How to make a Grand Filano go faster and more reactive.

[VocalNeal]

3 hours ago, M1Tanker said:

Remove both mirrors.  The scooter manufacturers, for the Thai market, have installed mirrors for the purpose of personal grooming.  For those interested in improved performance, they are removed.  This lowers the mass of the scooter as well as decreasing the surface area, thereby improving the drag coefficient. Another benefit of removing the mirrors is that it improves the rider’s concentration.  The rider is no longer distracted by objects appearing in his mirrors.

 

When I had a hobby/modified Wave in Indonesia I bought some "carbon fibre" mirrors. Locals asked me why, as mirrors were only for women. 

 

 

 

 

[VocalNeal]

3 hours ago, M1Tanker said:

Remove both mirrors.  The scooter manufacturers, for the Thai market, have installed mirrors for the purpose of personal grooming.  For those interested in improved performance, they are removed.  This lowers the mass of the scooter as well as decreasing the surface area, thereby improving the drag coefficient. Another benefit of removing the mirrors is that it improves the rider’s concentration.  The rider is no longer distracted by objects appearing in his mirrors.

 

When I had a hobby/modified Wave in Indonesia I bought some "carbon fibre" mirrors. Locals asked me why, as mirrors were only for women. 

 

 

 

 

[AllanB]

15 hours ago, M1Tanker said:

VocalNeal, Thanks and noted.

 

I believe that the use of stripes, decals, and stickers has already been discussed.  Changing the weights in the scooter variator has also been discussed.

 

The following are some of my observations, while here in Thailand, that can also affect acceleration and speed.  In Thailand acceleration and speed can be affected by making changes to the following:

• The Scooter
• Riding technique
• Riding tactics

 

1. The scooter.

 

Most performance enhancements are realized when reducing mass as well as the drag coefficient (Cd).  Acceleration (a) is a function of force (F) divided by mass (m). One form of this formula is a = F/m.  By decreasing mass (m), acceleration (a) will increase. The drag coefficient (Cd) is typically lowered by decreasing surface area. By decreasing the drag coefficient improved acceleration and speed can be realized.

 

Here is a list of typical modifications.

• Remove both mirrors.  The scooter manufacturers, for the Thai market, have installed mirrors for the purpose of personal grooming.  For those interested in improved performance, they are removed.  This lowers the mass of the scooter as well as decreasing the surface area, thereby improving the drag coefficient. Another benefit of removing the mirrors is that it improves the rider’s concentration.  The rider is no longer distracted by objects appearing in his mirrors.
• Replace the original equipment manufacturer (OEM) wheels and tires.  This modification is achieved by replacing the OEM wheel/tire combination with very narrow aftermarket wheels and tires.  Typically this lowers mass because the aftermarket wheels are lighter and the tires are a thin walled high performance bias ply. This narrow combination also decreases the surface area, lowering the drag coefficient.  Another benefit of the narrow wheel/tire combination is lowered rolling resistance.
• Disconnect the lights.  Apparently, scooter electrics in Thailand operate differently than in other regions of the world.  The headlight, taillight, and turn indicator lights rob the engine of power. If one is uncomfortable working on vehicle electronics that is understandable. Just wait for a bulb failure to realize a performance increase. Do not replace the failed bulb in order to maintain the improved performance.
• Get a louder exhaust system.  Apparently through years of automotive engineering research and testing, Thai engineers have discovered that testing is unnecessary.  It has been determined that improved engine performance is proportional to the increased decibel level of an aftermarket exhaust system.  There is no longer a need to test the vehicle on a rolling road dynamometer.  The louder the exhaust system, the greater the improvement in acceleration and speed. There will be no impact on fuel economy.

 

2. Riding technique.

 

Here are some proven Thai riding techniques as well as some changes to rider gear that may result in improved scooter performance.

• Keep your elbows locked to your sides and your arms/hands in a praying mantis position on the handle bars.  This is one of the simplest ways of decreasing the coefficient of drag.
• Keep your head down, fixed to the front, and your chin on your chest.  This also lowers the coefficient of drag.  It also aids the rider in not becoming distracted with any object in his peripheral vision.
• Do not wear any protective gear.  Getting rid of the helmet, armored jacket  and pants, gloves, proper footwear drastically lowers the mass.

 

3. Riding tactics.

 

These Thai riding tactics show greater benefits to speed rather than to acceleration.

