. We need to see more of this, and there is an urgency to this.

And yes, I agree the media does not seem to have an interest in reporting much of this. It seems fear mongering, and spreading hatred, Trump style, is what the media is more interested in.

Whistleblowers are not appreciated here in Thailand. They are capable of blowing the cover off of many lies, and fabrications. The person who leaked this video footage deserves praise, and an award, for being an excellent citizen, not criticism by small minded men, who cannot see the bigger picture, and are motivated strictly by politics and greed. Shame on this creton for even mentioning this. Makes him look even smaller than he is, which is quite small.

The main reason that I will not return to Thailand next season is that personal safety is now almost impossible to predict and is at an all time low since coming here many years ago.

Life is not improving for the average Thai and it only stands to reason that life will not improve for farangs.

Maltreatment and crimes against farangs has been shown to be following an exponential growth curve.

Comments made by farangs in numerous TV forums bear witness and testament to this phenomena.

I wish all TV participants best of luck in escaping unscathed from what is quickly becoming a boiling pot of discontent, jealousy, and acts of violence (which for the most part seldom are found to significantly punish the perpetrators)

I'll return to Cambodia.

That is such utter, and completely ridiculous hogwash. To say Cambodia is safer for a foreigner than Thailand, is a bit like saying Wyoming is more liberal than Oregon, or Libya has better salmon fishing than Alaska. Thailand remains incredibly safe for foreigners. The number of attacks remains incredibly low. A few incidents do not imply the nation has become dangerous for foreigners. Not even close. Exponential growth of violence against foreigners? Would you care to back that up with statistical analysis, or some sort of evidence?

When you said a boiling pot of discontent, jealousy, jealousy and acts of violence, I thought you were talking about the US, or Europe.

Have you lived in Cambodia Spidermike?

i have. Had a business there.

I really hope that you can negotiate a safe path while wearing your rose coloured glasses in Thailand. I'm happy to hear that you feel so safe and have such a firm grasp of the macro-dynamics of the country.

Please don't whine and complain when it goes left on you and that you have been given a head's up.

ps. for years I've been touting the upsides of living in Thailand to my friends ******* I've recently stopped - thankfully I haven't been living an insular life with expats at the local bars and brand name coffee bars because I think one can become quite delusional when considering that "all is well"

It ain't well and it ain't going to be well for a long time to come.

I have visited Cambodia many times, and have two good friends that lived there for years. Got a pretty good inside view of the place. I like Cambodia. But, consider it infinitely more dangerous than Thailand, on many, many levels.

I do not wear rose colored glasses, though I have been accused of being a positive person, at times. I do believe it depends on one's perspective. I do consider Thailand to be very safe. Granted, I rarely hang out at the bars, around drunk people. Thailand remains a lovely place to live for many of us, despite the occasional incident, like the ones we have seen lately.

One thing that has to be taken into consideration, is that the entire world is changing, not just Thailand. There is an increasing amount of intolerance all over the world now.

That's how it is in Saudi Arabia, as well. There, sermons have to be cleared by the government before they can be delivered to ensure that they follow the government line.

No reason why the same cannot apply elsewhere, in my opinion.

Yeah well I suppose sensible and true.

I just think then Muslims may want to have a bit of free international discussion as to what is the core of the religion and see whether the current Salafist and Wahabbi leadership, or internationally represented face of Islam, actually fits the people's core beliefs. White people watch that debate you'd change your perceptions in five minutes..

It is an interesting point you bring up, and one that makes us ponder if this debate is going on within Muslim society. And if so, why are we hearing so little about that debate? Why are so few Muslims speaking out against the super freak rapists, gang banging ISIS men children, and the murderous thugs pretending to be religious. There was a massive rally in Belgium recently. How many muslims showed up, denouncing the extremists? How many Muslim leaders, politicians and clerics are speaking out in a vociferous manner?

The issue is, that many moderate minded people are starting to lump all Muslims together, due to the lack of outcry from within the Muslim community. It is making them appear to be either complicit, or at least tolerant of the nonsense. If they do not start speaking out, the potential backlash toward all muslims worldwide could become horrific.

The main reason that I will not return to Thailand next season is that personal safety is now almost impossible to predict and is at an all time low since coming here many years ago.

Life is not improving for the average Thai and it only stands to reason that life will not improve for farangs.

Maltreatment and crimes against farangs has been shown to be following an exponential growth curve.

