Let’s see the junta’s exit strategy

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

Let’s see the junta’s exit strategy

By The Nation

 

Bhichai is in a sharing mood, but Thailand will make no progress until democratic institutions are restored
 

It is high time that Thais abandoned the notion that the government is there to solve national crises. The unhappy truth is that Thai governments have never done so, instead merely relying on the promise to act in order to justify undemocratic political action.

 

Former Democrat Party leader Bhichai Rattakul at the weekend floated the idea of the major political parties – Democrat, Pheu Thai and Bhumjaithai – forming a government with the military for the sake of national reconciliation.

 

The veteran politician’s intentions might have been good – everyone wants to see the rift closed – but his suggestion drew a negative response. Someone else in his own party said the Democrats could not work with Pheu Thai. The Pheu Thai has made it clear it is not prepared to work with the military.

 

It didn’t help matters that Bhichai was contradicting his earlier proposal that the political parties pool efforts to get the military out of politics.

 

That idea seemed more democratic at least, but it too was unviable, since the Democrats would be quite comfortable sharing Cabinet posts with the generals. (Again, the Pheu Thai would not.) Bhichai thus had a change of heart, but his suggestion that the military retain its leading role in politics is utterly counterproductive for democracy.

 

The military junta – the National Council for Peace and Order –cited government corruption and the violence that had overtaken the political dispute as its pretexts for staging the 2014 coup, which replaced an elected civilian government with an authoritarian regime.

 

In the years since, the junta has produced a constitution that enshrines 

its political stature, filled the bureaucracy with officers and technocrats, and undermined worthy political institutions.

 

It claims to be guiding the country back onto the democratic path, but its actions suggest quite the opposite. The laws it has introduced to steer Thailand’s political course tie the hands of the political parties.

 

Dissent is stifled. Critics are jailed for demeaning the monarchy when all they’ve done is condemn military rule.

 

Three years on, there is still no sign of another general election.

 

The junta seems to be perpetuating its tenure until Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha or someone else in the top brass is assured of retaining control after the poll.

 

This is why Bhichai’s proposal, however well intentioned, sounded so ludicrous. Why suggest that the military be allowed to maintain a political role when the military has already seized and sanctified that very role?

 

And the military will be able to cling to that role as long as professional politicians, members of civil society and the power elite fail to regard democracy as being essential to the country’s wellbeing and progress. What they and every 

 

citizen should be doing is demanding an election date, along with laws assuring the parties and civil society a central role in politics. They must demand an “exit strategy” to get the military out of politics, and bedrock measures to keep it out. 

 

Again and again in the 85 years since the 1932 revolution, military intervention in politics has been harmful to the economy and ruinous to democracy. Generals are not equipped to handle fiscal matters and have no interest in individual rights and freedom of choice. These lessons have been learned in other countries. It’s time we learned 

them here.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/opinion/30326631

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-09-14

[JAG]

Exit strategy?

Late night dash for the airport - convoy of Merc's topped and tailed by an escort of fancy new armoured cars...

 

 

[Somtamnication]

Mai mee!!!!!!!!! 

[Samui Bodoh]

Kudos to the Nation for this editorial; I didn't think they had it in them.

 

They are correct; the military has been a cancer on the body politic of Thailand for many, many years. And the best way to deal with a cancer is remove it completely and let the healthy tissue thrive. 

 

 

[wakeupplease]

35 minutes ago, webfact said:

Again and again in the 85 years since the 1932 revolution, military intervention in politics has been harmful to the economy and ruinous to democracy. Generals are not equipped to handle fiscal matters and have no interest in individual rights and freedom of choice. These lessons have been learned in other countries. It’s time we learned 

them here.

well said that man

[ChrisY1]

Thais never learn....the military should have been canned decades ago...but everyone here is too weak!

[nausea]

Yep, they're in that conundrum expressed by the classical phrase "holding a wolf by the ears" - holding on indefinitely isn't an option, but letting go is bl**dy risky.

[piersbeckett]

17 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Kudos to the Nation for this editorial; I didn't think they had it in them.

 

They are correct; the military has been a cancer on the body politic of Thailand for many, many years. And the best way to deal with a cancer is remove it completely and let the healthy tissue thrive. 

 

 

Kudos indeed.

 

This is a very opportunist type of cancer, may I suggest debulking; a procedure whereby a surgically incurable malignant neoplasm is partially removed without curative intent in order to make subsequent therapy with drugs, radiation and other adjunctive measures more effective and thereby improve the length of survival.

