Police again extorting foreigners that dont carry passport

[gandalf12]

2 hours ago, atyclb said:

circa 03:00

Could be they tried it at time time thinking the money want paid they could day drinking or whatever after official closing time. At that time in the morning they have far more chance of thinking up reasons than in the day time. You should be able to go out and come home at any time but we all know they will look for any excuse

[tropo]

2 hours ago, sinbin said:

 

3 hours ago, tropo said:

So you're trying to tell me that a policeman told you that 95% of all fines paid at the police station are given to the police officers on top of their salary as a bonus,

No I'm saying the policeman that issues the fine ticket receives 95% of the tickets fine. Where it's paid is irrespective. If you can prove he was telling lies then I'll gladly give 5,000 Baht to my local wat. If he isn't lying then you just make a public apology. I know 100% that my money's safe. Now away and ask a policeman. May be Craigt3365 can go with you as he seems to support you in calling my informant a liar.

 

3 hours ago, tropo said:

but because they share them they go out and extort money to make extra.

That I never said. They're your words

 

 

Here's your post #66:

Quote:

"Everytime a police officer writes out a fine he receives 95% of the fine on top of his wages. Unfortunately the money is pooled between him and others, mostly office bound officers. That's not a good thing for the issuing officer as he wants it all, so hence the extortion, it's cash in hand. In fact if every police officer was to issue a ticket for all offences he comes across that 95% can be a big pot of money if the officer did his job with enthusiasm. But that would mean getting off his a-r-s-e and work. Always seems to be the easy option with these people."

You're suggesting that they extort for "cash in hand"  to make up for shortage of sharing the fines around the office.

 

Of course it matters where they are paid. Cash paid directly to police officers outside the police station are not fines. They are not receipted and illegal payments. Only fines paid at the police station are real fines and none of that money goes to any police officer.

 

Now, if you're talking about illegally extorted payments made on the street, then I agree that they are shared among many police officers, but they are not fines.

 

Now let's not be silly. I'm not going to "ask a policeman" about what they do with illegally extorted money.
 

Edited September 17, 2017 by tropo

[tropo]

2 hours ago, Sumarianson said:

It is far too dangerous to take a passport with you when going out in Bangkok. There are many pick pockets in Bangkok and I have personal experience of them. 

Shurely a copy on your phone is the same as a copy in your pocket?

LOL> what if they pick-pocketed your cellphone. They've been known to kill for them in Bangkok.

 

Just stick with a laminated copy - but just keep it outside of your wallet, in case they pick-pocket that too.

[ericthai]

On 9/16/2017 at 3:19 AM, atyclb said:

ended up giving 500 baht to buy cola at 7 11.   they could have dragged it on for hours.  i was a passenger in tuk tuk.

You read and speak thai but paid 500B??? you need to learn to negotiate better. I never had an issue about my passport but have had police make up all types of stories wanting their "tea money".. I typically pay 100B .  When they play their games it's best to just pay up or they will wait you out.  

 

 

[whaleboneman]

On 9/15/2017 at 11:53 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

If it's a published law it's not extortion.

If they put the cash in their pocket - it's extortion.

[whaleboneman]

On 9/16/2017 at 2:59 AM, sanemax said:

By asking for 5000 Baht on a non existent law .

If the Police want to see your PP , they can take you to the Police station and once you have shown it to them and everything's in order, they will let you go 

    The Police in this instance were just looking for an excuse to get 5000 Baht

What if it's dripping?

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, Sumarianson said:

Does anyone have experience of a photo copy of your passport pages on your phone being acceptable? I should think that with the smartphone evolution almost all foreigners would be able to store a copy on their phone?
It would seem like a sensible solution to me. Also having a copy on your e mail which could be accessed via computer or phone. 
Comments please.

 

I've not had first hand experience of using a photo of my Passport ID Page, Visa Page etc on my phone when stopped in the street, however, I have had this discussion with friends who work for RTP Immigration. They tell me that it is law that a foreigner must carry their passport at all times - its that simple. 

