UK wedding, move to thailand, pre nup required?

[oldwelshman]

Hi all.

I am moving to Thailand far sooner than expected, with n a couple of months.

We had already planned to wed in UK before leaving to save hassle of legal wedding in Thailand.

Apparently, in Thai law, following our wedding, post wedding everything is 50/50 or maybe 49/51. Can someone confirm this?

I have read it is better we get a pre nup agreement which we could get signed in UK registry office?

I am only concerned should anything happen to Mrs that I could end up loosing house we build to relatives?

[catman20]

hope so

[steve187]

maybe a usefruct, lease or something in wife's will will do the job, surely a pre nup would only cover a divorce.

[happylarry]

If you get divorced then In Thai law the assets aquired during the marriage is generally divided 50/50.

But you need to get your wife to draw up a legal will and leave all assets to yourself and then you are the legal owner and have one year to sell the house or transfer the ownership to a Thai person.

Also it is best to get your wife to grant you a usufruct on the property which gives you the right to stay at the property for life whoever owns it.

HL

[Khun Paul]

Simple answer,  yes to protect your UK assets.

[Toscano]

pre-nuptuals in Britain is a very wise idea .  In the event of divorce , you would have to divorce in Britain .

With regard to Thai law , technically you are correct , but you cannot count on anything .

The house you built will be registered in your wife's name , she will be able to mortgage it to the hilt .

With regard to 50/50 or 49/51 you would be lucky to get anything beyond furnishings you bought , or what you own in the UK or bring to Thailand .

I hope you have all the bills that you paid to construct the house .

You will of course have a retirement visa , that will allow you to live anywhere in Thailand , or remain in your Thai home in the event of your wife dying before you .  happylarry is right , that you should get your wife to grand a usufruct giving you the right to live in the property for your life , without other members of the family unless by your consent .  My wife already had her own house , which I have renovated , she will leave it to her daughter and son-in-law who love me as a father and would take care of me in the event of mother dying before me .

Thailand to visit and Thailand to live are two different things , so be ware , many come here full of love ; Thailand isn't Utopia , many men have lost their all to their wives , leave all your main assets in Britain 

[Autonuaq]

The law is simple. Thailand did sign and does apply the international laws regarding marriage too.

 

So like in western europe when you move from the UK to Germany for example 

If you want to keep the law of the country you are married under you have to register your choice of rights within 10 years after you moved into the country of your new residence.

 

Be wise and do it directly. That protect you from having that after 10 years the laws of the new country of residence automatically apply to you marriage. The law makes that this happens and you can prevent it by registering the choice of rights that apply to the marriage.

In the case you have UK or Thai.

You do nothing after 10 years Thai law applies and then governs over all you assets also in the UK.

 

You also have for the Thai national to register the marriage in Thailand too. This is an administrative procedure in most cases. And in general the marriage will be registered.

All documents needed need to be certified and translated in to Thai. Stamped and then filed by the Ampur or other authorities if this has been changed.

 

Regarding divorce also very simple.

The country both are living is entitled to file for divorce as well the country the marriage originally took place.

Then register the divorce in the UK as well in Thailand.

Since Thailand it is go to the Ampur and register if both agree on all terms that is the quickest and cheapest was.

 

Be smart and register the choice of rights as soon as possible after you moved.

 

Registration is different per country. The Ampur can help you in this.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Autonuaq

[renaissanc]

People seem to be giving you good advice. It's worth bearing in mind in regard to marriage and property ownership here, "What could happen, may well happen." Do what you can to prevent being kicked out of the house at any time. It just needs a relative who has gambled away every Baht and who needs money urgently to start the process of having you kicked out so that the house can be sold to pay off the gambling debts. Prepare for even such "unlikely but possible" eventualities.

[oldwelshman]

Thanks for replies.

I do understand how and why many guys have hit trouble in Thailand and I am going there with eyes wide open :-) I have been there several times with partner. I am not retiring to pattaya or BK with a bar girl lol My partner has been in UK 14 years and we met here and she is UK citizen also.

She has saved over the years and bought 16 rai and built house for her family and we are building on land next to this.

