chantorn

You sure it is normal?

I though the SOE is still in place?

So contradicting.

I must admin I am surprised by all the negative reaction to these killings. Most people seem just fine with the concept of the war on drugs. Thailand kills people all the time over drugs. The catch a mule at the airport, they kill them.

And even if they don't kill them, think of all the people every nation on earth throws in jail all the time for drug offenses. In many places being in jail is about as bad being dead.

So is it the number 2500? Is it the process of how they were executed? Is it Thaksin?

I am against the war on drugs. I think what governments do the their citizens every year over the concept of illegal drugs is shameful. But I know from other topics in TV most posters do not oppose the war on drugs. Many do not oppose the death sentence.

I can see the argument that many of the 2500 did not receive due process, that is a valid argument. But the war on drugs is a violent war (against a passive activity) that governments all over the world bring to bear on the governed regularly. The war on drugs is the pretext for authoritative powers used all the time by ambitious leaders. The single action that would stop the most deaths from drugs is legalization. Drug abuse is a medical and physiological issue, not one of law enforcement.

I guarantee you some posters who support grilling Thaksin over this do not have a problem with dead drug dealers. They will get all up in arms about this, but then act complacent to all the other injustices as a result from the war on drugs.

You missed the point completely. ALOT OF INNOCENT PEOPLE WERE KILLED. They were not all drug dealers! Have you heard of innocent until proven guilty?

I suppose Seh Daeng is guilty too. I am sure the court said that. Or is it the decision of the sniper? Or perhaps the person that order the sniper?

From an PR standpoint, it's also great for the government. Quite a few people(mostly idiot Reds and liberal foreigners) either don't know or have conveniently forgotten the murders committed by Thaksin when he was in power. They always like to talk about the coup that overthrew him but seldom about his misdeeds. I think the 3000 or so deaths(including the killing of the Southern Thais) will remind people what a truly evil person this man is.

What I remember about the war on drugs was that everybody thought it would be a great idea to make Thailand a drug free society to celebrate the King's birthday. I doubt very much that Thaksin was personnaly involved in the Police Operations to obtain this goal and it is just another sign of Abhisit's panic as he realises that he is on the way out and tries desperately to find anything, anything at all, to use as ammunition to keep him in power.

The way he is carrying on now is going to make him a laughing stock around the world if this is a another desperate attempt to involve Interpol in his vain attempts at extraditing Thaksin. Or perhaps he's going to bring criminal charges against individual police officers. Unfortunately that would require evidence which is something usually lacking in Abhisit and Suthep's wild accusations.

You will also remember (if you were in fact here at the time) that there were drug gang wars going on and so how many drug dealers were killed in shoot outs with the Police and how many were killed in shoot outs with other drug dealers would be hard to establish as many of those murders were not classed as being drug related as there was no evidence to confirm that they were in fact drug related. Perhaps the experts on this site can compile lists to present to the Police - I'm sure that they would be grateful.

I think you are wrong. The world is screaming because the police have to call Thaksin personally to confirm all the kill the police were about to pull the trigger. Hence it is Thaksin that directlu order all the 2,500 killing. That is why Mark and the world is so unhappy.

Thaksin should go to jail in ICJ.

Thaksin would just ignore Mark's challenge. Full stop.

It is like saying to your friend "If you are so brave, why don't you stipe naked and walk down the main street at noon". If she doesn't dare to do it, you call her a chicken.

Interpol says no call received to arrest Thaksin

(AFP) – 10 hours ago

LYON, France — Cross-border police agency Interpol said Friday it had received no request to track fugitive Thai ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra and that it would not arrest him on purely "political" grounds.

Thailand said Thursday it would request Interpol's co-operation after it issued an arrest warrant on terrorism charges for Thaksin, whom it accuses of funding protests that led to deadly clashes in Bangkok in recent months.

Interpol's headquarters in Lyon, France, quoted its Secretary General Ronald Noble as saying he had "no knowledge" yet of an official demand from Bangkok for help in the case.

If such a demand were made it would be subject to Interpol's "normal procedure" and referred to the agency's judicial advisers.

A spokesman for Interpol, which helps coordinate investigations between its 188 member countries, told AFP that its statutes forbid it to ask its member states to carry out arrests of a "political nature".

