anon8

Just the point I was trying to make (and trying to make in an earlier thread). I can quite understand why "a majority of parents would strongly object" to a straight man leading a group of teenage girl scouts, and vice-versa. I think most of us can. Their "fears" may be groundless and their "worries" may have nothing to do with pedophilia per se, but that doesn't make them any less real or any less valid. .... and IF a straight man should not be leading a group of teenage girl scouts, its equally logical and rational that a gay man should not be leading a group of teenage boy scouts for exactly the same reasons. ... and equally, IF there's nothing wrong with a gay man leading a group of teenage boys there should be nothing wrong with a straight man leading a group of teenage girls, and vice-versa. You can't support or oppose one, rationally, without the other. Its not just about EQUALITY, which is what the authors of these sort of tests bang on about, but about CONSISTENCY - applying the same rules and same "tests" to everyone ... and in the context of scouts, consistency would seem to mean that parents and children should have the choice of girl scouts, boy scouts, or mixed scouts (including boys, girls, special needs, LGBT, all religions, no religions, etc). Equality without consistency is simply a sham. If we excuse our own bigotry on the basis that we're only a small minority so our bigotry doesn't do as much harm as the big majority's, and we don't pay others the same respect in return that we demand from them, then we don't deserve equality.

i agree with each and everything you said. that's why, if this is an answer to a part of my posting,

"like it or not, the fact remains that a majority of parents would strongly object that a gay male or lesbian female leads a group of teenage boy/girl scouts for "outings"."

you are barking up the wrong tree. neither your nor my opinion changes prevailing facts which are based on the indoctrination "gay is bad" and to get rid of this indoctrination an open mind, a very long time and perhaps a whole new generation is needed to overcome any bias. ask an educated non-religious Hindu to eat beef, an educated non-religious Muslim to eat pork or ask an average Joe whether he would like to try a cat stew or deliciously prepared dog embryo.

I am not really getting the analogy in your last sentence, please explain.

...

It is quite clear what side of the fence you're on. No need to belabor the point. Thanks.

I think I would describe myself as an agnostic; or perhaps verging on an atheist.

From my observations, whether God exists or not, you'll benefit in believing in him.

And for sure, if God is omniscient, omnipresent and merciful, then not believing in him will not be a hindrance to entrance to the kingdom of heaven. Unless God is a petty, vindictive, unchristian sort of bloke, which few religions seem to believe that he is...

But for all that, I don't believe in God - I suppose for the absence of a coherent and convincing theory. And also a faith in the absence of the supernatural.

But I'm 99.9999% confident that will not stand me in bad stead at the final day of reckoning

SC

According to Chrisitan belief God will accept anyone and everyone into Heaven as long as you confess your sins (no matter how bad, he will forgive you) and accept him as God and live according to his teachings.

If you chose not to do that then he will not know you and you will not go to Heaven on the day of reckoning.

What about Zeus? What if Zeus says Im ok to enter heaven, but Jesus says no way this bent man will enter. Whos gonna have a final word?

I bet Zeus will kick Jesus's ass, Zeus looks muscular, and in excellent shape in all ancient Greek sculptures.

And wait until Thor shows up, he'll bend both of them over, and while he is having fun with those two, I sneak to heaven.

Ra, Egytpian god of sun will just take pleasure watching, this guy is a know voyer.

I wonder of those that don't believe in God, when you are child/loved one is diagnosed with cancer and the doctors say there is nothing that they can do, would you then pray to God?

I would seek another doctor immediately.

There are many uncurable illnesses. That is part of life. Praying to imaginary man in the sky, or sacrificing a sheep is something that educated, sane person does not do.

It is understandable that people pray to their gods in remote tribal areas in Africa. There are no schools, people have no educAtion in these parts of the world, so it is understandable people there belive in supernatural.

So, only remote people in African tribes with no education should believe in God? So what excuse do you give to highly educated people who believe in God? There are millions, maybe billions of them.

This is what Catholics and Christians believe (probably other religions as well)

Yes, people with no education in undeveloped nations, can be religeous because they do not understand why sun goes down, when it rains at there are floods, they have every right to believe floods are a punishment from god.

In the West and any developed nation, people go to school, they learn physics, people in USA do not think hurricanes are wrath of god.

There is no excuse to belive in supernatural in developed nations, with education system in place. I Europe people believed wiches are the cause of plague, by now science has explained the true cause.

So yes, only people from remote African, SA and other not developed parts of the worlds can be religeous.

In the West, and in any developed nation, there is no excuse to believe in talking snake, 17 virgins, rapture LOL.

You can believe in Jesus, you can believe there is Santa, in the West you are free to belive what you want.