I am not retiring there yet, I am working in Asia soon for few years before retire but my "home" will be there when not working.

I/we will have a will before we move and prob get a pre nup done and will take advice on board.

I am not worried about divorce, more about (hopefully not) if anything happened to wife.

I will still have a house and a flat in UK which in will are left between my kids.

Anything in Thailand will go to my wife if anything happens to me.

[happylarry]

A will before you move....do you mean a UK will?

You do realise that you will need (or at least it would be best to) to make a Thai will for your assets in Thailand dont you.

You need to make things as easy as possible for the surviving partner and having to deal with lawyers courts etc from 7,000 miles away is not easy.

HL

[UnkleMoooose]

If you are marrying a Thai woman, you could consider registering that you are not of sound mind. An insanity plea later when divorcing may work in your favor.

[Jip99]

Happy Larry has the correct answers; but to summarize, you are only concerned about Thai assets in the event of the death of your wife. You do not care about divorce or U.K. assets which are bequeathed to your kids.

 

A Will executed by wife as described by Happy Larry. The usufruct is unnecessary, it is your wife's land and you seem happy to pay for the house to be built (fair enough) in exchange for the Will. IF, you want to retain the right to reside (more than one year) after the death of your wife then a usufruct/superficiary  would be necessary.

[khunPer]

1 hour ago, oldwelshman said:

Thanks for replies.

I do understand how and why many guys have hit trouble in Thailand and I am going there with eyes wide open :-) I have been there several times with partner. I am not retiring to pattaya or BK with a bar girl lol My partner has been in UK 14 years and we met here and she is UK citizen also.

She has saved over the years and bought 16 rai and built house for her family and we are building on land next to this.

I am not retiring there yet, I am working in Asia soon for few years before retire but my "home" will be there when not working.

I/we will have a will before we move and prob get a pre nup done and will take advice on board.

I am not worried about divorce, more about (hopefully not) if anything happened to wife.

I will still have a house and a flat in UK which in will are left between my kids.

Anything in Thailand will go to my wife if anything happens to me.

You will need an UK Last Will for your assets in UK, and a Thai Last Will for your assets in Thailand – the last can be written in English, but need Thai translation for the Court; best to have a dual language Thai Last Will. 

 

I my Wills, I stated about that a Thai Will shall cover my Thai property, in my home country's Will; and in my Thai Will, that I have a home country Will covering my belongings there. If no Last Will, heirs may be able to make claims and postpone the settlement of the estate; just a simple, and easy to understand Will may solve any problems.

 

A pre-nup is always a good idea, especially if anything shall be shared different from 50/50, or if one, or both parts brings values into the marriage; clearly specified that can solve a lot of problems, in case...

 

If the house is in your wife's name (as landowner), she may need to make a Thai Last Will, as otherwise the house may be split with 50% to husband (you), and 50% to children (or other blood relatives). A usufruct agreement or a superficies agreement can prevent many problems, but contracts between husband and wife, can be declared void. Furthermore a worst case scenario is a house build on family land, and a family that want that land – even with a valid agreement, it may not be a pleasure to live in such a house. 

Best is to talk to a lawyer, and have paperwork done as early as possible during the process, even before marriage, may be preferable.

 

A house in Thailand can be owned by a foreigner, but not the land under the house. If you are building a house, you could state in a pre-nup that the house is build for your funds, and that it's your estate only; in case of divorce, whilst testamentally the house goes to your wife. You may prefer a superficies agreement for permission to build a house on somebody's land. The only proof of ownership of a new build house is that all architect drawings, building permission, all building constructor contracts, and all payment receipts (bank transfers), etc., carries your name only. Keep it all safely, as it's your only proof of ownership. When issuing a Blue House Book for the house and it's Thai residents, that book need not to name a master-of-the-household; which can be your name, as master-of-household in a Yellow House Book for aliens. It's not in any way a registration of ownership of the house, but another little step together with the mandatory drawings, building permission, and payment receipts; furthermore only you can approve Thai residents in the Blue House Book.