Comments made by farangs in numerous TV forums bear witness and testament to this phenomena.

I wish all TV participants best of luck in escaping unscathed from what is quickly becoming a boiling pot of discontent, jealousy, and acts of violence (which for the most part seldom are found to significantly punish the perpetrators)

I'll return to Cambodia.

That is such utter, and completely ridiculous hogwash. To say Cambodia is safer for a foreigner than Thailand, is a bit like saying Wyoming is more liberal than Oregon, or Libya has better salmon fishing than Alaska. Thailand remains incredibly safe for foreigners. The number of attacks remains incredibly low. A few incidents do not imply the nation has become dangerous for foreigners. Not even close. Exponential growth of violence against foreigners? Would you care to back that up with statistical analysis, or some sort of evidence?

When you said a boiling pot of discontent, jealousy, jealousy and acts of violence, I thought you were talking about the US, or Europe.

It is simply time to move on. Be good to yourself, and get out as quickly as is humanly possible. Tomorrow if you can. And offer her as little financial support as you have to. She does not deserve it. Just move on. Man up. No tears. No regret. Just move on.

I do feel bad for you. But, the best thing you can do is to treat yourself with love and respect.

I am thrilled to hear that this tiny man child is going to spend some time in the big house. It will be really fun for her (him). The inmates might like his figure. Regardless, he is going to learn stuff he never dreamed of. Great. Love it.

What the prince is really saying, and possibly thinking is:

We are man children. We are some of the least secure men on earth. We have absolutely zero faith and trust in our women. We have little self esteem in ourselves. We are really small men, with no regard for women, and frankly, little regard for ourselves. If our women show their beautiful faces to the world, then every man will want them. And if a man wants them, who knows what these women are capable of. We have determined that left to their own devices, our women are not capable of fidelity. Most of that nation is absolutely locked in the 12th century, and refuse to budge. Keep the women in the house, in the kitchen, or the bedroom. Let them out only with another man, who will make sure she is not getting busy with friends or strangers.

They are a shameful nation. If it were not for their oil, they would mean nothing to the world. No significance whatsoever, beyond their continued financial support for terror, worldwide. Personally, I do not like fracking, and the costs to the communities where it is taking place. But, if that is what it takes to wean ourselves off of these worms, than it is a good thing.

There is a saying in SA- their grandfathers rode camels, they drive cars and their grandchildren will ride camels.

Given that many expats came away hating SA and all the people in it, there are a lot of people waiting for the day Saudi oil runs out.

Most of us cannot wait for that day, when those worms have considerably less influence than they do now, due to their black gold. They have done extremely little, to endear themselves to the world. And the paltry amount of charity they have dispensed with that enormous wealth is testament to that. Nearly all of the "charity" is given to building Madrasas around the world, many of which preach a daily diatribe of hatred and intolerance, that leads to the creation of terrorists. It is a reflection of the extreme nature of the Wahhabi "faith", that they practice. They continue to be the world's leading sponsors of terrorism, to this day.

Says a lot about the Thai view of manhood. Perish the thought that the Vietnamese might come one day: the prospect of seeing these types running for the hills would be of some amusement

The average Vietnamese guy would be able to beat the average Thai guy in a street fight within 20 seconds flat. Same goes for a multitude of nations, that produce real men. In Liverpool, or the Philippines, that time frame would probably be reduced to 7 seconds. Two good punches to the head, and the midsection, and the punk would be crying, whimpering, and begging for forgiveness, like a little worm. My guess is, that the average Thai guy, in a street fight without weapons, would not even be able to beat a high percentage of his female counterparts.

About the right odds for a Thai man fight 8 men against 1 woman I bet the parents of the men must be so proud see how our boys won another fight easily

Send these guys to try the same thing to Liverpool (UK) and see how tough they really are. They will if they are lucky just be in hospital for a long time

I am certain you are correct about that. Same goes for Vietnam, the Philippines, South Africa, and many other places. These little insects would not last a full minute against any capable street fighter. There is a reason why they fight in packs. When is the last time you have witnessed a Thai man fighting solo, without weapons, outside of a Muay Thai ring? It so rarely happens. These punks would probably lose to a 15 year old girl, one on one.

Ah wonderful Thailand. My son just told me one of the attackers of the British family has got off without any charges, seemingly because he said he was sorry and wouldn't do it again. <deleted>.

