Nickymaster

Santi Tae-tia, 50, a cameraman for ASTV and Tosarit Wattanarat, cameraman for T-News, both anti-government television stations, lodged complaints at Nanlerng Police Station yesterday, saying they were assaulted by police, detained and had their cameras destroyed.

Santi said he showed his press card and journalist badge to no avail and was attacked by police. He added that he was forced to lie on the ground and kicked in the face, but he was able to protect himself with his hands. Santi said another journalist was assaulted. He and Tosarit were held in a detention van for more than an hour.

His camera and notebook computer were damaged and his camera was confiscated.

This is a straightforward story and the police are dead wrong. What a coincidence that it happened within 2 hours after the protest started and that one journalist works for ASTV. What a coincidence guys!

PURE intimidation by the police…Nothing less!

And then there are guys on those forum saying..yes..yes..but..but..in 2010 bla bla.. I honestly believe that many guys posting here don’t want Thailand to improve. They seem to be intelligent guys but as long as their party wins its ok. All about winning. Very dangerous people.

I have no idea about this case, other than what is reported here (the same as you i presume), but you could quite simply turn your statement around. Oh what a surprise, one 'unbiased ASTV' reporters surprise surprise make unfounded allegation of police despite being involved in the protest.

Interesting that you choose to believe the reporters version. Its simply one/two persons word against another group of people.

The whole situation was all over the news within minutes of it happening.

And the police already tried to cool down the situation by saying it was a mistake (do some research if you don't believe me). Another honest mistake.. And you don't smell anything fishy here. I am not surprised.

Santi Tae-tia, 50, a cameraman for ASTV and Tosarit Wattanarat, cameraman for T-News, both anti-government television stations, lodged complaints at Nanlerng Police Station yesterday, saying they were assaulted by police, detained and had their cameras destroyed.

Santi said he showed his press card and journalist badge to no avail and was attacked by police. He added that he was forced to lie on the ground and kicked in the face, but he was able to protect himself with his hands. Santi said another journalist was assaulted. He and Tosarit were held in a detention van for more than an hour.

His camera and notebook computer were damaged and his camera was confiscated.

This is a straightforward story and the police are dead wrong. What a coincidence that it happened within 2 hours after the protest started and that one journalist works for ASTV. What a coincidence guys!

PURE intimidation by the police…Nothing less!

And then there are guys on this forum saying..yes..yes..but..but..in 2010 bla bla.. I honestly believe that many guys posting here don’t want Thailand to improve. They seem to be intelligent guys but as long as their party wins its ok. All about winning. Very dangerous people.

While I agree that corruption will always exist, I would much rather see an administration other than one with a proven track record of corruption excellence.

Is it foolish of me to think there are some people in Thailand with integrity and a grasp of the concept of public duty?

Not at all, they exist but are not drawn to a career in politics and if they are they don't stay uncorrupted for long...

So you believe that this government is corrupt?

I believe that corruption has been evident in virtually every Government the world over since the dawn of time. Show me an incorruptible politician and I'll show you a flying pig...

Ohh, then it is ok. Let them rob the country. Let them steal billions from the tax-payers.

Haha, here we go again. Thaksin is not the puppet master. TV is the puppet master posting cerfully selected articles to get the TV puppets rilled up and ready for posting action.

At least it is a real story.

All very valid points, but the issue for PTT is an interesting conundrum.

As a shareholder, I would like to know does Mr. Abhisit suggest that it shouldn't be run to maximise profit within a regulatory framework, or is its job to provide cheap fuel to the people of Thailand?

Come to that matter, would he be complaining if Thai Airways made a profit, but tickets were above the purchase price of Thai people. Come to think of it, they make a loss, and the tickets are already beyond the reach of the vast majority of Thai people. In fact part of the reason they make a loss is because people like him are receiving subsidised tickets. I guess the shareholders should complain.

Doesn't PTT have a monopoly here in Thailand?

Doesn't that make it easy to have huge profits at the expense of the people?

Shouldn't the government intervene (like they do in many other countries in these kind of sectors)?

Impossible to compare it with Thai Airways.

No, PTT is not a monopoly, other oil companies compete in Thailand. It is Thai Government owned. Thai Airways is now a totally public entity.

http://en.wikipedia....Company_Limited

Ptt is definitely not a monopoly, is 51% govt owned, and last time i looked the finance ministry still owned 51% of Thai airways.

So my question still stands, is abhisit suggesting that ptt exists to maximize profit or give cheap fuel to Thai people?

Well...If the Thai government has 51% share in a company, we can assume that it will twist and turn its policies in order to "support" its own business.

Or do you believe that it will be an even playing field for their competitors? In Thailand? I don't think so. In a developed market economy and democracy you would be right, not in the LOS.