 

But it's often really down to trusting ones partner, and we seem to hear and read more of – probably fewer in number – horror stories, than all the good stories. However, the worst, and long time planned, rip off cases I know, are all made my decent women from good families...

 

I wish you good luck with your marriage and future in Thailand...

[natway09]

Same in the UK. After you are married any assets after this time are 50/50 unless by pre signed 

agreement so a prenup to protect your assets is a wise idea but would not stop her relatives taking 

possession of her home in the case of your sad demise.. Get the law to kick them out,,,,, good luck with that

[oldwelshman]

12 hours ago, UnkleMoooose said:

If you are marrying a Thai woman, you could consider registering that you are not of sound mind. An insanity plea later when divorcing may work in your favor.

Very constructive advice :-) obviously worked for you in your many marriages?

[oldwelshman]

11 hours ago, khunPer said:

You will need an UK Last Will for your assets in UK, and a Thai Last Will for your assets in Thailand – the last can be written in English, but need Thai translation for the Court; best to have a dual language Thai Last Will. 

 

I my Wills, I stated about that a Thai Will shall cover my Thai property, in my home country's Will; and in my Thai Will, that I have a home country Will covering my belongings there. If no Last Will, heirs may be able to make claims and postpone the settlement of the estate; just a simple, and easy to understand Will may solve any problems.

 

A pre-nup is always a good idea, especially if anything shall be shared different from 50/50, or if one, or both parts brings values into the marriage; clearly specified that can solve a lot of problems, in case...

 

If the house is in your wife's name (as landowner), she may need to make a Thai Last Will, as otherwise the house may be split with 50% to husband (you), and 50% to children (or other blood relatives). A usufruct agreement or a superficies agreement can prevent many problems, but contracts between husband and wife, can be declared void. Furthermore a worst case scenario is a house build on family land, and a family that want that land – even with a valid agreement, it may not be a pleasure to live in such a house. 

Best is to talk to a lawyer, and have paperwork done as early as possible during the process, even before marriage, may be preferable.

 

A house in Thailand can be owned by a foreigner, but not the land under the house. If you are building a house, you could state in a pre-nup that the house is build for your funds, and that it's your estate only; in case of divorce, whilst testamentally the house goes to your wife. You may prefer a superficies agreement for permission to build a house on somebody's land. The only proof of ownership of a new build house is that all architect drawings, building permission, all building constructor contracts, and all payment receipts (bank transfers), etc., carries your name only. Keep it all safely, as it's your only proof of ownership. When issuing a Blue House Book for the house and it's Thai residents, that book need not to name a master-of-the-household; which can be your name, as master-of-household in a Yellow House Book for aliens. It's not in any way a registration of ownership of the house, but another little step together with the mandatory drawings, building permission, and payment receipts; furthermore only you can approve Thai residents in the Blue House Book.

 

But it's often really down to trusting ones partner, and we seem to hear and read more of – probably fewer in number – horror stories, than all the good stories. However, the worst, and long time planned, rip off cases I know, are all made my decent women from good families...

 

I wish you good luck with your marriage and future in Thailand...

Cheers

As you suggest plan a will in UK and Thailand. Assets in Thailand will be left for wife and I will seek advice for all these. The land next door is all hers and we paid half each for land we build on so as you suggest on death she would get it, if we do divorce ( not even married yet lol ) then 50/50.

[khunPer]

53 minutes ago, oldwelshman said:

Cheers

As you suggest plan a will in UK and Thailand. Assets in Thailand will be left for wife and I will seek advice for all these. The land next door is all hers and we paid half each for land we build on so as you suggest on death she would get it, if we do divorce ( not even married yet lol ) then 50/50.

You are aware, that a foreigner cannot hold land in Thailand, so your share need to be sold within 12 month – same in case of your live longer than your wife – that's why a superficies (or like, for example usufruct) agreement may protect you better, and if you pay all house, also having that in your name. If you wife already own the land in her name before marriage, even you paid half, and you don't write a pre-nup, you may not have a 50% share in case of divorce. If you wish to protect yourself, you should talk to a Thai lawyer before marriage...