[PatOngo]

36 minutes ago, ChrisY1 said:

Thais never learn....the military should have been canned decades ago...but everyone here is too weak!

..........too many vested interests. It's a mighty trough.

[BuaBS]

Some countries are not meant to have democracy , Thailand is one of them.

[rkidlad]

And all of this is a huge symptom of 'corruption'. Everyone is looking to line their own pockets. 

 

You have to hold the people in power accountable. They're accountable to the people who voted them in and the people who didn't. The law applies to everyone equally. Actually, much more severe punishment for the people breaking the very laws they swore to uphold or not to break. Until this happens you're just going to keep having corrupt government after corrupt government.

 

It all starts with education. Teach children how detrimental corruption is to 'Thailand', the economy, their well being, their country's development, etc. How people who steal from the very people they are entrusted to be taking care of are the scum of the world. Attach a huge stigma to corrupt officials and practices of corruption. Put them in same category as rapists, murders and paeodophiles, etc.  

 

But no of this matters anyway. The big picture includes everyone. And the people who seek power are only in it for themselves. 

Edited September 14, 2017 by rkidlad

[mfd101]

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Kudos to the Nation for this editorial; I didn't think they had it in them.

 

They are correct; the military has been a cancer on the body politic of Thailand for many, many years. And the best way to deal with a cancer is remove it completely and let the healthy tissue thrive. 

 

 

Problem is there's not too much healthy tissue. A pretty anaemic patient by the time you've cut out corruption as well as authoritarianism ...

[robblok]

1 hour ago, rkidlad said:

And all of this is a huge symptom of 'corruption'. Everyone is looking to line their own pockets. 

 

You have to hold the people in power accountable. They're accountable to the people who voted them in and the people who didn't. The law applies to everyone equally. Actually, much more severe punishment for the people breaking the very laws they swore to uphold or not to break. Until this happens you're just going to keep having corrupt government after corrupt government.

 

It all starts with education. Teach children how detrimental corruption is to 'Thailand', the economy, their well being, their country's development, etc. How people who steal from the very people they are entrusted to be taking care of are the scum of the world. Attach a huge stigma to corrupt officials and practices of corruption. Put them in same category as rapists, murders and paeodophiles, etc.  

 

But no of this matters anyway. The big picture includes everyone. And the people who seek power are only in it for themselves. 

I agree they are all in it for themselves.. that is why just voting is not enough.. tough laws on corruption should be upheld for everyone especially so for goverment officials and politicians... I don't see it happening. This the basis of all the problems we have. They all want to be in power to enrich themselves, then when in power they act with impunity and only when they are removed by a coup OR voting and lose their protection will they be punished. But then the others in power do the same thing and the whole game starts again.

 

Its too bad that anti corruption agencies don't have the real power to do something about this. Look at the rice scam.. YL.. no corruption we did our investigation... done... now removed all the corruption came to light because no more protection.. no more people in places to slow things down change details. The politicians and army have far too much power the independent corruption agencies are not strong enough or incompetent. Only when corruption is tackled will you have goverment leaders that are not in it for themselves.

 

I have no solution, but feel that government change however it is affected (yes coups included) is the only way to punish some of the people who commit the crimes. Without goverment change those in power get ever more powerful get ever more people in positions where they can help them stall corruption investigations and so on. (same goes for the army the longer they are in power the more they put people in positions of power)

[LannaGuy]

tell them to contact Exit International that might help their 'exit strategy'  

[baboon]

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Kudos to the Nation for this editorial; I didn't think they had it in them.

 

They are correct; the military has been a cancer on the body politic of Thailand for many, many years. And the best way to deal with a cancer is remove it completely and let the healthy tissue thrive. 

 

 

I suspect that there are those who cheered on the coup in the expectation that the army would simply turf out the Shinawatras then hand the country over to the Democrat party. It will have come as a nasty shock when the army started leaning back in the chairs at Government House, putting their boots up on the table and firing up stogies. 

But it is too late now. They wanted the coup, they got the coup and all that went with it. Exit strategy? 'Nah, think we'll stick around. Go and fill the kettle, there's a good lad...'

[LannaGuy]

Just now, robblok said:

I agree they are all in it for themselves.. that is why just voting is not enough.. tough laws on corruption should be upheld for everyone especially so for goverment officials and politicians... I don't see it happening. This the basis of all the problems we have. They all want to be in power to enrich themselves, then when in power they act with impunity and only when they are removed by a coup OR voting and lose their protection will they be punished. But then the others in power do the same thing and the whole game starts again.

