connda

I recommend the following technique:

Doing anything logical, like trying to explain why it would be better to preserve the integrity of tests/paperwork/etc. by emphasizing quality over "this looks neat!" will only end badly. Nothing will change, you'll be pinned as a subversive, squeaky wheel, and things will go downhill.

So, my method of emulating the "Thai" way of doing things is this: Smile, nod, and agree with everything.

"Oh yes, clearly I must re-order the multiple choice options by length. It's the only sensible thing to do!"

"I'm happy to oblige your request for my entire year's worth of lesson plans. For a set of classes that I haven't even been assigned to yet. With no curriculum guidelines, books, worksheets, or resources of any kind whatsoever provided by you."

"Yes, obviously since the director's dog died 17 years ago today, I was remiss in not wearing black mourning clothes, even though I didn't even know that the director had ever had a dog until today. I'll make a note of it so I can be sure to comply next year!"

And after turning off the part of your brain that would normally prevent you from smiling, nodding, and spouting that sort of drivel, pick the most half-assed way to comply with the easiest 10% of the crap you "agree" to. Using those examples above, I would "agree" to the first but then "forget" to actually do it until I had been asked at least 15 times. For the second, I'd do about the same, except after maybe 5 times or so I'd print out a stack of sample plans from a google search or old lesson plans that apply to a book that no longer exists or whatever else; they could be lesson plans for entirely different subject and it won't matter as long as they look "neat". The third one would be the only one I'd comply with on the first request; although I'd probably actually inform whoever was harping at me that due to the extreme gravitas of the situation I clearly need to go home and put on a black shirt... Please allow 3-4 hours for me to run home and change into the appropriate garb.

Lol, yes...good advice.

It's actually me that's been doing the typing for her to help her out. For the length of line thing, I just add extra spaces, wherever I can, hahaha. I also make up the distractors...of course most have to be serious options, but as it's out of 5 choices (a-e), I can always put in one silly one. There's quite a few answer options that refer to Mars, going out for coffee, or some other irrelevant nonsense.

She told me that she is about to give up. The last test she set, she had 30 (multi choice) questions, but the answer sheet had 40 squares. 90% of the students answered 40 questions with a, b, c, d, or e!!! She concluded that they are all not even reading the questions, just putting random answers on the answer sheet. I think she's right.

If the average score was about 20% correct, then they're guessing at random. She's probably forced to grade on a curve. Average score of 20% correct! Everyone passes!!!

-always have a Thai citizen "front" for you for everything from ordering food to dealing with Thai government.

Seriously?

Because I've been ordering food for myself this whole time, and it seems to have gone ok so far. What have I been doing wrong?

Me too. Considering I can read the menu in Thai and speak the language, it's been a heck of a long time since I needed a Thai Front to do my food ordering.

Sang ruyang krap?

Sang laew krap!

I'm married to a Thai National, can speak Thai, read Thai, write Thai, I've been an ordained Buddhist monk. The apartment my wife and I rent in the city has no farang renters, and there is only one other farang in the 35 kilometer stretch of mountain valley where our home is located;

And, I think Thai immigration policy totally sucks.

Man, I don't wai stupidity when I see it; I call it as I see it.

Please don't assume that farangs who vent (rant to you) have somehow not assimilated into Thai culture and society. That a slightly ignorant position to try to support, especially when you don't have all the facts.

Here's another one, Pattaya style.

Just act like it's Miami Beach with a worse beach and better Thai food. Works for me.

Personally, I like a little whine with my Thai food.

OP. Nice rant!

Most of us are farangs, and farangs tend to be opinionated. Unlike many cultures that repress their feeling until they blow a gasket -- we vent. Personally, I think it's a healthier option.

Do I have positive opinions about Thailand? Yep!
Do I have negative opinions about Thailand? Yep! But that doesn't mean I'm leaving.

I always love the, "If you don't like it here, go back home.", crowd. It takes about 2 brain cells to come up with that type of childish retort. Or an IQ approximate to their age. lol

Ah-huh.

I wouldn't qualify either, but who in their right mind would want to sit on that jury?

Two 7-11's and a Tesco Express......and you call that a village??

We have to drive 20k's to get to that sort of civilisation.

Yeah. 30k to the nearest 7/11 for us.

We both eat bread. Corn flakes occasionally. And maybe MickyD's french fries about once a year. Pizza and Sizzler twice a year. Other than that - its Thai food for the Mrs. I'll make spaghetti, casseroles, and farang soups for myself on occasion while in the village. Other than that - Thai food is my primary diet too. Lots of vegetables cooked Thai style or in Thai curries over mali hom / red rice mixtures, and fruits.

I liked Thai food in the West, and I like Thai food ever better here in the LOS! Arroy arroy!

This will never change until the Thai teachers organize and demand fair treatment . Of course they're never going to do that, so they'll continue to be treated little more than cogs in a machine to be worked as much and as hard as possible, and replaced when they begin to squeak.