Thaksin was ousted in a 2006 coup and later went into exile to avoid a jail term for corruption. He has been living mainly in Dubai, with visits to other countries including Montenegro, France and Britain.

The Thai government accuses him of inciting unrest and bankrolling rallies by "Red Shirt" opposition protesters which have sparked deadly outbreaks of violence.

Thai deputy prime minister Suthep Thaugsuban said on Thursday that a request for Interpol's help would be sent "so any country that knows of his whereabouts can notify Thailand, so Thailand can begin the extradition procedure".

Thaksin said in a radio interview Wednesday that Interpol would recognise the accusations were "politically motivated".

-- ©Copyright AFP May 28, 2010

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/artic...AKqRrHYBQ8Aw6wg

Excellent.. More loss of face to the Thai government. When will these clowns be put out of their misery I wonder?

He said she said.

Thailand say one thing, interpol say the other.

Who to be trusted?

Thailand government, NBT & CRES 100%.

The funny thing about putting it onto the world stage is that a global audience gets to judge.

Yesterday the reds riots were replaced on the news with the Jamaican government declaring an SOE with multiple deaths caused in order to arrest Christopher Coke (no that is his real name) at the request of the American arrest warrant. This man is wanted on drugs and arms smuggling charges in the US.

Small country trying to clear up drugs under pressure from the US.

Meanwhile, we have the BBC stating "And the Thai government has issued an arrest warrant on charges of terrorism against Mr. Thaksin Shinawat. He was deposed in a coup in 2006".

Small country with very serious interior problems with its democracy and an overactive army.

So tell me, which story do you think the worlds media is finding it easier to get behind?

After the reds last escapade, I would say that politically the Dems are now standing about well above Thaksin in the moral high ground stakes. The reds screwed the pooch 2 weeks ago, and finally after getting put in by army intervention and the such, the dems finally can point the finger at the outrageous reds behaviour.

They still have to get rid of Kasit though.

"And the Thai government has issued an arrest warrant on charges of terrorism against Mr. Thaksin Shinawat. He was deposed in a coup in 2006"

Hahaha. I like the front bit better.

So all these people - except the children - wanted to burn Bangkok, did they?

You lose a lot of credibility when you exaggerate.

Have you heard of guilt by association?

These people have been hearing for weeks, if not months, the leaders whom they so eagarly applaud and support, talking about violent acts. Wouldn't any reason-minded individual think to themselves upon hearing this sort of stuff " hold on a sec, i believe in what we are doing here, but i can't accept those methods and don't wish to be a part of it - i'm going home". If all of those who you are telling us are peaceful people, had thought that way and simply gone home, a lot of the death and destruction might have been avoided. By staying around to pick up their daily tab day after day and adding numbers to the movement it made things worse.

Those reds who didn't get involved in the violence - of which i'm sure there are many - are guilty for what they didn't do, rather than what they did.

Just like the 2 farangs in jail?

" Dressed in orange prison-issue shirt and shorts, barefoot and shackled in leg-irons, a furious Mr Purcell was led in to Pathumwan Municipal Court in Bangkok yesterday, protesting that he was being unlawfully held.

Visibly angry at his detention, Mr Purcell, 29, a former soldier, refused to stand when told and then yelled at the judge that he would not accept the court's right to try him. ''Nobody in this country has authority over me,'' he said.

He brushed aside a representative from the Australian embassy who was asking him to be quiet and continued his tirade, shaking and pointing at the judge. ''I'm not under Thai law. I'm only obeying international law. I'm head of the red gang,'' he yelled.

Jeff Savage, a British man also arrested for his role in the protest, sitting next to Mr Purcell in court, burst into tears."

source: .Sydney Morning Herald.

Not a smart move.

In Thailand, if you just admit to everything the court say (even if it is not true), you get 50% discount for your sin.

Else you get the full treatment.

Will Seh daeng be considered top government leader?

Anyway, it is too late.

He is dead.

No. first because he was not in the government and 2nd because he was a crazy, egotistical zealot who let him self become Thaksins rabid dog. You put down rabid dogs.

But he did get a royal funeral.

As though it really matter for him?