[oldwelshman]

2 hours ago, oldwelshman said:

Very constructive advice :-) obviously worked for you in your many marriages?

Yes understand that, hence my reply above, will do 2 wills, one UK and one thai for each of us and usufruct in Thailand although I won't do that until I am there in couple of months, but will do it before building. Will also do prenup.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 9:41 AM, Toscano said:

you should get your wife to grand a usufruct giving you the right to live in the property for your life , without other members of the family unless by your consent .  

Try living in a village house if the family don't want you to- impossible.

Better to buy a house to live in far, far away from the family, and anywhere the family won't want to live in. Not referring to the adoring children of course.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, oldwelshman said:

Cheers

As you suggest plan a will in UK and Thailand. Assets in Thailand will be left for wife and I will seek advice for all these. The land next door is all hers and we paid half each for land we build on so as you suggest on death she would get it, if we do divorce ( not even married yet lol ) then 50/50.

I believe that it is illegal for any farang to try and circumvent Thai land law by paying for it. Has to be all her money.

Far as I know you can gift her the money, but you have ZERO right to the land. You only get 50% of the house and nothing for the land.

 

Wish my country government was as farsighted as the Thais.

 

Assets in Thailand will be left for wife and I will seek advice for all these

Unless it's something really valuable like a condo or another house, why bother? No one is going to come from a foreign land and start demanding the car or the fridge, surely?

 

Have you lived long time in Thailand? Are you aware of the potential problems owning valuable assets while married?

If not, you seem to be following the well worn path to doom that so many of us have suffered already.

If you haven't already, read the "Poisonous brother in law" thread on the Farang Pub sub forum. Much to consider there.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 2:38 PM, Jip99 said:

Happy Larry has the correct answers; but to summarize, you are only concerned about Thai assets in the event of the death of your wife. You do not care about divorce or U.K. assets which are bequeathed to your kids.

 

A Will executed by wife as described by Happy Larry. The usufruct is unnecessary, it is your wife's land and you seem happy to pay for the house to be built (fair enough) in exchange for the Will. IF, you want to retain the right to reside (more than one year) after the death of your wife then a usufruct/superficiary  would be necessary.

Seems to me that if one is choosing to live anywhere near the family, a usufruct is unnecessary. Either they love one enough to willingly allow the farang to stay in the house, or they don't, in which case no usufruct will be of use. I'm not going into the actions that can be taken against the unwelcome farang, but anyone been in Thailand a while is aware of what can happen, with no recourse to the law, or worse.

However, if the family live north of Uttaradit, and the farang buys a house in Pattaya or further south, and preferably with only one bedroom and a lounge too small for them to camp in, he should be reasonably safe. Helps if not near a university or tech so the young family members can't move in while they "study".

If I learned only one thing from my failed marriage, it is that nothing is certain, and if the family set their mind to it, they will always succeed, and a mere farang will always fail.

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I believe that it is illegal for any farang to try and circumvent Thai land law by paying for it. Has to be all her money.

Far as I know you can gift her the money, but you have ZERO right to the land. You only get 50% of the house and nothing for the land.

 

Wish my country government was as farsighted as the Thais.

 

Assets in Thailand will be left for wife and I will seek advice for all these

Unless it's something really valuable like a condo or another house, why bother? No one is going to come from a foreign land and start demanding the car or the fridge, surely?

 

Have you lived long time in Thailand? Are you aware of the potential problems owning valuable assets while married?

If not, you seem to be following the well worn path to doom that so many of us have suffered already.

If you haven't already, read the "Poisonous brother in law" thread on the Farang Pub sub forum. Much to consider there.

 

 

A Will for Thailand, if married, is only really of use if you own a condo, car or bank deposits I.e. 800k for retirement extension. Probate will still be required in most cases but I would suggest that a Will just makes things a bit clearer. Dying intestate in Thailand is no real issue - unless you have kids and want your wife to inherit. 

 

Not it having a Will in Thailand (and vice-versa for U.K. assets) just leaves an opening for people to make claims that you otherwise may not have wanted, or expected. It happens.....