Yeah, until they grow spines and stop being subservient to authority figures, ain't nothing gonna change. Heck, virtually all of them would die to be the Puu Yai, top-dog, manager/owner themselves. How can you change a system where 'brown-nosing' is institutionalize, right along with patronage, and nepotism.

OP. Take you wife to your home country, put her though University to get her BEd or MEd and teaching credentials, and have her teach in Western school. Then if you come back, she can teach in an International school where there is a bit more sanity.

Personally, that's why I limited my teaching here in the LOS to private English language schools. You couldn't pay me enough to put up with the BS that teachers are subjected to in Thai school systems. And arrogant Puu Yais, for me personally, are just the type of people I love to mindf***. They don't understand sarcasm and cynicism, they don't get any overt respect from me other than the polite niceties that I offer to everyone else, and I question authority whenever it spouts stupidity. That why most schools have a farang manager to act as a buffer between the farang staff and Thai administration. Not necessarily to protect the farang staff, but more to keep irate farang staff for sitting down with some 'holier-than-thou', puu yai administrator and start questioning them about the rationale behind their idiotic policies. I generally had more respect for the Thai support staff than I did for Thai management.

No fireworks allowed at Loy Kratong. No drinking allowed in the afternoon. No traditional floating lanterns.

Thailand is turning into a nanny state.

Bingo!!! And you can tell all the nanny-state supporters on this thread. Seems like the nanny-state generation has arrived. Great for socialist and communist oriented societies. Central planning, political correctness, and repressive governance. I moved once to get away from the stupidity. I could move again, but I doubt that the rural Thais I live with are going to embrace that stupidity before I'm shoved into the village's easy-bake oven and my remains floated down the River Ping. Thank god.

It's time to follow John Galt.

Sounds like a stance to destroy an iconic Thai tradition. Maybe the first baby steps to dismantle the status quo and implement a globalist, nanny-state mentality?

Personally, after nightfall on Loi Kratong and New Years Eve, they should just ground all flights.

Anyway, you can put something the size and weight of a turkey though a modern jet engine. Doubt if a kom fai is going to do much of anything but get shredded and blown out the exhaust.

What ever happens please don't join the Pattaya flying club

Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing, but the Pattaya Flying Club don't have a very good record of walking away after landings.

Femi wrote "I was really wanting to find out how, and if, foreigners can make their voice heard in a collective manner in terms of requesting the Thai people/powers-that-be to take a look at those laws and say yes, perhaps they can be updated to the modern era." (copy and paste)

Can you give us some examples where this kind of thing has been done in other Asian countries by non-citizens/foreigners, in the past 20 or so years? In any countries by non-citizens?

You could set up a club to pursue it, why don't you do that? Your wife would undoubtedly give you full support and liason with the Thai community, wouldn't she?

Can you give us some examples where this kind of thing has been done in other Asian countries by non-citizens/foreigners, in the past 20 or so years? In any countries by non-citizens?

Yes I can. Try La Raza in the US. Actively lobbying Congress and other legislative bodies to turn a blind-eye to Hispanics entering the US illegally. And, their lobbying efforts are pretty successful.

La Raza is short for La Raza Hispánica or The Hispanic Race.

OP, can you re-state your question? I've re-read the OP and it meanders to the point of being unintelligible. I think you mean to say this, but correct me if I am wrong:

"I have friends who need to support themselves and, in some cases, their Thai spouses/children. Unfortunately, it is very hard to do here since work permits are not that easy to obtain. We love Chiang Mai and want to stay here and support the community with the skills we have to offer. What can we do?"

I've read the OP twice and it seems to be a perfectly lucid, well-thought out opinion. Imho.

Then why did you have to read it twice?

Because I'm compulsive? There's truth in that. Most TV posts I scan fairly quickly. But when the thread becomes interesting, I'll go back an read the initial Op and the more intelligently written posts and counter-posts slowly. It's just how my mind works Ms JulieM.

Quote the OP -People been living in Thailand for years, reporting in every three months like a common criminal let out of prison and placed under limited freedom of movement. Unquote

Costs 47 baht to 90 day report by mail - some hardship

Multiple entry stamp - come and go as I please. No hardship.

Whatever are you talking about ?

Not all the hardship directly caused by the Thai system. Now the British consulate is refusing or are unable to notarise documents, where does this leave us retirees who rely on this service?

Just thinking out loud, but if it's just a notary, I wonder if the US embassy would do it? You might send them an email. The worst they can say is, "No."

OP, can you re-state your question? I've re-read the OP and it meanders to the point of being unintelligible. I think you mean to say this, but correct me if I am wrong:

"I have friends who need to support themselves and, in some cases, their Thai spouses/children. Unfortunately, it is very hard to do here since work permits are not that easy to obtain. We love Chiang Mai and want to stay here and support the community with the skills we have to offer. What can we do?"

I've read the OP twice and it seems to be a perfectly lucid, well-thought out opinion. Imho.

While these things stated in the original post may in 'substance' be accurate, the fact that they exist is not necessarily a 'problem.'

The laws are made for Thais. Perhaps they don't see these issues as 'problems.' Perhaps they see them as their government protecting them from foreign influence, foreign invasion of business, and foreign incursion of their culture.