There is another charge that can be brought against Thaksin, namely a crime against Humanity. However I doubt Thai society, being morally blind, will countenance it. I recall that in 2003 almost 2,500 people, including a nine year child were done to death by the Thaksin regime in a so called war against drugs. It later transpired that most of the victims were innocent and to compound the offence the murdered innocents were, and still are, slandered as unrepentant drug dealers. Drawling drawing room Marxist apologists continue to cite that there is no proof to implicate Thaksin or his Ministers. However he was PM and if we employ normal standards of accountability then he and his ministers have a prima facie case of a crime against humanity to answer. Murder on this scale definitely constitutes a Crime against Humanity!

And what would be your conclusion about the death in the last two month?

I agree that murder on this scale definitely constitutes a Crime against Humanity. Thaksin must be trial in ICJ, not Kangaroo court.

Interpol won't act on 'political' arrest warrant

Thaksin denies financing red movement

Former Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra said in a television interview that Interpol would not execute a Thai warrant for his arrest on terrorism charges because it was politically motivated,.

He told Australian Broadcasting Corp by telephone late Wednesday that he had never supported violent protest.

"Interpol have their own criteria to judge, that is, to not be politically motivated. This is clearly politically motivated and there is no ground," he added.

Thaksin said Interpol, the Paris-based international police intelligence-sharing association, would not act on such a groundless and politically motivated warrant.

An Interpol official was not immediately available for comment on Thursday.

The Thai Criminal Court has issued an arrest warrant for Thaksin on terrorism charges for allegedly involving in the red protests in Bangkok that left 88 people dead.

"In my mind, I always advocate ... peaceful protest," he said. "Thailand needs reconciliation."

He described the burning of buildings blamed on his supporters as a "set up."

"The big fire ... must be the work of (a) professional," he said.

He said it was "definitely" not the work of a red shirt and "it must be well planned ahead."

"As an ex-police (officer), I can assure you that this is a well planned and professionally done" act of arson, he said.

Meanwhile he told New York Times he did not finance or organize the Red Shirt movement that had staged a two-month sit-in here.

"No, no, no," he said.

As evidence, he said that during the military crackdown last week when 15 people died, "I was in Paris they sent my picture shopping at Louis Vuitton with my daughter."

After that, as red shirt leaders were being rounded up and arrested in Thailand, he said, he went to the Cannes film festival.

"I am in contact with them, and they ask for advice sometimes," he said, describing his relationship with the protest leaders. Some of those leaders asserted that he was more directly involved.

The telephone interview was one of several media interviews organized by lawyers for Thaksin, who was speaking from an undisclosed location outside Thailand, on the same day they filed an appeal against the terrorism accusation; the charge carries a maximum sentence of death.

"I have been in Uganda, Moscow, Saudi and Lebanon," he said, naming just a few of the countries he has visited on what seems an endless world tour.

"During what is happening in Thailand, I'm traveling for my business in many countries," he said. "How can I become a terrorist?"

-- The Nation 2010-05-27

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Thaksin said Interpol, the Paris-based international police intelligence-sharing association, would not act on such a groundless and politically motivated warrant.

my Thaksin is an impudent man

he is even telling Interpol what they can do

someone should send this article to the Chief at Interpol and see how he feels about a convicted criminal and accused terrorist telling him how to do his job.

Time to get real. how often we had heard some thai government statement/fantasy that interpol will 'bring Thaksin back'. But it never happened.

I guess you failed to realise that Interpol said exactly that about the previous charges on Thaksin ''politically motivated" sme as a lot of othr countries did it and never react on any extradition requests.

its also now time to realise that despite some patrons of beer bars in Thailand there is no international community that sees Thaksin as a paria and an uber mastermind criminal.

Diplomats and state officials in your home countries act sober and will not listen to the opinions of some grumpy old expats in Thailand who hate Thksin for whatever reason (probably for being thai/chinese and having money unlike them).

from the OP, Thai officials finally admit that they never had a chance to 'get' Thaksin with interpol:

"Thai police failed in previous attempts to have Thaksin placed on Interpol's wanted list despite a top court sentencing him to two years jail over the Ratchadaphisek land deal.

Interpol considered the case to be politically motivated,

said Police Maj-General Therdsak Rujirawong, commander of the Royal Thai Police's International Affairs Division."