This is why I tell all my friends and family to avoid the country like the plague.

if that is the case, it is about alot more than saying he was sorry. It is no doubt, about money, power, influence, family, and connection.

But, we all hope it is not true. They announced on Thai language news yesterday, that the prosecutors are going to seek ten year prison sentence for the disease infected worms involved.

I thought a "Gik" was a kept male whereas a Mia Noi was a mistress, so is the headline wrong or does "Gik" apply to a female?

On a different subject, what is it that makes Thai males so full of anger and malevolence? It seems to be there just under the surface.

They are poor

They are uneducated

They are stupid

They have no way to get ahead in life except by socially unacceptable means, in the caste hierarchical and racist/bigoted society in which they live..

They are buddhist, and are taught to suppress their anger

So... the foreigners come...

They are richer

They are more educated and smarter, doing well in life

They are more handsome, endowed, and treat their women with respect

They haven't needed to suppress their anger

They take their girlfriends, their sisters, their mothers and so on and so forth

The women get the money, they get nothing

I'm surely not condoning it, but really... it ain't rocket science why they're angry... it's just human animalistic nature, sort of like Lord of the Flies with some twists.

Welcome to the Land of Crocodile Smiles

The point you are missing, is that there is very little Thai on farang crime here. Very little. The few attacks that do occur, are usually reported, and we hear about them, and they become big news. But, there are so few. In my ten plus years here, I have never felt threatened by Thai men, even in Bangkok or Pattaya, late at night. I find if you treat them with respect, kindness, and deference, they are so rarely aggressive. No so in the Philippines, the US, or many other places. So, get your facts straight please, before engaging in fear mongering.

Some of the facts that you stated are probably correct. Some. But, does that mean most Thai guys take their frustrations out on foreigners? Thankfully, the answer is an emphatic no. That does not mean that some do not dislike us. But, there is a huge gap between disliking someone, and attacking someone. And the attacks rarely happen. That is a fact, and we are all thankful for that. Instances like the murders on Dark Tao (committed by a serial killing son, of a very rich and influential man, most likely), and the attack in Hua Hin, are quite rare here. Most Thai people are not violent.

And my guess is that even in Hua Hin, had the son just turned around and offered a wai, and a sorry, did not mean to bump into you, I am fairly certain none of that would have escalated. That family was completely out of their element, and slapping a drunk Thai man is about as ignorant an act, as a tourist can commit, regardless of the justification. It just escalated from there.

PEACE AND ORDER.?....

A farsical name for a farsical regime.

This kind of attack is very common here. Fortunately, for most of us, the vast majority is Thai on Thai. This has been going on forever. There are very few attacks on foreigners, that are unprovoked. That is the important point to remember, in all of this.

These are very, very small men, with very, very low self esteem, who will do anything for a buck, and have zero empathy, compassion, or love in their hearts. They are black souls, who worship at the altar of cash money, and will not discriminate when it comes to any act, to earn their beloved cash. It is up to Thai society to learn how to deal with these worms. As long as the government and the judiciary remain completely complicit, and refuses to arrest and jail those with money, power, influence, and the right family name, this kind of abhorrent behavior will continue, and flourish.

Frankly, this happens worldwide. But, in Thailand the absolute refusal of the government to address this problem, for the above mentioned reasons, is what is so astonishing, and sad.

quote "I don't believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people,"

And how is that racist? Giving the position of authority and judgement to an incompetent or unqualified just because they are an ethnic minority is more racist - against caucazoids. It is just so sad reading pure common sense statements made by a great man, and to have them rubbished as "racist".

because he typecast THE blacks as in ALL blacks as incompetent and unqualified. that is racist, period!

Fair enough I stand corrected. I suppose he must have been wrong otherwise the US would have a huge problem with blacks making up the vast majority of the prison population for anti-social and predominantly violent crime. Inner city areas where the blacks reside would have out of proportion crime rates and would be viewed as effectively no-go-zones especially for foot traffic. Government offices would run to a standstill with incompetent workers being awarded jobs solely on the basis of their minority status.

Lucky Mr Wayne was wrong hey.