Sorry but before all the reds were in Bangkok a few Garrison Armory's reported thefts of weapons and ammunition, so please tell me how anyone could suggest it could have only come from the Army.

And they were recovered having never been in the hands of the red shirts. One could say it was very convenient and was used to justify the ISA and the use of armed soldiers on the streets.

Too many are focussing on the wrong thing here and ignoring witness testimony about where the shot was fired from.

"And they were recovered having never been in the hands of the red shirts"

Seriously? So the 20 or so officials etc that had have been killed "at the other side" where killed with sling-shots?

but but but the PTP run the country and control the courts

I think you meant to say:

but but but the PTP is ruining the country and (are trying very hard to) control the courts

Rising Thai supplies may increase competition among Asian producers and pressure prices that have risen 1.2 percent in Chicago this year.

http://www.businessw...stockpile-sales

Cool!, at that rate Thailand is going to make a profit in a mere 42 years or so!

That's the beauty of this scam. The average voter thinks that as long as the rice hasn't been sold, it could still be sold at a profit...hence, as long as there is no loss reported, there might be no loss.

THAT's the reason they are not selling rice...

The nature of this trial should attract international press coverage. I hope the government and judiciary realise that Thailand's justice system will be on trial just as much as those charged with terrorism.

Good point but these buffons could not care less about international press coverage. Case in point, "sorry USA we don't want or need your assistance for flood control we are experts". Result 900+ citizens died. Mai pen rai.

The German mainstream media are strongly pro red and will consider anything but an unconditional acquittal an attempt of the "old elites" to suppress democracy in Thailand. So no help from that side.

Are you sure? I don't think so.

One wonders why a democratically elected government was removed by a military coup and the people are angry.

Seems clear to me they had a valid greivance.

When totalitarian regimes installed themselves in Eastern Europoe after the second world war and people took to the streets to protest and fight, we applauded them.

When the students took to Tianamen Square to protest and fight the communist Chinese government, we applauded them.

When the Burmese people were fighting the military regime in the streets we applauded them.

Double standards anyone?

If they were protesting the coup, they were 2.5 years late.

As far I know they wanted elections. They were offered elections within six months. Most people thought that was fair from the Dems.....and then suddenly....burn this country!!

One wonders why a democratically elected government was removed by a military coup and the people are angry.

Seems clear to me they had a valid greivance.

When totalitarian regimes installed themselves in Eastern Europoe after the second world war and people took to the streets to protest and fight, we applauded them.

When the students took to Tianamen Square to protest and fight the communist Chinese government, we applauded them.

When the Burmese people were fighting the military regime in the streets we applauded them.

Double standards anyone?

But this time they had a leader who is a fugitive criminal on the run and the sub-leaders told them to burn the country.

Not really the same.

Can't any of the posters on here see that there is a possibility that the government simply want the investigation to be seen as impartial and independent? If the government were to try these cases in Thai courts and the decision reached went against your preconceived notions of what happened, would you support the verdict and say it was a fair...I don't think so...you would argue that the verdict was tainted and fixed by the government.

Well you can't fix the ICC, and any verdict from them would carry much more weight internationally. Surely if you want the truth to come out, you would want the investigators to be unbiased and impartial?

MY money is on the following scenario: the government has investigated thoroughly and knows that the red shirts will be exonerated and that the army and Abhisit (who lied consistently throughout the confrontation) will be found at fault. Therefore the government doesn't want this tainted or buried, but wants it out in the open and untainted...hence they want the ICC to come in and endorse their feelings.

ONe of the more sensible comments I read said that the ICC would not take the case because it is political...that may be right, but maybe they will want to help reconciliation by taking a firm position. The ICCs verdict will not help people with blinkers on...their minds are made up already, but it will sway some of the less partisan, and open minded types, if, indeed there are any left in Thailand.

Actually, most of the people responding to this thread aren't objecting to the ICC taking an impartial look at this case, they are deriding the PT government's efforts to manipulate the ICC by telling them "Look into this case, but don't look into that case".

Agreed.

But I do not see how the ICC can take any one event out of the lead up and actual events of 2010 to only find a government guilty, and not also as the recent thai report tabled found that the UDD and Reds were just as guilty. One only has to recall Sah Dueang before he was dealt to spouting of his mouth on international news media about who was in charge and it was up to him to say when it was over. Somehow I think this is just time buying bull crap and will never get anywhere near the ICC as the Dubai master mind behind the whole deal will also be fingered by a more subjective non thai body.

Most probably it has been said numerous times but this ICC (one off ) thing is just a show to:

1. Keep the Reds happy. Apparently the millions (from the 2010 protest), tablets, rice buying etc they received is not enough for them.