 

Its too bad that anti corruption agencies don't have the real power to do something about this. Look at the rice scam.. YL.. no corruption we did our investigation... done... now removed all the corruption came to light because no more protection.. no more people in places to slow things down change details. The politicians and army have far too much power the independent corruption agencies are not strong enough or incompetent. Only when corruption is tackled will you have goverment leaders that are not in it for themselves.

 

I have no solution, but feel that government change however it is affected (yes coups included) is the only way to punish some of the people who commit the crimes. Without goverment change those in power get ever more powerful get ever more people in positions where they can help them stall corruption investigations and so on. (same goes for the army the longer they are in power the more they put people in positions of power)

ah 'Yingluck rice scam' and you nearly,  NEARLY,  kept on-topic!   but no off you went about  "corruption", "rice scams" and all those reasons why the unelected Military Junta cannot "exit".  Not about their lust for power after 22 coups then?  nor the Billions they waste?

[trainman34014]

No exit strategy needed, just saunter back to barracks with all the new hardware plundered from the National Reserves and a Constitution self written that excludes anyone from prosecution...... until the next time, and have no doubt, there will be a next time !

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, LannaGuy said:

ah 'Yingluck rice scam' and you nearly,  NEARLY,  kept on-topic!   but no off you went about  "corruption", "rice scams" and all those reasons why the unelected Military Junta cannot "exit".  Not about their lust for power after 22 coups then?  nor the Billions they waste?

Just an example of how people in power are protected until they lose their power base. How they can go on with their corruption until they lose that power base. It was a response on a post that was made. I am sorry for casing your heroine in a bad light..I hope you can sleep tonight.

The post i made was valid criticized both sides, and all comes down to the fact that whoever is in power gets rich of it. Corruption and how hard it is to combat is what is holding Thailands democracy back. As for the junta its exit, cant be too soon IMHO. Then new people will be trying to get rich but they still don't have much of a power base at the start.. so it will be hard and they will have to be careful. 

[Happyman58]

When Hitler was in power and he was a lot smarter than the guy here He made the German army swear  Loyalty to him and the Nazi party That stopped many Generals not all from trying to get rid of him Maybe the next elected government needs to do this with the army here Might stop them from staging coups By the way there is no exit strategy from this P.M. he is not going anywhere

 

Business has def died since this mob have been in power Ask my wife and she is Thai and she will tell you exactly the same thing She owns a business

[LannaGuy]

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

Just an example of how people in power are protected until they lose their power base. How they can go on with their corruption until they lose that power base. It was a response on a post that was made. I am sorry for casing your heroine in a bad light..I hope you can sleep tonight.

The post i made was valid criticized both sides, and all comes down to the fact that whoever is in power gets rich of it. Corruption and how hard it is to combat is what is holding Thailands democracy back. As for the junta its exit, cant be too soon IMHO. Then new people will be trying to get rich but they still don't have much of a power base at the start.. so it will be hard and they will have to be careful. 

 

No mention of the 600 million?  to me that was worse as it was 'private' money not a genuine miscalculation by elected officials. 

[robblok]

Just now, LannaGuy said:

 

No mention of the 600 million?  to me that was worse as it was 'private' money not a genuine miscalculation by elected officials. 

Fake G2G deals genuine miscalculation .. your funny blinded.. but funny. They were intentionally stealing.. you dont get 42 years for a miscalculation. 

 

What 600 million are you talking about.. any money stolen by corruption is bad.

[JAG]

When Hitler was in power and he was a lot smarter than the guy here He made the German army swear  Loyalty to him and the Nazi party That stopped many Generals not all from trying to get rid of him Maybe the next elected government needs to do this with the army here Might stop them from staging coups By the way there is no exit strategy from this P.M. he is not going anywhere
 
Business has def died since this mob have been in power Ask my wife and she is Thai and she will tell you exactly the same thing She owns a business

The coup ( in fact both the latest coups) took place whilst an election was in progress, after it had been called and before voting ended. Both elections had been called with the agreement of and promulgated by the highest constitutional entity in the land, an entity to which the military swear allegiance.
I see a fatal flaw in your proposal...

[Samui Bodoh]

20 minutes ago, robblok said:

I agree they are all in it for themselves.. that is why just voting is not enough.. tough laws on corruption should be upheld for everyone especially so for goverment officials and politicians... I don't see it happening. This the basis of all the problems we have. They all want to be in power to enrich themselves, then when in power they act with impunity and only when they are removed by a coup OR voting and lose their protection will they be punished. But then the others in power do the same thing and the whole game starts again.