• Do not slow or lift on the throttle when coming to intersections or changing lights. The traffic here in Thailand is severe and this tactic will enable the rider to more quickly arrive at his destination.
• Ride in between vehicles or vehicles and the curb without lifting off of the throttle.  Apparently it has been determined that the flow of air in between vehicles or between a vehicle and a curb is more laminar.  This laminar, non turbulent, flow of air is better for maintaining one’s speed.

 

Both of the aforementioned tactics allow for almost event free travel.

 

Summary.

 

These practices require further study as they do not appear to following automotive engineering practices of Europe, the USA, Japan, or South Korea.

 

Finally, I defer to other members who have been in Thailand longer for additional observations and conclusions.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree, virtually all of the above will have no effect on low speed acceleration and response. Anything below 70kph is unaffected by drag coefficient, certainly related to the scooter, the rider is much more of an issue there.

 

It is down to engine power and/or transmission/gearing and as has been suggested the variator is probably the easiest to alter.

 

If you employ all the factors you list you may just achieve another 5kph on your top end.

 

"Carbon fibre mirrors"? Do me a favour...........

Edited September 18, 2017 by AllanB

[macknife]

5 hours ago, AllanB said:

I think you are barking up the wrong tree, virtually all of the above will have no effect on low speed acceleration and response. Anything below 70kph is unaffected by drag coefficient, certainly related to the scooter, the rider is much more of an issue there.

 

It is down to engine power and/or transmission/gearing and as has been suggested the variator is probably the easiest to alter.

 

If you employ all the factors you list you may just achieve another 5kph on your top end.

 

"Carbon fibre mirrors"? Do me a favour...........

Whoosh!

[steven100]

Add one cup of AVgas or Jet fuel ...

[canthai55]

6 hours ago, AllanB said:

 Anything below 70kph is unaffected by drag coefficient, certainly related to the scooter, the rider is much more of an issue there.

On a bike, once you go over about 30 km/h, air pressure starts to dominate proceedings. Air pressure rises to the cube of speed, meaning that for every kilometer per hour, the corresponding air resistance increases by a multiple of 3,

It doesn’t take long before this quickly adds up to consume all of a motorcycle’s power, so much so that at a mere 100 km/h, 80% of a motorcycle’s energy is spent just overcoming air resistance. While that’s largely the same for any vehicle, including cars or planes, they are mercifully smooth, enclosed shapes. The motorcycle on the other hand, is a collection of random engineered parts and a human body which together form a shape almost perfectly suited to disrupt smooth air flow.

https://canadamotoguide.com/2016/05/04/motorcycle-aerodynamics/

[Techno Viking]

28 minutes ago, steven100 said:

Add one cup of AVgas or Jet fuel ...

I personally would not stick kerosene in my scooter.

[VocalNeal]

35 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

On a bike, once you go over about 30 km/h, air pressure starts to dominate proceedings. Air pressure rises to the cube of speed, meaning that for every kilometer per hour, the corresponding air resistance increases by a multiple of 3,

It doesn’t take long before this quickly adds up to consume all of a motorcycle’s power, so much so that at a mere 100 km/h, 80% of a motorcycle’s energy is spent just overcoming air resistance. While that’s largely the same for any vehicle, including cars or planes, they are mercifully smooth, enclosed shapes. The motorcycle on the other hand, is a collection of random engineered parts and a human body which together form a shape almost perfectly suited to disrupt smooth air flow.

https://canadamotoguide.com/2016/05/04/motorcycle-aerodynamics/

 

Anyone into Excel can make a spreadsheet or send me an email address and have mine. It is not much use in isolation though. I just used it over the years for comparison and verification.

 

The formula is

TS=Cx(HP^1/3)

 

Cx constants are		30.2      for a large cruiser
		31.79    for a medium sport bike
		32.99    for a small sport bike   For a PCX is around 31.5. I don't have any info for Yamaha. Allowing a PCX to develop its full potential and release 2 extra HP will nett a speed increase of about 6 kph. A Honda Forza 125 has a tad more HP and is a different shape so its Cx is around 33. Honda SH 150 is around 30.5. My findings are not an exact science though!   Variator mods on small displacement scooters are mostly for 16 years old European speed hungry teenagers with 125 scooters. Some 125 scooters in Europe are speed limited to comply with EU regulations.  I.E. PCX 125 is limited, from memory, to 9300 rpm. Oh and most speedos are 5kph fast!    Going up from a PCX125 to a PCX 150 doesn't do much for the top speed they are virtually the same.