2. To a lesser extent, put pressure on Abhisit to accept Thaksin's whitewash bill.

Be careful guys. There are attempts to derail this thread. Let's stick to the topic:

Thai Red Shirt Protest Leaders To Go On Trail

Can't any of the posters on here see that there is a possibility that the government simply want the investigation to be seen as impartial and independent? If the government were to try these cases in Thai courts and the decision reached went against your preconceived notions of what happened, would you support the verdict and say it was a fair...I don't think so...you would argue that the verdict was tainted and fixed by the government.

Well you can't fix the ICC, and any verdict from them would carry much more weight internationally. Surely if you want the truth to come out, you would want the investigators to be unbiased and impartial?

MY money is on the following scenario: the government has investigated thoroughly and knows that the red shirts will be exonerated and that the army and Abhisit (who lied consistently throughout the confrontation) will be found at fault. Therefore the government doesn't want this tainted or buried, but wants it out in the open and untainted...hence they want the ICC to come in and endorse their feelings.

ONe of the more sensible comments I read said that the ICC would not take the case because it is political...that may be right, but maybe they will want to help reconciliation by taking a firm position. The ICCs verdict will not help people with blinkers on...their minds are made up already, but it will sway some of the less partisan, and open minded types, if, indeed there are any left in Thailand.

ONe of the more sensible comments I read said that the ICC would not take the case because it is political...that may be right, but maybe they will want to help reconciliation by taking a firm position.

I Surely don't believe that IF the ICC would come in it would promote reconciliation.

Thaksin needs a scapegoat for all the terror he has organized. For him it is either we are all clean, or AV is a killer.

That's why he doesn't want the ICC to come to Thailand. Hence, they want ONE OFF case which is impossible if you know who the ICC operates. It’s another Red show.

[Err actually no I'm not... please check the posts on the first page of this thread. 2010 was mentioned quite a few times before I even started posting on this thread... Buchholz even started referencing 2007!

In 2010, the army initially didn't block the protesters from going anywhere. Therefore they had no need to try to push through any blockades.

Yes, I agree disastrous action plan from the Government at that time, why didn't they take any action to limit their movement? It's like they were totally unprepared and handled the entire incident negligently.

It's all ifs and buts isn't it but history is there to teach us a lesson and it seems that this Government learnt a few from the disastrous inaction and then overreaction from the Dems in 2010. Thankfully this protest was handled considerably better and no one lost their life as a result.

Exactly how do you think the Government could have handled this protest better and retrospectively what lessons could the previous Dem Government have learned from the handling of this situation?

"Yes, I agree disastrous action plan from the Government at that time, why didn't they take any action to limit their movement? It's like they were totally unprepared and handled the entire incident negligently."

TIT. The police supports PT, the army supports Dems. I think bad handling is not the case. I know you prefer to blame it on the Dems but I prefer to blame it on the system.

Yes, I think there is truth in what both of us are maintaining. There certainly are many split loyalties in this kingdom. That said one party seems to be realistic and takes action while the other puts it's head in the sand and relies on reaction... or as we saw in 2010, gross overreaction.

gross overreaction is the result of gross underreaction

Totally detached from reality.

Abhisit?

Sorry but it's hard to tell from your in depth post about the issues raised.

I found it quite easy to understand.

whoever has a particular bias will take from it what they want, for those with an open mind it was there to be questioned.

Really? Also when Yingluck is the topic of this thread?

You are the one bringing 2010 into the discussion and comparing it to the weekend's protests.

Err actually no I'm not... please check the posts on the first page of this thread. 2010 was mentioned quite a few times before I even started posting on this thread... Buchholz even started referencing 2007!

In 2010, the army initially didn't block the protesters from going anywhere. Therefore they had no need to try to push through any blockades.

Yes, I agree disastrous action plan from the Government at that time, why didn't they take any action to limit their movement? It's like they were totally unprepared and handled the entire incident negligently.

It's all ifs and buts isn't it but history is there to teach us a lesson and it seems that this Government learnt a few from the disastrous inaction and then overreaction from the Dems in 2010. Thankfully this protest was handled considerably better and no one lost their life as a result.

Exactly how do you think the Government could have handled this protest better and retrospectively what lessons could the previous Dem Government have learned from the handling of this situation?

"Yes, I agree disastrous action plan from the Government at that time, why didn't they take any action to limit their movement? It's like they were totally unprepared and handled the entire incident negligently."

TIT. The police supports PT, the army supports Dems. I think bad handling is not the case. I know you prefer to blame it on the Dems but I prefer to blame it on the system.

No need to talk about elections here. It seems to be a common practice by many to throw it in: "Yes but they won elections...democratic govenrment.. Completely irrelevant to the topic. We are discussing the role of the police during protest. Isn’t it?