Religeon, just like masturbation, should be practiced in the privacy of your home. That way more people can stay alive.

@ notmyself, how has my statement been demolished? I have simply stated, if there is a God you win, if there isn't, you lose nothing, pray tell how that is demolished? If you choose from whichever gallery you wish, if he/she is there you win, if not, nothing to lose.

You say "if there is a god, you win, if there isn't, you lose nothing"

Tell this to parents of murdered Palestian kid, to mom of murdered Isrealy kid!

In 17th century, men like me were burned alive by Catholics, I doubt that it was fun for the people who were burned alive.

Your quote is simply wrong.

The author of the quote you posted, sees religion as a harmless, fun game. It is anything but.

When it comes to religeon, we all lose. Big time.

This is such a weak argument.

You cannot blame religion for the act of some crazy individuals, this is called generalizing. There are over 2 billion Chrisitans in the world today and 1.6 billion muslims, (over 50% of the worlds population) the vast majority of which do not condone violence. The religion is not to blame, these are the acts of men.

Also, we are doing a good job of killing each other with non religious wars as well,, how many people have been killed over oil or any number of natural resources or territories,, what do you have to say about those killings? Who is to blame for those? It's pretty simple, it's man who is to blame.

Basically, religion is about living in peace to most people and treating fellow man with respect. The flaw in this is that man has a free will and we kill each other for any reason we can find. You should not tarnish religion as a whole as an evil entity because of lunatic suicide bombers etc,,,

So, we do not all lose big time.

Arab Israely conflict is driven only by religeous extremists of both sides. Nobody else!

Sane Israelis are against settlements on Palestinian territories, they want peace. But no, Bibi wont have any of that!

I'm quoting you now: 'you can't blame religeon for the act of some crazy individual, its called generalisation.'

No!

The suicide murderers are not crazy individuals, they are religeous people, the are not crazy (alltho argument can be made that being religeous is form of mental illness).

Suicide murderers are deeply religeous people. All they want is to fight the oppressor by blowing themselves and near by people up, in order to get to heaven, where 17 virgins are waiting this young man.

Your last line, 'no, we do not all lose big time' is simply not true.

Religeon brings only suffering, and misery.

In Africa, how many hundreds of thousands have died of AIDS, because Pope, and his local Catholic bishops in African nations are forbidding use of condoms?

The harm religeon has brought to mankind is immeasurable.

Religeon poisons everithing!

Fear is the mother of all religions.

Religion is the mother of all evil.

Bravo!

I recon if your bent, your bent. and that's it.

So you visit a gay sub forum, you post a comment about what you recon, would you please descifer what you mean by 'bent'? Most non native English speakers have difficulty understanding, and are not familiar with English slang.

Are you man enough to go all the way and use universally used, and understood slur?

I bet you are not!

I recon if your bent, your bent. and that's it.

Bent? Bent how? What does it mean, please?

Sent from my C6802 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Excellent!

Loved the episode when he dropped off his friend at the school in his Jeep Wrangler, and some smartass student was mouthing off at them.. that <deleted> tuffguy student guy was properly humiliated in front of everybody.

The original UK version is a classic!

In Thailand, or atleast BKK, Pattaya, and Phuket, I would wager that Straight males are much much much much more promisuise than gays. Yeah, looking at all of you pattaya folks (including myself). I can go through 20 different girls in half a week in pattaya.

Dont be so sure, brother! There were times I did 20 guys with ease, within few days, could have more probably, but sometimes needed some sleep.

6 guys or so in one night at Sunee is easily doable in Pattaya.

So I think I win!

Sent from my C6802 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I recon if your bent, your bent. and that's it.

Bent? Bent how? What does it mean, please?

Sent from my C6802 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Men being men are by nature more promiscuous. That is if women let men shag them as much as men wanted to, straights would be viewed just as promiscuos. Since they don't, having to take into consideration the more serious fallout of casual affairs (like babies) have to be more thoughtful about sex than guys. The gay women I know are pretty monogamous, so it is not surprising to me that gay men are viewed as prosmiscuous.

Exactly, most men want to get it on, as often as possible, and preferably with good looking men or women, it is males nature. We can learn to control the desire and urges, but they are there.

I couldn't be with someone as jealous as your husband. But people are different, and that's OK

Onthemoon,

You need to accept that we, people who are not married, and not in long term relationships, are not good members of gay community.

We are promiscous, no good sluts, who give nice and loving, commited gay peeps bad name.

In order to be a good gay man, you need to be handcuffed, i mean married, to one guy for 25 years.

Less than that, and you are a bad gay person. Not only hated by homophobes, but also by gay dudes who happen to be in relationship, and think you are not as good as they are

No, I said no such thing. What makes you think that?