Edited September 19, 2017 by VocalNeal

[Rolanddrums]

Hi , three things to do as a starting point ... 1 ) Run decent fresh fuel only . eg I only ever run Shell 95 in Thailand if available from a busy station ( Ie Pattaya Tai Road) ..Bottled multi coloured fuel could contain any blend of rubbish, who knows..2 ) Make your tyres are sufficiently inflated, underinflated causes massive drag at higher speeds ... 3) Check one of the brakes isnt binding . 

[M1Tanker]

Another technique that may be more cost effective than some of the aforementioned modifications is to pursue performance perception enhancements.  It appears that locals achieve one of these enhancements by increasing the consumption of วิสกี้ข้าว prior to or while operating scooters. (NOTE: The Thai word, วิสกี้ข้าว, is apparently referred to as Lao Khao. It is frequently packaged in small brown bottles formerly containing Thai energy beverages. For ease of understanding, วิสกี้ข้าว will be referred to as Lao Khao.)  The perception of performance is directly proportional to the amount of Lao Khao consumed.  Actual acceleration and speed improvements may not be realized but the rider will have the perception that those two characteristics have improved, thus increasing riding enjoyment.  Handling improvements were not previously addressed in this thread, but it has been observed that Lao Khao dramatically enhances the perception of improved handling as well.

 

Additionally, it has been reported that Lao Khao also improves one’s intelligence and self-confidence, as well as improving the appearance of others. One negative side effect, although temporary, is diminished hearing capability.

[VocalNeal]

^ Also has a stealth additive which makes other road users invisible. 

[AllanB]

4 hours ago, canthai55 said:

On a bike, once you go over about 30 km/h, air pressure starts to dominate proceedings. Air pressure rises to the cube of speed, meaning that for every kilometer per hour, the corresponding air resistance increases by a multiple of 3,

It doesn’t take long before this quickly adds up to consume all of a motorcycle’s power, so much so that at a mere 100 km/h, 80% of a motorcycle’s energy is spent just overcoming air resistance. While that’s largely the same for any vehicle, including cars or planes, they are mercifully smooth, enclosed shapes. The motorcycle on the other hand, is a collection of random engineered parts and a human body which together form a shape almost perfectly suited to disrupt smooth air flow.

https://canadamotoguide.com/2016/05/04/motorcycle-aerodynamics/

Okay, I suggest you do your own maths. Put a reasonably high pressure figure in for 30kph and then find out what you get at 100kph, I guarantee you will soon run out of noughts. Now transpose the formula and work backwards from this 100kph TV, the losses will very quickly disappear.

 

.......So I reiterate, none of the above will make any difference to "response". Only top speed and perhaps a little mpg. Look at your own formula for CD, it easily disproves your own argument.

 

.....Please show your workings for the above on your next posting.

Here is a start using your figures and even beginning at 70kph.

@ 70kph = 1psi; @ 71kph = 9psi; @72kph = 27psi; @73kph = 81psi; @74kph = 243psi, @75kph = 729psi, @76kph = 2,187psi; @77kph = 6,561psi; @78kph =19,683psi............

 

Instead, if you think about a practical example, the fastest accelerating land vehicles are dragsters, where aerodynamics are only really used to prevent flight. Planes travel much faster, with only high speed jets bothering about drag and aerodynamics are applied to cars to improve fuel consumption at motorway speeds.

Edited September 19, 2017 by AllanB

[M1Tanker]

40 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

^ Also has a stealth additive which makes other road users invisible. 

Good point.  Accuracy is important and achieving that accuracy is often made possible by knowledgeable and qualified  individuals providing constructive criticism. It is a real honor to participate in this particular thread and its dedication to engineering excellence.

Edited September 19, 2017 by M1Tanker

[VocalNeal]

In the spirit of accuracy I should also point out that your performance enhancer may also improve a person's night vision to the point where it renders lighting unnecessary on small motorcycles. 

[M1Tanker]

 

1 minute ago, VocalNeal said:

In the spirit of accuracy I should also point out that your performance enhancer may also improve a person's night vision to the point where it renders lighting unnecessary on small motorcycles. 

Another good point.  This added night capability apparently has been tested with automobiles, pickups, and commercial vehicles throughout Thailand. Once found, the testing results require further review for validation.