That pretty much says it all Nicky. Yes, the democratic rights of the people to elect their own Government are totally irrelevant and have no bearing on the protests, the police response or the political landscape.

Almost angle.

We are discussing the role of the police during protest. Isn’t it?

"I'm not sure what exactly we have learned about 2010 from this" Really?

So you don't know neither that the Police force only works for the Shin clan? It has been like this for many years now. Anyhow, never mind if you don't see it.

Just leave it here. No need to talk to a guy that doesn't know Thai history.

Didn't you get past the first sentence of my post Nicky?

I suggest you read up on Thai history yourself, try to keep your tone civil and refrain from getting personal. There's a far greater divide within the police than there is within the army. Countless military coups have taught us exactly where the military's loyalties lie!

The fact is that the police managed to control and suppress this protest without loss of life. In 2010 the army used live ammunition on Thai citizens and many people died as a result. That's the big difference for me, a democratically elected Government & police force that showed restraint faced with a protest calling for a coup as opposed to a sham Government & army that turned the capitol city into a war zone and opened fire on it's own citizens who were calling for elections...

Please don't skip over that point Nicky, one group were calling for elections, calling for their votes to be counted and their voices heard, the other were calling for a military coup, an undemocratic ousting of the Government... not an election, a coup.

Fact is that in 2010 the Dems tried very hard to make the police control the crowd but instead the police left the crowd to do whatever they wanted. ALL PART OF THE MASTERPLAN. This resulted in total anarchy. The military was brought in after many weeks to clean up the mess. To give innocent people their life and job BACK. I live in the area I have seen it, day in and out for many weeks.

No need to talk about elections here. It seems to be a common practice by many to throw it in: "Yes but they won elections...democratic government.. Completely irrelevant to the topic. We are discussing the role of the police during protest. Isn’t it?

Why do you call me Nicky?

What a sad situation. Aah, just give them a tablet computer. (I know it is not funny.. but true). All those billions that are being stolen by the Shin clan from the rice scam could provide a lot of security for the hard working Thai teacher.

Meanwhile back in the real world...http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/600928-yingluck-touts-her-achievements/

Even PT, Thaksin and Red supporters are silenced by the magnitude of this scam. We are most probably witnissing the biggest corruption case in Thai history. The only thing Yingluck can say is: "The poor farmers like it".

Where are you guys? Come on! Defend your heroes.

Put the kettle on. It could be a long wait.

I already found them. They are here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/600928-yingluck-touts-her-achievements/

I'd be very surprised if the ICC accept this very selective proposal, they either sign up to the ICC and regognise it's legal authority or they don't - there is no half measure

Typical Thai attitude wanting total control no matter what eventuality and if it's not going their way they can drop it like a brick - another sham to peg firmly with this government

Correct: You become a signatory or you don't. PT wants a one case membership. Bunch of jokers.

This is a game to show the Reds that PT is doing everything possible to give them justice. Poor guys don't even realize they are part of yet another Thaksin game.

Especially when you consider that they were arrested within 2 hours from the start of the rally.

A show of force to intimidate other protestors…

Yeeah let's congratulate the Thai police for selective law enforcement. Give me a break!

Of course cutting through barbed wire barriers and attacking the police had nothing to do with it. Better to have waited a few days, let it get really violent and then bring in the snipers in the army?

A few days? A few weeks (months) you mean. Because the police was basically none-existing in 2010, the army had to be brought in to end the out-of-control mess. Interesting. I agree.

So to simplify the whole thing, would the police have been as active in 2010 as they were 2 days ago, all the terror, death and destruction would have been MUCH less.

I think the last week has taught us a lot about what happened in 2010.

I'm not sure what exactly we have learned about 2010 from this. I guess we could take from it that the authorities did a much better job of containing this protest than they did in 2010. That would be a pretty simplistic view given the completely different scale, intent and motivation of the two protests; one was calling for elections, the other a coup... it's pretty disingenuous to compare the two really. One had considerable public (national and international) sympathy with their cause, the other not...

Thankfully no one died during this protest and given the emotionally charged backdrop I think that's a resounding success for both the police and the current administration. They seem to have been much better prepared and actually had an action plan in place and enforced it. I agree, we saw the complete opposite in 2010 and many people lost their lives as a result.

So on balance looking at the way the respective Governments handled these situations, which was an unmitigated disaster and which a resounding success?

"I'm not sure what exactly we have learned about 2010 from this" Really?

So you don't know that the Police force only works for the Shin clan? It has been like this for many many years now. Anyhow, never mind if you don't see it.

Just leave it here. No need to talk to a guy that doesn't know Thai history.