Perhaps the problem isn't the problem. Perhaps the problem is 'your' attitude about these conditions.

I've always have found the mind-set of individuals who are so content with the status-quo that they feel a need to disparage those who believe in constructive change as -- an interestingly arrogant, smug, and somewhat lazy point-of-view.

It's too easy: "If you don't like it go home." "You have a bad attitude, get over it." "This isn't your country. You're a guest so you have no rights and no reason to voice concerns." TV is full of this sort of non-constructive, negative minded thinking.

There is only one constant in this world. That constant is change. Everything changes, no matter how much you wish the status-quo to remain the same. So I embrace the change, and like the OP and others, I truly believe it's better to attempt to influence the direction of change over time, as opposed to just accepting it.

I'm hoping any debate this thread throws up will not be caught up with this kind of reply. Firstly the claims are just not true, secondly i really wanted a debate that is a wee bit more objective in terms of offering serious ideas rather than deep-rooted beliefs.

Such beliefs may be true to an extent, but only relating to the past. Times have changed. Laws pertaining to the ability of foreigners to work here, get married and work here, and so on, have not changed. This thread would like to debate these laws, and to throw up ideas for how a collective voice can be made and heard to try and bring about positive change for people who add to the flavour and positivity in this nation, in particular our town here in Chiang Mai.

You don't want an objective debate, you want replies that agree with you.

For one, I agree with you. And I'm not thinking the OP wants a debate (i.e., opposing opinions arguing a specific topic) as opposed to a constructive dialog of ideas. He has good point, many of which I've voiced myself. Here, let's take one point - opening a business like yoga.

In the West, right now, I'd have no problem financing a yoga studio. A yoga studio would not cost me $61.5 thousand US dollars in 'registered capital' to open. I could probably open a studio where I use to live for about $5000 including rental, equipment, licensing, and permits. I opened a small business for my ex-wife in the past.

Here in the LOS, there is no way I'm going to tie up $61.5 thousand US dollars (2 mil baht registered) to open a small business that I can open for 12 time less money in my own country But yet, I out-earn most middle-class Thai by a lot. So yeah, the bar to entry into the system is set ridiculously high. Especially for those of us married to Thais and have families we support. I live here. My wife and family do not want to leave Thailand. And because we are men married to Thai women vs foreign women married to a Thai man, we don't have the same path to citizenship (actually, virtually no chance at all) as foreign women. I've paid taxes, and I've contributed to the well being of Thai society is spades as compared to an 'average' Thai. And this is just one point. The OP outlined many points that I have to agree with.

So, this post is worth discussion. Acknowledging the patronage system was an excellent observation. And working within the system to open dialog with Thais in an attempt to change the system for the benefit of both Thais and foreigners who call Thailand their 'home' is not some absurd idea. If enough like minded individuals got together, it would be feasible to 'lobby' the government in an attempt to change the system. It would take time, energy, and immense patience, but doing something is better than blindly accepting the status quo, or simple complaining about it endlessly.

So OP, if this is a call to organize in order to influence the Thai system, consider me in. It's not an impossibility, but it would take a lot of work - although, not the type of work that requires a work permit.

Prayut should enlist the Thonglor Police department to implement the government's new tourism boosting strategy. (Note to Procurement Department: Buy 250,000 more plastic cups).

Dang. More nut-job Thai drivers on the road in the North. Not what we need.

There are ghettos that are "no-go zones" in the US and Europe. The Charlie Hebdo gunmen lived in such a ghetto. Some of the ghettos in Europe do have a lot of Muslims living in them. I think Fox News and other media outlets have probably sensationalized their reporting when they refer to them as Muslim "no-go zones". Still, the Muslims who live in these ghettos are easily radicalized by others, and that's the problem facing the west.

I know for a pasty-white boy like me, West Oakland and East LA in the 1980s were 'no-go zones'.

For crying out loud. Shoot them up with morphine as the first drug then administer the second two. No pain. Or better still, abolish this archaic eye-for-an-eye insanity and do away with sanctioned executions all together.

I am very close to one of the teachers, and unsurprisingly, the Bangkok Post got this -completely- wrong.

My friend had a perfectly legal work permit, as did many other teachers. The article points the finger at the foreign teachers as criminal culprits. The company was at fault, promising legal work and then deliberately dragging feet when it came to sorting out the permit paperwork and expense.

The foreigners are not being held. They were released the next morning after a photoshoot with press. This was obviously just a publicity stunt, and of course, lots of 'fines' were paid. Each teacher was even asked for a US $100 'service charge' for such nice treatment in jail.

As I previously noted, you could probably go to 50% of the public and private schools in CM (or Thailand for that matter) and find the same thing. Work permits and visa promised, but deliberate 'foot-dragging' by the employer on processing the necessary paperwork. "You work now, we get you wisa and work permit soon soon".....ad infinatum.

FYI, glad the teachers got out with a light fine. It could have been worse. However, it should be the employer getting the fine for each teacher. If the new PM wants to take the moral high-ground though, he should start addressing the way employers game the work permit system.