UDD to seek reopening of 2010 crackdown probe

[webfact]

UDD to seek reopening of 2010 crackdown probe

By THE NATION

 

The red-shirt United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship yesterday issues a statement announcing further steps to seek justice for victims of the 2010 crackdown, including families of the more than 90 people killed.

 

Red shirts want cleared Abhisit and Suthep to be charged with malfeasance
 

BANGKOK: -- THE UNITED Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) will lodge a petition with the Office of the Attorney-General next week, asking the agency to instruct the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) to revive its investigation into the 2010 crackdown on red-shirt protesters.

 

The Supreme Court two weeks ago dismissed murder charges filed by the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) against former prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and his deputy Suthep Thaugsuban. 

 

The dismissal cited a legal technicality that the cases had to be brought to the court’s Criminal Division for Political Office Holders by the NACC.

 

The NACC had dismissed the case in 2015, saying there were illegal armed forces in some areas, suggesting that the killings were murder cases that should be dealt with by a criminal court.

 

Nattawut Saikua, UDD co-leader, said the verdict suggested that the case could still be brought to the Supreme Court’s Criminal Division for Political Office Holders. 

 

 

The Office of the Attorney-General and the NACC would be obliged to follow the verdict, by bringing the case to the right court, he said.

 

If the NACC required new evidence, the agency had to consider the fact that the Supreme Court had said the killings were the result of a military operation to disperse demonstrators following the instructions of Abhisit and Suthep, as well as the case files of the autopsy, Nattawut said.

 

He said the agency should charge Abhisit and Suthep immediately for malfeasance, following the court’s remarks.

 

If the NACC agreed to charge the two men, the red-shirts also called for the Office of the Attorney-General to add it to the murder charges already filed and bring them to the political office holders’ court.

 

The UDD representatives also threatened to take action against the NACC and the Office of the Attorney-General if they failed to react to the verdict. 

 

They said they would gather one million signatures to call for authorities to investigate the two agencies. 

If that did not work, the red-shirts said their lawyers would gather evidence and sue operational officers involved in the crackdown, following the NACC’s previous ruling that these people could be guilty if their actions were found to be disproportionate. 

 

The UDD also said they would collect evidence and show it to the press, both from Thailand and abroad, to expose the difference between the judgements of the NACC in the cases related to the dispersal of red-shirt and yellow-shirt demonstrators. 

 

They would also hold an academic forum on the rule of law to help create a reconciliation atmosphere in line with the remarks of the King regarding |justice.

 

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/politics/30326704

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-09-15

[craigt3365]

Sad these guys got nothing else but digging up this stuff from the past.  How about looking forward?  Reach out to the other side, try reconciliation for the betterment of the people.  Right...a dream...I know.  Politics at it's worst.

[dorayme]

Someone should bring charges against the UDD for creating the problem in the first place.

 

Had it not been for them there would have been no killings on either side.

 

They laid siege from Rachapraisong to Silom for months with armed "guards" and resisted all peaceful attempts to disband them.

 

All of the leaders should be in jail for their activities.

 

The government had told everyone to go home. 

[yellowboat]

47 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Sad these guys got nothing else but digging up this stuff from the past.  How about looking forward?  Reach out to the other side, try reconciliation for the betterment of the people.  Right...a dream...I know.  Politics at it's worst.

They have every right to be upset, but if they were take the high road as you pointed out, would agree they would garner far more political capital in the long run.  Considering the junta's future vision of Thailand is rather unnatural or non Thai. 

 

If they could amass one million ligament signatures, that would put the current regime on notice. 

[Samui Bodoh]

41 minutes ago, dorayme said:

Someone should bring charges against the UDD for creating the problem in the first place.

 

Had it not been for them there would have been no killings on either side.

 

They laid siege from Rachapraisong to Silom for months with armed "guards" and resisted all peaceful attempts to disband them.

 

All of the leaders should be in jail for their activities.

 

The government had told everyone to go home. 

 

Someone should bring charges against the UDD PDRC for creating the problem in the first place.

 

Had it not been for them there would have been no killings on either side.

 

They laid siege from Rachapraisong to Silom for months with armed "guards" and resisted all peaceful attempts to disband them.

 

All of the leaders should be in jail for their activities.

 

The government had told everyone to go home. 

 

If you compare my post with your post, I suspect that you will see the problem.

Until the events of 2010 and 2013 are treated equally seriously, nothing much will change.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Samui Bodoh

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

Someone should bring charges against the UDD PDRC for creating the problem in the first place.

 

Had it not been for them there would have been no killings on either side.