 

Its too bad that anti corruption agencies don't have the real power to do something about this. Look at the rice scam.. YL.. no corruption we did our investigation... done... now removed all the corruption came to light because no more protection.. no more people in places to slow things down change details. The politicians and army have far too much power the independent corruption agencies are not strong enough or incompetent. Only when corruption is tackled will you have goverment leaders that are not in it for themselves.

 

I have no solution, but feel that government change however it is affected (yes coups included) is the only way to punish some of the people who commit the crimes. Without goverment change those in power get ever more powerful get ever more people in positions where they can help them stall corruption investigations and so on. (same goes for the army the longer they are in power the more they put people in positions of power)

 

Good post Robblok, but I have to agree with Lannaguy that you ALMOST had it.

 

"They all want to be in power to enrich themselves, then when in power they act with impunity and only when they are removed by a coup OR voting and lose their protection will they be punished."

 

The problem I (and others) see is that only one party is removed by coup, and NO party is removed by vote. Until that changes, not much else will.

 

"Its too bad that anti corruption agencies don't have the real power to do something about this."

 

The anti-corruption agencies DO have the power to do something about this. That is not the problem. The problem is that the anti-corruption agencies approach their investigations unevenly; some get moved to the head of the line (rice-pledging scheme) while others seem to languish for years on end. Anti-corruption agencies can only be effective when they are 'politically neutral', and that isn't the case in Thailand.

 

"I have no solution, but feel that government change however it is affected (yes coups included) is the only way to punish some of the people who commit the crimes."

 

The solution to this IS difficult in a culture that doesn't seem to mind corruption too much. However, the long-term answer is to move the society to one based on law where it applies to all. Yes, a long journey... But, as long as coups occur, that cannot happen. When governments change because of a coup, the whole process stops and things are re-set to zero.

 

As I said above, good post (I mean that sincerely), but...almost!

 

Cheers

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

Good post Robblok, but I have to agree with Lannaguy that you ALMOST had it.

 

"They all want to be in power to enrich themselves, then when in power they act with impunity and only when they are removed by a coup OR voting and lose their protection will they be punished."

 

The problem I (and others) see is that only one party is removed by coup, and NO party is removed by vote. Until that changes, not much else will.

 

"Its too bad that anti corruption agencies don't have the real power to do something about this."

 

The anti-corruption agencies DO have the power to do something about this. That is not the problem. The problem is that the anti-corruption agencies approach their investigations unevenly; some get moved to the head of the line (rice-pledging scheme) while others seem to languish for years on end. Anti-corruption agencies can only be effective when they are 'politically neutral', and that isn't the case in Thailand.

 

"I have no solution, but feel that government change however it is affected (yes coups included) is the only way to punish some of the people who commit the crimes."

 

The solution to this IS difficult in a culture that doesn't seem to mind corruption too much. However, the long-term answer is to move the society to one based on law where it applies to all. Yes, a long journey... But, as long as coups occur, that cannot happen. When governments change because of a coup, the whole process stops and things are re-set to zero.

 

As I said above, good post (I mean that sincerely), but...almost!

 

Cheers

You and I differ on this that you don't see a coup as a way to remove corrupt politicians. The anti corruption agencies had nothing on YL she stalled them cut their budget in half and arrogantly said she had investigated and there was no corruption. We now now better (we already knew back then about fake G2G deals but could not prove it as YL was in power and could protect herself)

 

Your right about that anti corruption agencies are selective in their cases.. but if they could have they would have brought her ministers down for the fake G2G deals... but they could not because of the protection. That is the problem, that is for me the ONLY reason why i see coups as justified as those in power are just too powerful for a good investigation as long as they are in power. 

 

YL and her minions would have stayed in power and could have gone on with corruption as long as they wanted as they were protected and as long as they would have given the farmers their cut they were untouchable. If this were not the case.. id wholeheartedly agree with you. 

 

I rather see a different Thailand where the anti corruption agencies are indeed as powerful that no changes of government are needed. 

 

Anyway we are drifting away and I will be accused of derailing the topic. 

 

I will say it again I want the military gone just as much as most, they had their chance.. did some good things... did some bad things but overall did not do as promised.