Onthemoon, my post was not directed at you at all, I know you never said such thing.

But many gay people who are in long term relationships say it, I can't be sure if they actually believe that, or do they say it in order to feel superior to gay person who is single, and prefers short term, 1hr commitments.

Again, my post had nothing to do with your post, onthemoon!

...

but people tend to follow him like sheep. I guess it's that kind of "well he's smarter then me so he must be right" thinking, it happens a lot with people and even though he would have likely torn me to pieces in a debate about religion this has more to do with his command of the English language then anything else.

Just now I finished reading you post's last paragraph, where you say atheists follow him like a sheep.

Not so!

I was Atheist, and firm believer that endless conflict in mid east between arab jewish, is direct result of religeous extremists of both side.

Atheist do not follow Hitchens like sheep, most admire his clarity of thought and razor shArps mind.

Atheists are not known to blindly follow anybody, wouldn't you agree?

I said in earlier post, all scientists, all physicists admire the genius of Alfred Einstein, they don't follow Einstein like sheep, it is not blind faith, it is admiration.

Christopher Hitchins was (he died of cancer recently) a well educated man who was an author and regular columnist for various magazines (i think Vanity Fair and the Times supplement). He had a fantastic grasp of language and a huge vocabulary which he used with expert precision. He was famous for participating in healthy debates and he had an unrivaled ability to articulate his argument crushing all but the most expert debaters. He wrote a book called "God is not great" which became a best seller and that catapulted him into the "famous atheist" that he was.

I liked listening to him very much but I did not agree with his scathing remarks on religion. He was a clever man with great ability with language and very intimidating to many I am sure, but people tend to follow him like sheep. I guess it's that kind of "well he's smarter then me so he must be right" thinking, it happens a lot with people and even though he would have likely torn me to pieces in a debate about religion this has more to do with his command of the English language then anything else.

Apart from his views on religion I liked him very much though,, you can google his debates, very entertaining.

Thank you! Yesterday I tryed to explain why Hitchens is often quoted, and why he universally admired. His death recently was a sad loss for all men.

His clarity of thought, and his command of language... Listening to him debating, or just speaking is like music.. It is better than music.

I have read his book 'God is not great, and how religeon poisons everything' several times to learn, and to also to English language.

For people didn't follow Hitchens, maybe watch this short intervuew w AC:

Still don't see why any normal (not alcoholic/sexpat) retiree would choose to settle in Pattaya over Bangkok.

I mean, look at it.

It is difficult for some people to understand even the simplest things. No shame in that.

The whole world is getting wilder by the day.Your here 1 minute,ask the teenagers to turn down their music,and gone the next.

Nah, the whole world is prolly not getting wilder.

Thai teens shooting people who they don't like, shooting rival gang members, shooting random people has become a common thing in past few years here.

There is no law enforcment here, and the teens know this very well.

When it comes to religeon, we all lose. Big time.

Whilst I may well agree with you, you haven't established it as being a fact.

We are just chatting here.

If you don't share my view, that when it comes to religeon, we the humanity lose, we all lose, how am I gonna establish that as a fact? You will believe what you want to believe.

All Im saying is that religeon is a cause of misery and suffering for millions of people, who dont deserve their lives being destroyed by religeous lunatics. But it is not a fact. It is my opinion, not a fact.

Facts are a term used in rational world. I feel that being sincerely religeous, not just going to church every Sun as part social life, is a mental illness. But this is only my opinion.

Good night.

Religion fits in here perfectly.

The Muslim man was assured by Imaam in a mosque that there are 17, maybe 70, virgins waiting for him in heaven, if he dies as a marter.

That is a religeous belief.

Do you now see how it fits here?

Who here has claimed all wars are caused by religion? If the last line in your post was directed to me, I ask you not to twist my post.

And he has done it for no other reason except he will be received into Heaven by 17, or maybe 70 or maybe even 12 & 20 Magpies, not for any other belief of self sacrifice, but because an Imam said so? So no, I do not see how it fits, unless you link to a specific incident, even then it doesn't really fit in the overall scheme of things. The Law of Karma fits better, me thinks.

Link a specific incident? Are you really not aware how Hamaz and Hesbolla operate?

This is so very basic, if you had any interest in mid east politics, and Islam.

If you were interested how it works, you have probably already watched a dozen, 2 dozen documentaries from different sources, from Al Jazeera news channel, all the way to great independent documentary makers such as Vice.

No, If you dont know the very basics, I dont know where to even begin, and Im not going to search, and post links for you.

Good night.

@ notmyself, how has my statement been demolished? I have simply stated, if there is a God you win, if there isn't, you lose nothing, pray tell how that is demolished? If you choose from whichever gallery you wish, if he/she is there you win, if not, nothing to lose.