You left out alot of sociological facts. First of all, a high percentage of the black men who were convicted of crimes, and sent to prison, did not have the benefit of high priced lawyers, who are often able to either get the sentences reduced, or thrown out. I am not condoning crime. Just stating a fact. Secondarily, there are a disproportionally high number of black men who are convicted of petty crimes, and sentenced to long prison sentences due to their race, and their past records of other minor crimes. This is completely out of proportion to the crimes committed. Many of these offenses were simple drug possession cases, that should have resulted in a few months in jail, and instead were many years. One has to understand that the "prison industry" in the US is largely privatized. So, there is an incentive for keeping the 2.4 million people in jail. It has little to do with justice, and reform, and everything to do with profit. The criminal justice system in the US is nearly completely broken, and in vast need of reform.

To talk about the black and Hispanic population in prison, without addressing any of these issues is missing the point of this.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/09/17/3568232/the-united-states-had-even-more-prisoners-in-2013/

Are you serious? Regardless of who was responsible for the first brush and whatever perceived rudeness that involved, you suggest that the Thai response was only disproportionate because the victims are elderly? Did you look at the video, the King hitting, violent face stomping? On what level and in what fantasy could this ever be a justified response, regardless of age...ok if the victims were 30 or 40 rather than 60s?

This was an attempt to kill these people. Any reasonable person, looking at the video, would conclude that this was attempted murder. A full force stomp to the unprotected head of a defenceless victim= attempted murder. That is what the charge should be. I hope they rot in prison. Being drunk and stupid is not an excuse: these are violent psychopaths

Attempted murder?

Yes, he is absolutely correct. When someone is lying down on the concrete, a full stomp to the head can quite possibly kill them. Convict them for attempted murder. 20 years in prison is appropriate.

I'd say a hefty fine is an appropriate consequence. Jail time if it a first offence is over the top.

Why an old woman is taking part in drunken New Year celebrations is questionable.

This was a fight, that's all. yes, a woman was hit but because she started it.

All the hang em high brigade are out just because it is Thais v us.

Also, Spidermike, Thais do fight alone. I've been here over 30 years and seen it many times. It's a myth about Thais only fighting when outnumbering the other, unless it is a holiday resort like Pattaya, where often the Thais have good reason to dislike the average tourist.

I would personally love to witness a Thai man fighting alone. Without a weapon that is. I would pay to see that.

And if you do not think that kicking a 65 year old woman while she is down on the sidewalk, in the head, is worthy of punishment, we live in different universes. A fine? How weak. What does that tell the public? If you have some cash, you can kick anyone's ass. Not much of a message, nor deterrent. A hefty punishment is what they deserve. A hefty prison term. That woman could have easily died. What kind of vermin kicks a 65 year old woman in the head, with their boots, while she is down on the concrete? He could have crushed her skull, easily. He could have blinded her. Assault and battery is the minimum crime the man children should be charged with.

I know the apologists will say she slapped him. No doubt, that was a fabulously ignorant thing to do. No doubt. But, it was a light slap, and it was after her son got shoved. A real man would be capable of walking away from that. By a real man, I am describing a man with self esteem, who has a sense of self, and some emotional maturity. That is quite obviously not who this cockroach is.

The question that comes to mind here, is how many traffickers have been nabbed lately? This problem is endemic. There are probably thousands of Thais involved in human trafficking, and profiting from the slave trade. How many of them are getting arrested? And if any are getting arrested, how many are getting convicted and spending many, many years in prison, like they deserve and work so hard for.

For an administration that claims how much progress it is making in the fight against human trafficking, it is shocking how few arrests are made. And when the arrests are made, guess who is getting arrested? The victims of this heinous trade. That's who. What does that tell you?

The government should be providing those that are found abandoned by the traffickers with five star hotel accommodations, dinners of lobster and steak, a profuse apology, and compensation, which they deserve after the abuse that has been heaped upon them by Thai citizens.

This looks bad on Thailand but it wasn't the Thai's who started it so much. The dad in the flowery shirt was the first to punch and the guy who got punched just came back around to seek revenge, the old lady was just caught up in all drunk rage.

They didn't deserve the beating they got because they were old and drunk and the Thai was drunk also and should have Jai Yen Yen

Are you serious? Regardless of who was responsible for the first brush and whatever perceived rudeness that involved, you suggest that the Thai response was only disproportionate because the victims are elderly? Did you look at the video, the King hitting, violent face stomping? On what level and in what fantasy could this ever be a justified response, regardless of age...ok if the victims were 30 or 40 rather than 60s?