They have also told me that the Pol. Lt. General who announced that foreigners do not need to carry their passport at all times and that a photo-copy will suffice is wrong, he is also no longer in the position and this is 'old news'.

 

That said, they agreed that under normal circumstances, if they stopped a foreigner and requested ID and that foreigner showed them a Photo of their Passport ID page and Visa Page it would be sufficient, they are only after over-stayers, thus showing proof you are not on overstay is sufficient evidence for them not to be concerned with you. They also agreed that if you are polite there is no issue, when stopping someone they are commonly profiling your reaction. If you act like a d!<k you are going to face a little extra hassle. 

 

I'd like to add, this is information from a couple of guys and different Immigration Police may have different opinions, the police themselves may also have different opinions. As with many of these 'issues' we could encounter over here in Thailand it seems there are no hard and fast rules, but if we are compliant and have nothing to hide life is still relatively simple. 

 

Additionally, if I'm not mistaken only Immigration Police (Imm. Officer) or an Police Lt or higher can ask for your passport, more junior officers are not 'qualified' to check on your immigration status. However, for many who have been here any length of time, each situation is handled on its individual merits, if asked for ID its probably best to comply as best you can. 

 

I'm confident that if stopped my Thai Drivers license will suffice, if not the photos of my Passport ID page and Visa page on my phone will suffice... And if not, the Officer is definitely trying it which is when I 'call a friend'.

 

I've had to call my Immigration Friends once when stopped in a Taxi at Asoke. I was asked to show my Passport, I showed Thai Drivers license and then was told to get out of the Taxi. I realized I was getting the run around and called my 'friends' - issue resolved in seconds - IMO these guys were definitely on the 'make' when asking me to get out of the taxi... It was around the time of the famous 'pee test' issues foreigners commonly reported a few years ago in the Sukhumvit area. 

[Jim7777]

On 9/16/2017 at 1:58 PM, atyclb said:

 

normal traffic stop police that try to get cash from motorists

 

 

i asked them what station they are from and they said phaya thai but would not take me there.

 

they play the "inconvenience you" game .    finally one asked for money to buy "cola" as in coca cola.

I've lived here for 3 years and have never even spoken to a cop unless I initiate a conversation.  

[Spaniel]

On 9/16/2017 at 4:09 AM, atyclb said:

 asking if i am black is a fair question since blacks are being targeted nearby nana

I think he was referring to using the word Negro.    Even blacks don't like to be called a  Negro.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Spaniel
add info

[The manic]

5 minutes ago, Spaniel said:

I think he was referring to using the word Negro.    Even blacks don't like to be called a  Negro.

I think you mean people of colour...Sorry color.

Edited September 17, 2017 by The manic

[Spaniel]

Just now, The manic said:

I think you mean people of colour...

Yes, I think that's the lastest  name to identify anyone not white.

[sinbin]

8 hours ago, tropo said:

I'm not going to "ask a policeman" about what they do with illegally extorted money

That's not what I asked. You have a terrible habit of twisting what was said to suit your own agenda. I said 'policemen receive 95% of the fine they issue a ticket for'. I asked you to prove the policeman who informed of me this was not telling the truth. Nothing to do with 'police extorting money'.  I made a wager, you won't take it up, even though financially it won't affect you. I'll go as far as to open the wager up to all to prove the policeman was/is lying. Can't be fairer than that.  

Edited September 17, 2017 by sinbin

[Thian]

13 hours ago, partington said:

The point is no-one in the English speaking world has seriously used the word "negro" to refer to black people since around the 1960's or 70's.

 

The poster who used this term seemed to have been frozen in that era and only now resuscitated, like Austin Powers...

I don't think so mate, my english teacher was a real Britt (she even had been in those torturing camps from the Japanese she told us)  and negro is the right word for black Africans. Nothing wrong with that word, in Dutch it's called "neger"...Why do you think there are countries named Niger and the Niger-delta...or Nigeria???