 

They laid siege from Rachapraisong to Silom for months with armed "guards" and resisted all peaceful attempts to disband them.

 

All of the leaders should be in jail for their activities.

 

The government had told everyone to go home. 

 

If you compare my post with your post, I suspect that you will see the problem.

Until the events of 2010 and 2013 are treated equally, nothing much will change.

I normally like your post... but the difference was.. the men in black that were shooting at the army. You can find it in many reports.. without those terrorists who were among the protesters it would never have come that far.

 

Did the army make mistakes.. sure.. but were they alone responsible.. no the guy who put the men in black there is just as guilty if not more. Also the reds are guilty for letting these people in their ranks. Had this been peaceful protesters things would have been completely different. 

 

I can't recall the PDRC attacking targets with grenade launchers.. to call the protests the same is crazy.. they have parallels but the red clearly had far more violent elements there and far more weapons.. just look at the men in black. 

[craigt3365]

19 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

Someone should bring charges against the UDD PDRC for creating the problem in the first place.

 

Had it not been for them there would have been no killings on either side.

 

They laid siege from Rachapraisong to Silom for months with armed "guards" and resisted all peaceful attempts to disband them.

 

All of the leaders should be in jail for their activities.

 

The government had told everyone to go home. 

 

If you compare my post with your post, I suspect that you will see the problem.

Until the events of 2010 and 2013 are treated equally seriously, nothing much will change.

 

 

Ummm...who was it that asked for the protesters to come to Bangkok in the first place?  And paid them?  It wasn't the PDRC.  At least this time.

 

Place the blame properly.  And this topic isn't about the PDRC.  That's being discussed in another thread.

[Samui Bodoh]

19 minutes ago, robblok said:

I normally like your post... but the difference was.. the men in black that were shooting at the army. You can find it in many reports.. without those terrorists who were among the protesters it would never have come that far.

 

Did the army make mistakes.. sure.. but were they alone responsible.. no the guy who put the men in black there is just as guilty if not more. Also the reds are guilty for letting these people in their ranks. Had this been peaceful protesters things would have been completely different. 

 

I can't recall the PDRC attacking targets with grenade launchers.. to call the protests the same is crazy.. they have parallels but the red clearly had far more violent elements there and far more weapons.. just look at the men in black. 

 

You are correct that the two situations aren't identical. I am not really interested in looking back at the details, but perhaps someone else might come along and do so.

 

However, it is hard to argue that the two situations were REALLY different in the 'big picture' view. But, the reaction to the two events WAS rather different. That is the problem. 

 

Both groups "shut down" Bangkok. In one case, the army came in and many people died (not assigning blame). In the other, they didn't.

 

Politics is perception. The perception in large parts of Thailand is that one side suffered lots of casualties, while the other got off with a slap on the wrist.

 

If Thailand is ever going to move forward, this perception needs to be dealt with. And it needs to be dealt with in a way that satisfies both sides.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Samui Bodoh

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

You are correct that the two situations aren't identical. I am not really interested in looking back at the details, but perhaps someone else might come along and do so.

 

However, it is hard to argue that the two situations were REALLY different in the 'big picture' view. But, the reaction to the two events WAS rather different. That is the problem. 

 

Both groups "shut down" Bangkok. In one case, the army came in and many people died (not assigning blame). In the other, they didn't.

 

Politics is perception. The perception in large parts of Thailand is that one side suffered lots of casualties, while the other got off with a slap on the wrist.

 

If Thailand is ever going to move forward, this perception needs to be dealt with. And it needs to be dealt with in a way that satisfies both sides.

 

 

Of course you don't want to look back in the details.. it does not suit your side as the details are not details but a part of the big picture.. one side is definitely more violent as the other and therefor suffered more casualties. Did the PRDC call up people to come and burn a city down.. or to drive over people.. 

 

One protest was far more violent then the other.. so the response to that protest was different... more harsh. 

 

Maybe next time they will not follow those violent leaders and maybe next time they wont allow people with war weapons mingle among them. Maybe they will understand next time doing so brings risks with them.

 

But yes I think the army made mistakes as a result of being shot on by the men in black.. we all know who pays for the red shirts.. not a big leap who would have paid for the men in black. Can't prove it of course but its logical. The reds should look for blame on their side too.. for allowing those men in black to be there. 

[Samui Bodoh]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

Of course you don't want to look back in the details.. it does not suit your side as the details are not details but a part of the big picture.. one side is definitely more violent as the other and therefor suffered more casualties. Did the PRDC call up people to come and burn a city down.. or to drive over people.. 

 

One protest was far more violent then the other.. so the response to that protest was different... more harsh. 