 

 

[AllanB]

For goodness sake!! Why is it that you guys on this forum cannot see the obvious? Einstein, also a fellow dyslexic, once said "speed is relative", although most of mine are not fast at all. Anyway what I am saying "it is all in the mind", or "mind over matter" to be precise.

 

So rather than spending a lot of money trying to get a couple more hp out of this tuned-for-economy shopping trolley, and/or fine tuning the CVT, or fitting Kevlar mirrors.....why not just hang out with slow folks? 

[canthai55]

Try these guys - quality work.

http://www.turbodynamic.net/content/garage-detail.php?gid=135

[VocalNeal]

^  Well working on a single cylinder worked for Honda F1?

[canthai55]

Lots of shops doing off-the-wall projects ...

https://rideapart.com/articles/worlds-fastest-honda-monkey-bike

[VocalNeal]

^ Everyone needs a hobby.

[VocalNeal]

I'm still pottering around with this! 

 

I found this on a scooter forum which gives relative increases. 

 

Variator - additional 1-2 HP
Exhaust - additional 0.5-1.5 HP
Enlarged Cylinder kit and big valve head - additional 4 HP

 

Extra capacity gives the biggest gain but for "bolt-on"?   Variator mods are the way to go.
 

Edited September 23, 2017 by VocalNeal
big fingers

[canthai55]

Only engine mods can increase horsepower. Burn more fuel, or burn that fuel more efficiently. Without RPM and/or Torque curves to document these changes, stats are meaningless. Variator mods only change the rpm at which this happens, so if it occurs at a higher RPM they can claim that it makes more HP. But that claim is BS. See above

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Only engine mods can increase horsepower. Burn more fuel, or burn that fuel more efficiently. Without RPM and/or Torque curves to document these changes, stats are meaningless. Variator mods only change the rpm at which this happens, so if it occurs at a higher RPM they can claim that it makes more HP. But that claim is BS. See above

That's about the Yin & Yang of it. 

Some of these tune up stuff is in the head my bike goes faster with 95 than 91 any gains are small without as you say engine mods.

My son after exhaust mods, power-commander & dyno tune gained HP but only noticed it on track day with lap times.

[VocalNeal]

54 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Variator mods only change the rpm at which this happens,

 

Exactly.  So helps a lot, say, going up hills. Can be 20 kph faster going up hills, if one wants to.

 

Stock variators are set up for everyone and economy.  

 

These numbers are for PCX new 125 (europe)  

KMH POT (CV) PAR (KG*M) T
10,0 11.149 4.84 1,30
11,9 11.688 4.89 1,32
20,0 9.333 3.10 1,52
30,0 11.325 2.65 1,94
40,0 12.434 2.29 2,36
41,8 12.494 2.22 2,44
50,0 12.227 1.85 2,88
60,0 11.525 1.48 3,52
70,0 12.142 1.34 4,30
80,0 12.119 1.18 5,12
90,0 10.250 0.90 6,18
100,0 9.838 0.78 7,46

 

The stock variator only allows the bike to develop 10.5hp

 

PCX 125 JCOSTA EXH&VARI 12.494 (12.494) / 41.8 4.89 (4.89) / 11.9 23.0 ºC 64 % 987.0 mbar 107.9 08/06/2010 11:45:26
PCX 125 JCOSTA EXHAUST 11.008 (11.008) / 54.7 3.58 (3.58) / 11.6 23.0 ºC 64 % 987.0 mbar 102.0 08/06/2010 10:47:30
PCX 125 ORIGINAL 10.529 (10.529) / 30.6 3.80 (3.80) / 11.5 23.5 ºC 58 % 993.0 mbar 101.6 07/06/2010 11:28:20

 

Change the exhaust on a stock bike and it sounds louder but only netts 0.5hp but change the variator and release the extra 1.5hp. which agreed was there all the time. But not available with a standard set up. 

 

Acceleration times are on the dyno not on the road ! 

 

Quote

but only noticed it on track day with lap times.

The bike above was up to 8 seconds faster (52 vs 62 seconds) around a 980 m go-kart track. But Honda's stock set up although slower was very consistence and within 1 sec for riders varying from 70 to 100 kgs.

 

In the OP's case we are only looking for a small cheap "bolt-on" release of latent performance not an increase in HP. 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2017 by VocalNeal