This time is different.

Thaksin burn down Bangkok and many other cities.

Thaksin also kill 85 people. The army kill zero people.

NO. Bangkok is not save.

Too many snipers around.

Some snipers are not even Thai.

One of them was caught and in jail now is a Australian sniper.

Thaksin did it.

Thaksin is behind the arson attack.

He even phone the terrorists and give them instruction how to light a match.

It's a shame that interpol and other foreign governments have ignored requests to extradite Thaksin and have even aided his fugitive lifestyle. Countries like France and Montenegro that knowingly allow Thaksin on their soil are no better than Afghanistan and are harboring a terrorist leader. Thaksin has the right to defend himself in court and respond to the evidence against him and interpol ought to help him do that.

If Thaksin had committed terrorism against the USA it is likely that they would hunt him and kill him regardless of which country he fled to, I guess he's lucky to be Thai, or Montenegrian, or whatever he claims to be at the moment.

It's because these countries have an independent judiciary...and they don't trump up false charges......grow up...

From "http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/asia-pacific/fugitive-former-thai-leader-warns-of-further-violence/article1581478/":Mr. Thaksin said he believed his enemies would try to kill him if he returned to Thailand. "During my premiership, they tried to assassinate me four times," he said.

I remember two of those four 'attempts', the Thai plane which caught fire while on the ground (got too hot, fuel in wings caught fire?), very vague incident, bomb thrown at his car or so (never got any, but vague details, sounded like trumped up incident).

How many plane just caught fire on the ground, like that in the world? Only one, this one.

Especially when a PM is about to fly on it. Coincidental? Yes, I believe so. Who would want to kill Thaksin.

Will Seh daeng be considered top government leader?

Anyway, it is too late.

He is dead.

To be honest, I think he will be charged with terrorism, and may be given the death penalty. There a Thai saying "Cherd kai hai lin doo or Killed the chicken to scare the monkey".

After a few days in jail, someone will pardon him, and he will be deported straight away. This will show how kind the Thai people is.

No, I start with a correct argument, this government exists only because of the coup.

Surayud government existed because of the coup. Abhisit government exists because of a general election in 2007 that was followed by the dissolving of the PPP and the subsequent shift in power.

Abhisit Government exists because forty Phue Thai elected MPs were bought by the Elite/Military to give Abhisit enough votes to form a coalition government. The forty MPs then formed the Bhunjaithai party. The Bhumjaithai party has never stood for election but are the largest paretner of the coalition parliament.

The original topic of this thread was "Thaksin - Will Interpol act?"

Seems that discusion is less interesting than others, maybe close this thread?

The Reds were not very smart, all they did were to follow the Yellow. Why can't they be more creative?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7585418.stm (old news)

In the many hours that I spent around the fighting and protests I never witnessed any tension or hostilities between the protesters and the ambulance personnel -- they were shoulder to shoulder like brothers in arms. I have video footage on the night of May 14th at Soi Rangnam where Vajira Hospital medical personnel attempted to rescue a dead person and being shot at multiple times, taking great risk, but made it out. On the very next day a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army, I believe in the same location. It seems to be an indication of media manipulation to say that Reds and Army "alike" were anti-medical personnel. Apparently this is a lie to cover up the truth.

Somtumtiger and hammerred, your comments show your lack of honesty as well as where your loyalty lies, duly noted.

"...............a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army............"

As you're not sure of the location, is it not reasonable to assume that you did not witness this event? Yet you blame the army, with no grounds for this belief given, or even a suggestion that it may not have been the army or that the incident was accidental.

Your red slip is showing, again.

Tell that to the journalists who saw the nurse shot in the back by the army at the Temple.

Did they specificaly SEE a soldier draw down on her and fire?

Or was she just seen to be shot,

with no clear sense of direction and shooter.

But it seems to be assumed that the army did it, and it was intentional.

If the army was really out for blood that day, hundreds would have died.

You may need your girlfriend to translate for you

To be honest, I don't believe these 2 videos. I think the Red shoot themselves (in the foot) and try to blame Mark.

In the many hours that I spent around the fighting and protests I never witnessed any tension or hostilities between the protesters and the ambulance personnel -- they were shoulder to shoulder like brothers in arms. I have video footage on the night of May 14th at Soi Rangnam where Vajira Hospital medical personnel attempted to rescue a dead person and being shot at multiple times, taking great risk, but made it out. On the very next day a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army, I believe in the same location. It seems to be an indication of media manipulation to say that Reds and Army "alike" were anti-medical personnel. Apparently this is a lie to cover up the truth.

Somtumtiger and hammerred, your comments show your lack of honesty as well as where your loyalty lies, duly noted.

Did you see the soldier who sighted his rifle and shot the person in the head? How far away was he? I do not ask as a propagandist demanding absolute proof, you are certainly entitled to you opinion that soldiers may have shot someone. I only ask because it is such a critical question. I would really like to know. I find it hard to believe the Army would be behind such systematic killing of so many rescue workers. If there is more than circumstantial evidence I think it should be clearly stated. If it seemed to be the soldiers, without proof, that too should be stated.

Same same. Don't be so 1 sided.

Did you see a red-shirt who sighted his rifle and shot the person in the head? How far away was he? I do not ask as a propagandist demanding absolute proof, you are certainly entitled to you opinion that red-shirt may have shot someone. I only ask because it is such a critical question. I would really like to know. I find it hard to believe the red-shirt would be behind such systematic killing of so many rescue workers. If there is more than circumstantial evidence I think it should be clearly stated. If it seemed to be the red-shirts, without proof, that too should be stated.

Unfortunately, I don't find it at all hard to believe that redshirts were behind the killing of resuce workers. They violated a hospital in the past, they disregarded the idea that the temple was a place of sanctuary and non violence when they attacked the reporter for the French TV station and they put a pre planned plot to burn buildings into action and attacked the media. These things lead me to believe that planned violence and a disregard of accepted conventions on what are not acceptable targets are part of their tactics.

The hospital always say they are neutral, and no soldiers are allow in the hospital ever. Not even during WW2.

Min 0:55 in this clip

"We also seen MULTIPLE snipers on top of Chula Hospital, and also on top of one of the bank over there. They are not even hiding, just training their guns"

In the many hours that I spent around the fighting and protests I never witnessed any tension or hostilities between the protesters and the ambulance personnel -- they were shoulder to shoulder like brothers in arms. I have video footage on the night of May 14th at Soi Rangnam where Vajira Hospital medical personnel attempted to rescue a dead person and being shot at multiple times, taking great risk, but made it out. On the very next day a person from the same Hospital crew was shot in the head and killed by the army, I believe in the same location. It seems to be an indication of media manipulation to say that Reds and Army "alike" were anti-medical personnel. Apparently this is a lie to cover up the truth.

Somtumtiger and hammerred, your comments show your lack of honesty as well as where your loyalty lies, duly noted.

Did you see the soldier who sighted his rifle and shot the person in the head? How far away was he? I do not ask as a propagandist demanding absolute proof, you are certainly entitled to you opinion that soldiers may have shot someone. I only ask because it is such a critical question. I would really like to know. I find it hard to believe the Army would be behind such systematic killing of so many rescue workers. If there is more than circumstantial evidence I think it should be clearly stated. If it seemed to be the soldiers, without proof, that too should be stated.

Same same. Don't be so 1 sided.

Did you see a red-shirt who sighted his rifle and shot the person in the head? How far away was he? I do not ask as a propagandist demanding absolute proof, you are certainly entitled to you opinion that red-shirt may have shot someone. I only ask because it is such a critical question. I would really like to know. I find it hard to believe the red-shirt would be behind such systematic killing of so many rescue workers. If there is more than circumstantial evidence I think it should be clearly stated. If it seemed to be the red-shirts, without proof, that too should be stated.

Actually he's charged as a terrorists partially because of the contents of his speeches, partially because of financing terrorists (some UDD leaders, late Seh Daeng) and terrorists acts (M79's, MiB, torching government buildings) Plus a few more things. Don't try to pin me down on a single word. For that you should join the censure debate next week.

Can people clarify what financial assistance he's been known to give the red shirts? There's the classic youtube video of him offering money for them to participate in the demonstrations now?

I think it was in audio, or tweet, or the like that he acknowledged helping his supporters out a bit. No video. If you want details, google yourself.

Many people donate to the Red-shirt.

Including Farang.

So they can also be arrested for being a terrorist?

Can people clarify what financial assistance he's been known to give the red shirts? There's the classic youtube video of him offering money for them to participate in the demonstrations now?

It is alleged that he give out hundred of millions for the poor people ti sit in Bangkok.

Kind of Robin Hood of Thailand.

I don't know who to believe.

If Interpol act then it will show them to be supporting and condoning an illegitimate government.

Therefore, it would be in Interpol's best interest to ignore the request of the Thai government(?).

Where is the proof of Thaksin's terrorist activities? Giving a few non committal sermons to the folks back home cannot be seen as a blatant terrorist activity.

What about all those religious people, both in the US and the UK who shout and scream for the downfall of the wicked leaders in the west, they are left alone.

Paper trails would be evidence of Thaksin giving money to the reds, but there are no paper trails, therefore no evidence.

Look at Thaksin's sermons to the faithful, they are fiery but he draws back from actually saying anything of a terroristic nature. Has anyone seen him standing in front the camera with a gun in one hand and a grenade in the other calling on people to kill the Democrat pigs?

Without solid proof, its all hearsay and smoke, cooked up by politicians in Bangkok. Yes, we all know what he's up to and was doing, but you got to have solid proof, without evidence there's nothing but hot air and stupid, endless debates.

I am sure there is proof.

Else Thai court will not approve DSI request.

Thai court have to be fair too, not just DSI, CRES & Mark.

You maybe sure but I think that all tracks have been cleverly covered especially after the share case.

Thai courts get their orders from higher up in the food chain, so the government will just simply lean on the judge to cooperate.

Thai court fair, well yes, when you pay the price.

How can Thai court be not fair.

They don't just read out a simple guilty/innocent verdict.

When they read out a verdict, they also spend out 8 to 10 hours reading out the reason behind, and all the evident that lead to a verdict.

LIVE on free TV.

So if they are not fair, the Thai people would have already point it out.

Either that, or you are saying that NO Thai people is smart enought to understand the reason behind, and all the evident that lead to a verdict?

Speaking of his own embassy, it's a shame he didn't heed the advice from May 3rd and get the heck out of town:

But the Australian Embassy has raised doubts over Purcell's background. Investigations are reported to question his university and military experience, and that he was not a member of the Army reserves, sources told AAP.

The English language Bangkok Post, quoting an embassy source, said Purcell's behaviour and public statements were disturbing and he had been advised to return to Australia. He's actually broken quite a few Thai laws, the report said.

The Sydney Morning Herald from May 3, 2010

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world...00503-u3jt.html

Over the radio (MCOT 96.5) news talk show, they say he has sniper training when he was in the Army. He could be the one shooting the innocent at the temple where they found 6 dead bodies.

Great powers of Deduction......................................not!

Never let the truth get in the way of a good (war) story.

Outstandinng work MCOT 96.5, take a pound out of the till for yourself.

I don't think I understand the phase "take a pound out of the till for yourself."???

I just saw news somewhere that the Thai government confirm that the Australian is a sniper.

I'll try to get the link for you guys asap.

If Interpol act then it will show them to be supporting and condoning an illegitimate government.

Therefore, it would be in Interpol's best interest to ignore the request of the Thai government(?).

Where is the proof of Thaksin's terrorist activities? Giving a few non committal sermons to the folks back home cannot be seen as a blatant terrorist activity.

What about all those religious people, both in the US and the UK who shout and scream for the downfall of the wicked leaders in the west, they are left alone.

Paper trails would be evidence of Thaksin giving money to the reds, but there are no paper trails, therefore no evidence.

Look at Thaksin's sermons to the faithful, they are fiery but he draws back from actually saying anything of a terroristic nature. Has anyone seen him standing in front the camera with a gun in one hand and a grenade in the other calling on people to kill the Democrat pigs?

Without solid proof, its all hearsay and smoke, cooked up by politicians in Bangkok. Yes, we all know what he's up to and was doing, but you got to have solid proof, without evidence there's nothing but hot air and stupid, endless debates.

I am sure there is proof.

Else Thai court will not approve DSI request.

Thai court have to be fair too, not just DSI, CRES & Mark.