 

Maybe next time they will not follow those violent leaders and maybe next time they wont allow people with war weapons mingle among them. Maybe they will understand next time doing so brings risks with them.

 

But yes I think the army made mistakes as a result of being shot on by the men in black.. we all know who pays for the red shirts.. not a big leap who would have paid for the men in black. Can't prove it of course but its logical. The reds should look for blame on their side too.. for allowing those men in black to be there. 

 

I have some sympathy for the points that you make; it was a really difficult situation in 2010. Should the army have been sent in? Probably, but I wish that they had handled it better...

 

Should the army have stepped in for 2013? Probably, but they didn't...

 

You could say that I am oversimplifying it (and perhaps you are right), but the perception remains that the two events were very similar but handled very differently. And until that aspect is resolved (somehow?!), one side (the Reds) are simply going to see a double standard and unfairness. And as long as that happens, the dispute(s) will continue.

 

I wish I knew an answer. The logical part of me says that some sort of 'truth commission' would be a good idea, but I think it is too soon for that to work. Not to mention, the 'face' issue.

 

I would LOVE to see Thailand move past all this, but I don't think it will happen for a while.

 

Enjoy your Friday!

Cheers

 

[yellowboat]

11 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I wish I knew an answer. The logical part of me says that some sort of 'truth commission' would be a good idea, but I think it is too soon for that to work. Not to mention, the 'face' issue.

 

I would LOVE to see Thailand move past all this, but I don't think it will happen for a while.

People in the highest perches of Thai society have little interest in truth, sadly, and that is what is holding the country back.  Thailand will not have excitement it once had anytime soon.  Animosity will remain in the absence of truth and fairness.   

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Sad these guys got nothing else but digging up this stuff from the past.  How about looking forward?  Reach out to the other side, try reconciliation for the betterment of the people.  Right...a dream...I know.  Politics at it's worst.

 

Look at their photo Craig. They look like politicians who'd been promised long and "rewarding" stints at the trough. And now, woosh! all gone.

 

I don't see them campaigning to have the case against Thaksin re-opened where a nice judge said despite the video evidence of his incitement he couldn't be prosecuted because he was physically outside Thailand when he spoke! Almost as creative as Tarit's unique new definition of perjury laws where witnesses can commit perjury, no problem, only the defendant can't, which he used to not prosecute Yingluck.

 

But sadly, these guys are simply paid mouthpieces and stooges. Appointed to their positions and paid lackeys. No more, no less. So they are unlikely to be interested in looking forward, reconciliation and certainly won't give a fig for the betterment of others.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

I have some sympathy for the points that you make; it was a really difficult situation in 2010. Should the army have been sent in? Probably, but I wish that they had handled it better...

 

Should the army have stepped in for 2013? Probably, but they didn't...

 

You could say that I am oversimplifying it (and perhaps you are right), but the perception remains that the two events were very similar but handled very differently. And until that aspect is resolved (somehow?!), one side (the Reds) are simply going to see a double standard and unfairness. And as long as that happens, the dispute(s) will continue.

 

I wish I knew an answer. The logical part of me says that some sort of 'truth commission' would be a good idea, but I think it is too soon for that to work. Not to mention, the 'face' issue.

 

I would LOVE to see Thailand move past all this, but I don't think it will happen for a while.

 

Enjoy your Friday!

Cheers

 

 

The problems of 2010 and 2013 should have been dealt with by the police, not the military. But the police are either too inept, don't want to do it for whatever reason, or stayed out by design. Whatever the reason, they were conspicuous by their absence.

[Eric Loh]

50 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The problems of 2010 and 2013 should have been dealt with by the police, not the military. But the police are either too inept, don't want to do it for whatever reason, or stayed out by design. Whatever the reason, they were conspicuous by their absence.

Perhaps the glaring difference which may escape your thoughts was that in 2010, Suthep authorized the use of live rounds and military intervention. 2013, Yingluck seek military help and they set up roadblocks and decorated them with flowers. Then the military stage a coup. 

[craigt3365]

8 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Perhaps the glaring difference which may escape your thoughts was that in 2010, Suthep authorized the use of live rounds and military intervention. 2013, Yingluck seek military help and they set up roadblocks and decorated them with flowers. Then the military stage a coup. 

In 2010, live rounds were being fired by the protesters.  In 2013, grenades were being lobbed into the protesters with the police doing nothing.

[halloween]

We seem to be missing a few of the usual suspects. Where could they be now?

 

Perhaps it's time somebody had another look at the bail conditions set for the rest of these mercenary propagandists. Revoking it could even cause a call for a speed up of their long overdue trial.