This was an attempt to kill these people. Any reasonable person, looking at the video, would conclude that this was attempted murder. A full force stomp to the unprotected head of a defenceless victim= attempted murder. That is what the charge should be. I hope they rot in prison. Being drunk and stupid is not an excuse: these are violent psychopaths

Attempted murder?

Yes, he is absolutely correct. When someone is lying down on the concrete, a full stomp to the head can quite possibly kill them. Convict them for attempted murder. 20 years in prison is appropriate.

I guess in a way, the apologists are right, this isn't a place for decent western foreigners to visit.

Especially western women and children.

I could say that a different way and it kind of means the same thing, becuase it isnt exactly a good thing

Ill leave out the "decent", whatever that actualy means.

Western woman and children are too fragile for thailand....too spoilt

I can define my idea of decent for you.

Decent = people that don't hire prostitutes, commit acts of violence, take drugs or get falling down drunk every night.

Wow, well 1 out of 4 isn't bad.

I tend to agree with the violence, drugs (except for innocent ganga), and falling down drunk every night. But, where does the hiring a babe for fun come into all of this? Are you born again, or part of a cult? If not, for sure you must be American, or Quaker. How is having fun with a babe for hire indecent? As long as it is consensual, and she is of legal age.

These companies thrive in an environment of corruption, exploitation, monopoly, cronyism. To that extent Thailand is ideal for them: and they will continue to squeeze every last satang, by whatever means, until they are stopped. They make no contribution to social development, they are not good citizens, they off-shore their wealth. Leeches.

That description fits a lot of the political leaders here also....sadly.....

Well, one could argue that the description fits alot of the politicians all over the world. Are there any clean politicians left anywhere, at the national level? Think Clinton, Trump, Berlusconi, King Vlad (estimated fortune of $35 billion), Pavlo Lazarenko ($115 to 200 million), Arnoldo Aleman ($100 million plus), Joseph Estrada ($80 million), Spiro Agnew, Duke Cunningham, Alberto Fujimori, and so many others. I am not sure if there is one honorable member of the entire house and senate, with the possible exception of Elizabeth Warren.

Funny article. A spokesman for the Tourism Authority of Thailand said: "An investigation is in process and the suspects will soon be under the jurisdiction of the court.

"If found guilty, the perpetrators of this incident will face full justice under Thai law."

If only THAI law was willing to punish these worms. It is one of the weakest judicial systems in the world. One of the most lenient. One of the least competent. Does anyone think these guys will serve the kind of sentence they deserve for what can be described as attempted murder?

And this fool is in a position to talk? Many know he was forced out at least partly due to the financial crimes it appears he committed, while speaker of the house. This guy is about as filthy as they come. I am no fan of Ted Cruz. But, for this freak to call him out like this, is about as effective, or believable as Trump calling out a fellow developer for dishonest business tactics, or Bill Clinton calling someone out for not being honest. Lets get real here.

The mainstream reaction to the forced resignation of John Boehner as the Speaker of the House has been a kind of weary admiration. He fought the good fight against the extremists in his Republican caucus, the narrative goes, but his solid Midwestern virtues (he’s from Ohio) were ultimately no contest for the extremism of the Tea Party. This interpretation is far too generous to Boehner, whose failures, political and substantive, were due mostly to cowardice. The tragedy of Boehner is that he could have been a great Speaker, even on his own terms, but instead his legacy is one of almost complete failure.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-pointless-cowardice-of-john-boehner

The refreshing aspect of this story, is that occasionally, in the US, even the rich and well connected go to prison. Would someone like this EVER get convicted, and serve a seven year prison sentence in Thailand? I highly doubt it. Guys this rich seem to just buy their way out of trouble here. It is shameful. The authorities have alot of egg on their faces for allowing this to happen.

What is required, is concern on the part of the central government, and a willingness to go after the criminals involved, regardless of who they are, who they know, how powerful they are, how much money they have, or how much they are paying to the right people. They also need to go after the top executives of the companies that are supporting slavery, and using slaves on their fishing boats, to this day, with full knowledge of it.

And a far, far less timid and compromised judiciary system. So much could be done. So little is being done. All talk and no action makes Johnny a dull boy indeed.

Of course human compassion is needed also. What these people are being subjected to is horrendous, all in the name of money and profit. But, how do you change a society or ask it to be more compassionate? It is best to start by introducing the deterrent the has been missing for decades. Shame on the authorities for doing so little.