You say "if there is a god, you win, if there isn't, you lose nothing"

Tell this to parents of murdered Palestian kid, to mom of murdered Isrealy kid!

In 17th century, men like me were burned alive by Catholics, I doubt that it was fun for the people who were burned alive.

Your quote is simply wrong.

The author of the quote you posted, sees religion as a harmless, fun game. It is anything but.

When it comes to religeon, we all lose. Big time.

Without committing to answering the question, because why should the question bother you , if no one is bothering you with the question. However I refer to Pascals wager, from memory and only in part in regard to the wager that is: If you believe, and their is a God, you win, if you don't believe and there is no God, you lose nothing. However if you don't believe and there is a God, you gain nothing ( Mossy' addendum to the wager )

That is debatable.People who believe in afterlife, may not live their lives to the fullest. They believe they have all the time in the world in heaven, they believe there is a 2nd chance.But there is zero evidence that there is anything waiting for us, after we die. All we ever gonna have is this short trip, and we should have as much fun as possible, enjoy every pleasure right now, and to the max.So maybe it would be wiser to not to have religious beliefs, and live our lives to the fullest now, live every day. It is very likely that this is it, this life the only chance we have, there is no redoing it, no 2nd act.Last point, and Im quoteing your post:" If you believe, and their is a God, you win, if you don't believe and there is no God, you lose nothing"There was this man, he believed in God, one day this man put on a suicide murder belt with explosives, he entered a pizza place in Tel Aviv, and he killed innocent civilians, kids.Religion often is not just a harmless hobby.

There was this man, he believed in God, one day this man put on a suicide murder belt with explosives, he entered a pizza place in Tel Aviv, and he killed innocent civilians, kids.Religion often is not just a harmless hobby.

I am wondering where religion fits in here. And if someone states because one is Palestinian and the others Israeli, I will be amazed, it smacks with the other codswallop that all wars are created because of religion, come on. I expect better.

Admiring somebody is not faith. Faith is blind belief in supernatural.

Or otherwise. Personally, I have blind faith in all this electron stuff. I've never seen one, but blokes tell me they have, and the light bulbs light up, the sun rises, and the little birds cheep. If I'd gone to a good madrassa, no doubt I could have related all those things to God.

I have complete faith that things unless otherwise supported will fall downwards. Many people believed that before Newton, and not many more, after him.

Anyway, believe what you want.

Quote whom you want, though your own views may be more convincing.

But if you want to avoid conflict, I suggest that you avoid rubbishing the views of others

SC

The 'electron stuff' is plain physics, there is a simple scentific explanation why the lights turn on, after you clicked the switch. No faith required.

Isaac Newton discovered law of gravity, gravity never had anything to do with faith, or beliefs.

You don't like people quoting Christopher Hitchens, you say my thoughts would be more convincing to you. But Hitchens was brilliant man, with mind razor sharp, I could never in 1000 years argue or debate anywhere near his level.

Hitchens is admired and often quoted, and I quoted part of his book title 'Religion poisons everything', because it is very difficult to describing religion more accurately in 3 words.

You posted earlier that to admire and respect a man like Hitchens is like faith, no, it isnt.

Physicists around the world respect and admire Alfred Einstein. That is not faith. That is recognizing a genious.

I haven't 'rubbished' views of others.

I wonder of those that don't believe in God, when you are child/loved one is diagnosed with cancer and the doctors say there is nothing that they can do, would you then pray to God?

I would seek another doctor immediately.

There are many uncurable illnesses. That is part of life. Praying to imaginary man in the sky, or sacrificing a sheep is something that educated, sane person does not do.

It is understandable that people pray to their gods in remote tribal areas in Africa. There are no schools, people have no educAtion in these parts of the world, so it is understandable people there belive in supernatural.

Can you really "respect" other people's religion? Or would it be more accurate to say you acknowledge their religion and you don't care as long as they don't bug you about it?

I can respect it. But please, just like masturbation, it would be polite to practice it in privacy of your home.

You'll need to explain to me again where Buddha taught that Muslims should be murdered,piled into trucks and so forth. I don't blame the bank of England for every robbery involving pound notes.

SC

No, I don't need to explain you anything.

But you for my own amuzment I'll answer.

I have no clue what Buddha, something or somebody that most likely never existed, taught.

I like to read, incl fiction. But ancient boring fairy tales about a man in sky, talking snake, magic underware, bunch of virgins waiting for a suicide bomber in skies, being born again in next life as a kangaroo.. No thanks!

But I watch the news, and I read and watched reports covering murderous rampage in Myanmar in 2012, these murders took place ONLY on religous grounds.

Here is the YT clip about this mass murder: