Shower Breaker Switch

[Satcommlee]

I wired my home myself and to a very good standard in my opinion (I'm qualified in Electrical Engineering) it's all fully Earthed, all 3 pin sockets etc..

 

Howeve, there was one thing I overlooked and I don't know if it regulation or not in Thailand...

 

I'm kicking myself because I forgot to put acessible 30 Amp isolator switches outside the bathrooms, so the only breaker is the one in the Master Distribution Box (at least it is protected by RCD etc..)

 

I've not yet installed the showers but the cabling is now not accessible - I've seen some dreadful installations over my years here but I do know there is such thing as regulation in Thailand :-)

 

So I wonder if anyone (Crossy???) can advise is this a requirement of the electrical code?

 

Cheers

 

Lee

[tutsiwarrior]

most electric showers have an ELCB integral to the unit with its own ground for safety purposes...

 

 

[Crossy]

7 hours ago, Satcommlee said:

So I wonder if anyone (Crossy???) can advise is this a requirement of the electrical code?

There is, as far as I can tell, no requirement for local isolation of water heaters or aircons, we don't have it and had no problem with our PEA inspection.

 

So long as you're RCD protected in the board I wouldn't worry.

[Satcommlee]

Thanks Guys..

 

I'll be sure to send the Mrs in first for the switching on ceremony :-)

 

Lee

[shaemus]

On 9/5/2017 at 7:51 AM, Crossy said:

There is, as far as I can tell, no requirement for local isolation of water heaters or aircons, we don't have it and had no problem with our PEA inspection.

 

So long as you're RCD protected in the board I wouldn't worry.

So as long as your cable is protected with an MCB and or an RCD or a similar combination, the cable size and earth size is suitable for voltage drop and Fault loop Impedance. then your protective device should protect you in the occurrence of a fault in under or equal the recommended time scale. As an electrical engineer i am sure you wont be relying on the manufacturer of the protective device for to be working correctly, you will have performed all of the relevant tests before energising the circuit (dead tests) and have performed a full RCD test also you will have performed the fault loop test as well.

 

As for Local Standards No one seems to have a copy in English, so i am not sure how anyone would be able to tell you what is in them.

 

The point is you put your life (potentially) in the hands of a $10 RCD, RCCB or RCBO . Don't you want to know if its working or not?

 

Just pushing the button wont tell you if it is working to minimum requirements

 

RCD's are certainly very good at protecting people  but vunerble, i will give you an example, on a Very large project that i worked on, the camp  for the workers had a mass of electrical issues, people were getting shocked regularly from the bathroom doors. The regulator got involved and demanded all the RCD's etc be be tested on the whole installation,  3500 rooms. each with multiple RCBO's in each Consumer Unit, Over 50% didn't function properly. and had to be replaced. 

 

As for the Isolator, it wouldn't hurt would it?

 

 

[Crossy]

@shaemus I cannot disagree with your assertions above.

 

BUT

 

This is the DIY forum, how many DIYers, even back home, have the resources to test their RCDs to spec? OK, back home their sparks should have the gear but here?

 

How many domestic sparkies in Thailand even have a multimeter, let alone some means of testing an RCD (or for that matter know what an RCD does)? Not many at the 500 Baht a day level I'm afraid.

 

Taking a pragmatic approach, pressing the "Test" button at least give some confidence it's working and has a chance of being wired correctly.

 

50 minutes ago, shaemus said:

As for Local Standards No one seems to have a copy in English, so i am not sure how anyone would be able to tell you what is in them.

Some people can read Thai oddly enough and some of them are very competent engineers. You can't just give something like this to a translation service, the result will be, shall we say, iffy. My staff spend far too much time fixing poor translations (from Thai into English) of requirements rather than actually doing the engineering work they're paid for.

 

No, the isolator won't hurt (make it an RCBO for extra protection), but that wasn't the question was it?

 

As I've noted in the past, I would love for this forum to be unnecessary with all local electricians certified and competent, no need for DIYers or worried non-DIYers to ask questions. Sadly that is not the case.

 

Please continue to contribute, all professional input is more than welcome, but please remember we're not in Kansas any more.

 

[shaemus]

8 minutes ago, Crossy said:

This is the DIY forum, how many DIYers, even back home, have the resources to test their RCDs to spec? OK, back home their sparks should have the gear but here?

 

You can't make a silk purse from a sows ear. 

 

I agree this is a DIY forum and obviously the persons using it are asking questions because they don't have access to a reliable & decent Sparky or a sparky that they trust. 

 

I am willing to contribute and as a fully qualified and practicing electrician will give my opinion based on what is currently required as a minimum standard in where i work the most which is Australia and my experience. Personally i enjoy the Inspection & testing side of things more than pulling cables.

 

There is obviously a huge difference in between local (thai) installations and ones i might be used to. But 1 thing is for sure: Electricity works the same way the world over and it doesn't discriminate as to who it hurts .

 

On 9/5/2017 at 0:49 AM, Satcommlee said:

Howeve, there was one thing I overlooked and I don't know if it regulation or not in Thailand...

 

I'm kicking myself because I forgot to put acessible 30 Amp isolator switches outside the bathrooms, so the only breaker is the one in the Master Distribution Box (at least it is protected by RCD etc..)

Q: "I don't know if it regulation or not in Thailand ?"

 

Answer i should have given:I don't have the regs nor can i read thai to answer your question with 100% accuracy. Overseas this would be a requirement in some circumstances. It sounds like you have diligently installed a system that should cut out in the event of a fault. The islolator would only be installed so you can quickly turn off the power to its load (shower) or if you need to or you may want to perform some maintenance on the equipment. It is off course up to you to install one if you wish and Mr Crossy has stated that he doesn't have one and passed his PEA inspection no problem. You also stated that he cabling is not longer accessible  so it may be a massive pain to access the cable through the plasterboard ( hammer) and repair/ make good your ceiling/wall or just not bother and you may now find not enough slack in the cable to add your isolator.

In my experience with on demand showers they certainly suck some current so if your cable is sized correctly then you shouldn't have a problem with the water not heating properly.

 

All the best & Stay safe 

 

and don't borrow Neutrals 

[Crossy]

7 minutes ago, shaemus said:

There is obviously a huge difference in between local (thai) installations and ones i might be used to.

AS3000 is actually pretty close to how it's (supposed to be) done here (at least on the installations we mostly deal with), I don't think you'll go far wrong using it as a reference.

 

7 minutes ago, shaemus said:

But 1 thing is for sure: Electricity works the same way the world over and it doesn't discriminate as to who it hurts .

Abso-****ing-lutely!

 

EDIT One other thing to consider, many of our members rent, they don't want to be pouring pots into fixing something that's not theirs, just spend enough to make it, at least reasonably, safe.

 

[Satcommlee]

Thanks all for the input, it is very much appreciated..

 

Thai Sparkies seem to turn up with only a tester screwdriver, sidecutters, and black tape..

 

I know there are good ones but in the house I am building in the jungle, there is no-one around.

 

I also ring-mained but kept them on 20 Amp breakers, and isolated the kitchen circuits..

 

The PEA guy was very surprised by the presence of the Green 10mm Earth from the Neutral incomer - but I think that is correct. Well nothing gone bang yet..

 

It was 20 years ago I finished electrical and electronic Engineering and moved into the communications field so am rusty.

 

Lee

[Crossy]

@Satcommlee if you split your rings about half way round and move one half to another 20A MCB you get twice as much power (think kitchen) for almost no work and very little cost