[Eric Loh]

24 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

In 2010, live rounds were being fired by the protesters.  In 2013, grenades were being lobbed into the protesters with the police doing nothing.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/08/05/thailand-end-2010-violence-cover

 

You finding excuse for the military to use disproportionate use of high velocity ammunition and snipers against citizens?  

[stephen tracy]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Look at their photo Craig. They look like politicians who'd been promised long and "rewarding" stints at the trough. And now, woosh! all gone.

 

I don't see them campaigning to have the case against Thaksin re-opened where a nice judge said despite the video evidence of his incitement he couldn't be prosecuted because he was physically outside Thailand when he spoke! Almost as creative as Tarit's unique new definition of perjury laws where witnesses can commit perjury, no problem, only the defendant can't, which he used to not prosecute Yingluck.

 

But sadly, these guys are simply paid mouthpieces and stooges. Appointed to their positions and paid lackeys. No more, no less. So they are unlikely to be interested in looking forward, reconciliation and certainly won't give a fig for the betterment of others.

"But sadly, these guys are simply paid mouthpieces and stooges. Appointed to their positions and paid lackeys. No more, no less. So they are unlikely to be interested in looking forward, reconciliation and certainly won't give a fig for the betterment of others." I'd say this true but the exact same comment could be made to talk about the junta.  I suppose we could say this whole thing is a conflict between Thailand's divided elites that have no problem turning the streets of Bangkok into their own personal battlefield.   Supporters of either side of this divide are just useful idiots... dupes.

[craigt3365]

9 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/08/05/thailand-end-2010-violence-cover

 

You finding excuse for the military to use disproportionate use of high velocity ammunition and snipers against citizens?  

Not at all.  Just saying the red shirts were far from innocent in all this.  You come to Bangkok prepared for war, you've got to accept the consequences.  Didn't one ask protesters to bring empty bottles so they could fill them with gas and burn Bangkok?  Hmm....

[seajae]

again we see the red apologists spinning their propaganda, thaksin is the one that should be brought before the court for instigating all this, he is the sole reason 2010 happened, he paid the reds to do what they did and called for the violence, the army was only brought in after the reds started the violence and the police refused to do anything about it, the fact one of thaksins lackies was running the police didnt help. If the army had not been called in when it was things would have been much worse for Bangkok, more buildings burnt and looted, more people shot by the red/black shirts, they are a terrorist group pure and simple. While the yellows arent much better they do not tend to kill innocent people like the reds, the reds use violence as a weapon of choice then start crying when they get violence in return, all the red leaders should be in jail along with the yellow leaders and thaksin. Calling in the army was the only choice left to the govt at that stage and shooting back to defend themselves(all be it not accurately) was understandable in the circumstances, people are using it for ulterior motives and ignoring the real truth as to why it all happened

[Eric Loh]

21 minutes ago, seajae said:

again we see the red apologists spinning their propaganda, thaksin is the one that should be brought before the court for instigating all this, he is the sole reason 2010 happened, he paid the reds to do what they did and called for the violence, the army was only brought in after the reds started the violence and the police refused to do anything about it, the fact one of thaksins lackies was running the police didnt help. If the army had not been called in when it was things would have been much worse for Bangkok, more buildings burnt and looted, more people shot by the red/black shirts, they are a terrorist group pure and simple. While the yellows arent much better they do not tend to kill innocent people like the reds, the reds use violence as a weapon of choice then start crying when they get violence in return, all the red leaders should be in jail along with the yellow leaders and thaksin. Calling in the army was the only choice left to the govt at that stage and shooting back to defend themselves(all be it not accurately) was understandable in the circumstances, people are using it for ulterior motives and ignoring the real truth as to why it all happened

Then why the world condemn the military for their atrocities. Your excuses are pathetic. No military should turn their guns on their own civilians and inflict fatalities. The world community always condemned military disproportionate use of force against their own people but you finding excuse. 

[Samui Bodoh]

16 minutes ago, seajae said:

again we see the red apologists spinning their propaganda, thaksin is the one that should be brought before the court for instigating all this, he is the sole reason 2010 happened, he paid the reds to do what they did and called for the violence, the army was only brought in after the reds started the violence and the police refused to do anything about it, the fact one of thaksins lackies was running the police didnt help. If the army had not been called in when it was things would have been much worse for Bangkok, more buildings burnt and looted, more people shot by the red/black shirts, they are a terrorist group pure and simple. While the yellows arent much better they do not tend to kill innocent people like the reds, the reds use violence as a weapon of choice then start crying when they get violence in return, all the red leaders should be in jail along with the yellow leaders and thaksin. Calling in the army was the only choice left to the govt at that stage and shooting back to defend themselves(all be it not accurately) was understandable in the circumstances, people are using it for ulterior motives and ignoring the real truth as to why it all happened

 

Such certainty in a land of ambiguity!