[Samui Bodoh]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

You and I differ on this that you don't see a coup as a way to remove corrupt politicians. The anti corruption agencies had nothing on YL she stalled them cut their budget in half and arrogantly said she had investigated and there was no corruption. We now now better (we already knew back then about fake G2G deals but could not prove it as YL was in power and could protect herself)

 

Your right about that anti corruption agencies are selective in their cases.. but if they could have they would have brought her ministers down for the fake G2G deals... but they could not because of the protection. That is the problem, that is for me the ONLY reason why i see coups as justified as those in power are just too powerful for a good investigation as long as they are in power. 

 

YL and her minions would have stayed in power and could have gone on with corruption as long as they wanted as they were protected and as long as they would have given the farmers their cut they were untouchable. If this were not the case.. id wholeheartedly agree with you. 

 

I rather see a different Thailand where the anti corruption agencies are indeed as powerful that no changes of government are needed. 

 

Anyway we are drifting away and I will be accused of derailing the topic. 

 

I will say it again I want the military gone just as much as most, they had their chance.. did some good things... did some bad things but overall did not do as promised.

 

Almost...

 

 

[LannaGuy]

30 minutes ago, robblok said:

Fake G2G deals genuine miscalculation .. your funny blinded.. but funny. They were intentionally stealing.. you dont get 42 years for a miscalculation. 

 

What 600 million are you talking about.. any money stolen by corruption is bad.

Now I have to defer to you, dear robblock, you don't get 42 years for a miscalculation that is TRUE but you do get it for being in the wrong government and on the wrong side. As for the 600 million Goggle is your friend.  

[robblok]

1 minute ago, LannaGuy said:

Now I have to defer to you, dear robblock, you don't get 42 years for a miscalculation that is TRUE but you do get it for being in the wrong government and on the wrong side. As for the 600 million Goggle is your friend.  

No you get it for corruption. you still fail to acknowledge this most on your side already admit this that this was corruption and there was good ground for this punishment. I spelled out how this worked countless times not going to do it again your too blind. to one sided.

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

Almost...

 

 

Just a difference of opinion mate... i see things my way you see things your way, they are almost the same but not quite.

[smutcakes]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

You and I differ on this that you don't see a coup as a way to remove corrupt politicians. The anti corruption agencies had nothing on YL she stalled them cut their budget in half and arrogantly said she had investigated and there was no corruption. We now now better (we already knew back then about fake G2G deals but could not prove it as YL was in power and could protect herself)

 

Your right about that anti corruption agencies are selective in their cases.. but if they could have they would have brought her ministers down for the fake G2G deals... but they could not because of the protection. That is the problem, that is for me the ONLY reason why i see coups as justified as those in power are just too powerful for a good investigation as long as they are in power. 

 

YL and her minions would have stayed in power and could have gone on with corruption as long as they wanted as they were protected and as long as they would have given the farmers their cut they were untouchable. If this were not the case.. id wholeheartedly agree with you. 

 

I rather see a different Thailand where the anti corruption agencies are indeed as powerful that no changes of government are needed. 

 

Anyway we are drifting away and I will be accused of derailing the topic. 

 

I will say it again I want the military gone just as much as most, they had their chance.. did some good things... did some bad things but overall did not do as promised.

The problem with your theory on changing Governments investigating outgoing Governments comes to a crashing halt because:

 

1) No Government can investigate military Governments

2) Even if one was brave/stupid enough to try the 'independent agencies' 'graft busters' have all been filled with their friends and supporters

3) They have given themselves past, present and future amnesties

4) Democrats/Bhumjumthai would never investigate the army

 

So in affect only one party to the Thai political mess is ever going to be investigated. Once they are forced out there is literally going to be nothing to stop graft, corruption.

 

[robblok]

Just now, smutcakes said:

The problem with your theory on changing Governments investigating outgoing Governments comes to a crashing halt because:

 

1) No Government can investigate military Governments

2) Even if one was brave/stupid enough to try the 'independent agencies' 'graft busters' have all been filled with their friends and supporters

3) They have given themselves past, present and future amnesties

4) Democrats/Bhumjumthai would never investigate the army

 

So in affect only one party to the Thai political mess is ever going to be investigated. Once they are forced out there is literally going to be nothing to stop graft, corruption.

 

your right its not going to stop corruption but punishes at least some of those people and yes the military is almost untouchable.. Before they never stayed this long in power. Its not good.. but at least some corruption has been stopped.  I rather see some stopped then none at all.

 

You never came back to my email where i posted proof of my statements.. don't you like facts ?