 

Sometimes I wonder if we all reside in the same place. The Thailand that I know is still, after all these years, shrouded and unclear to an extent. Do we foreigners really understand the minutia of things here? Especially political matters? I doubt it. 

 

I guess the debate will continue...

 

Congrats to Seajae! Inside a rant regarding the 'Reds', he managed to shoot at the 'Yellows', twice! That gives me hope...

 

Cheers

 

 

[rixalex]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

No military should turn their guns on their own civilians and inflict fatalities.

Yes well, no military should have to step in to do a job that is the police's responsibility, but this isn't a perfect world is it.

 

[stephen tracy]

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Then why the world condemn the military for their atrocities. Your excuses are pathetic. No military should turn their guns on their own civilians and inflict fatalities. The world community always condemned military disproportionate use of force against their own people but you finding excuse. 

Ah, but they should if the poor and socio-economically marginalized start demanding a greater piece of the pie.  This must never be allowed... enter Prayut stage left.

[seajae]

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Then why the world condemn the military for their atrocities. Your excuses are pathetic. No military should turn their guns on their own civilians and inflict fatalities. The world community always condemned military disproportionate use of force against their own people but you finding excuse. 

so you think that they simply should have let the reds shoot them instead and just stand there to act as a target, grow a brain, if you are being shot at you shoot back,  they would not have even been there returning fire if the reds hadnt acted like terrorists under thaksins orders but then that would require you to admit the truth that the reds were guilty as well

[seajae]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

Such certainty in a land of ambiguity!

 

Sometimes I wonder if we all reside in the same place. The Thailand that I know is still, after all these years, shrouded and unclear to an extent. Do we foreigners really understand the minutia of things here? Especially political matters? I doubt it. 

 

I guess the debate will continue...

 

Congrats to Seajae! Inside a rant regarding the 'Reds', he managed to shoot at the 'Yellows', twice! That gives me hope...

 

Cheers

 

 

inside a rant regarding the truth, reds and yellows are both bad news but the reds are much more violent and too ready to kill innocents to make their point. Thailand is a nice place to live but would be a hell of a lot better if the reds, yellows and thaksins family/ptp were not around to continually stir up all the crap & animosity amongst the people

[Eric Loh]

2 minutes ago, seajae said:

so you think that they simply should have let the reds shoot them instead and just stand there to act as a target, grow a brain, if you are being shot at you shoot back,  they would not have even been there returning fire if the reds hadnt acted like terrorists under thaksins orders but then that would require you to admit the truth that the reds were guilty as well

So who exactly shoot at the military. Reds, black or some renegade mercenary soldiers that were targeting some key senior officers. Ever wonder why those rising star officers that belong to certain camp were targeted? You need a bigger brain than just information from posters here.  

[Eric Loh]

2 hours ago, rixalex said:

Yes well, no military should have to step in to do a job that is the police's responsibility, but this isn't a perfect world is it.

 

Why were the police more active doing their job against the PAD and PDRC than in 2010 during Ahbisit tenure. They did their job defending Parliament House and Thai-Japanese Stadium that got a police officer killed and became neutral during the 2010 crisis. The answer can't be spoken openly.

[stephen tracy]

1 hour ago, seajae said:

inside a rant regarding the truth, reds and yellows are both bad news but the reds are much more violent and too ready to kill innocents to make their point. Thailand is a nice place to live but would be a hell of a lot better if the reds, yellows and thaksins family/ptp were not around to continually stir up all the crap & animosity amongst the people

You're right sejae, they really are as bad as each other.  It's refreshing to see that here on TV where someone actually acknowledges that fact rather than slinging mud at who the perceive as this or that. The whole system in Thailand is rotten to the core and all else that stems from that are symptoms.  The Shins were horribly corrupt, the military is the same.  It will require decades of a revamp of the education system to even get close to remedying this seemingly endless loop of government followed by coup.  A country that is literally politically atrophying. 

[halloween]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

So who exactly shoot at the military. Reds, black or some renegade mercenary soldiers that were targeting some key senior officers. Ever wonder why those rising star officers that belong to certain camp were targeted? You need a bigger brain than just information from posters here.  

Or it could have been feral boy scouts, or a gang of lady boys with non-PMT. The question to ask, before swallowing any of Eric's BS, is just how did they manage to wander, guns, balaclavas and all, through the red camp like they owned the place, with nobody even looking their way.