[Thian]

2 hours ago, Spaniel said:

I think he was referring to using the word Negro.    Even blacks don't like to be called a  Negro.

Blacks don't like to be called nigger but that's what they do all the time in their own rapsongs.

[bleble]

And you paid 5000 ? hahahahahaha !

 

 

[bleble]

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I've not had first hand experience of using a photo of my Passport ID Page, Visa Page etc on my phone when stopped in the street, however, I have had this discussion with friends who work for RTP Immigration. They tell me that it is law that a foreigner must carry their passport at all times - its that simple. 

They have also told me that the Pol. Lt. General who announced that foreigners do not need to carry their passport at all times and that a photo-copy will suffice is wrong, he is also no longer in the position and this is 'old news'.

 

That said, they agreed that under normal circumstances, if they stopped a foreigner and requested ID and that foreigner showed them a Photo of their Passport ID page and Visa Page it would be sufficient, they are only after over-stayers, thus showing proof you are not on overstay is sufficient evidence for them not to be concerned with you. They also agreed that if you are polite there is no issue, when stopping someone they are commonly profiling your reaction. If you act like a d!<k you are going to face a little extra hassle. 

 

I'd like to add, this is information from a couple of guys and different Immigration Police may have different opinions, the police themselves may also have different opinions. As with many of these 'issues' we could encounter over here in Thailand it seems there are no hard and fast rules, but if we are compliant and have nothing to hide life is still relatively simple. 

 

Additionally, if I'm not mistaken only Immigration Police (Imm. Officer) or an Police Lt or higher can ask for your passport, more junior officers are not 'qualified' to check on your immigration status. However, for many who have been here any length of time, each situation is handled on its individual merits, if asked for ID its probably best to comply as best you can. 

 

I'm confident that if stopped my Thai Drivers license will suffice, if not the photos of my Passport ID page and Visa page on my phone will suffice... And if not, the Officer is definitely trying it which is when I 'call a friend'.

 

I've had to call my Immigration Friends once when stopped in a Taxi at Asoke. I was asked to show my Passport, I showed Thai Drivers license and then was told to get out of the Taxi. I realized I was getting the run around and called my 'friends' - issue resolved in seconds - IMO these guys were definitely on the 'make' when asking me to get out of the taxi... It was around the time of the famous 'pee test' issues foreigners commonly reported a few years ago in the Sukhumvit area. 

 

 

HAHAHA, this one made me laugh:

 

"commonly profiling your reaction"

 

As if any Thai was able to do this or even understand what it means !!!

 

 

 

 

 

[bleble]

5 hours ago, Jim7777 said:

I've lived here for 3 years and have never even spoken to a cop unless I initiate a conversation.  

 

Wait a bit more, you will be happy soon.

 

 

[hawker9000]

37 minutes ago, Thian said:

Blacks don't like to be called nigger but that's what they do all the time in their own rapsongs.

At least in the U.S., they don't find the word 'negro' really acceptable either, except among themselves of course.  (Entirely different rules for everyone else naturally...)  Most want you to use "African-American", which I personally refuse to do - unless they're actually native-born Africans who've immigrated - but many, and certainly the media, bend over & do it.

 

[bleble]

17 hours ago, hobz said:

Cops have tremendous power over people. They can just "find" a bag of heroin in your pocket. Now how you like your chances?? 

Ofcourse it's a risk for them to behave like this too but hey....

 

Anyway, corrupt cops that abuse their power by exploiting innocent people have a special place in hell. Frankly, they deserve to get executed for treason as they abuse and betray the power that was trusted upon them by the people of this nation.

 

I understand they need to make a living, but they could go find some actual traffic violators for that.. There's plenty.

 

Meanwhile they are extorting innocents, real murderers, rapists, child molesters are walking free..

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "kill cops" or whatever. I'm just saying that cops that behave like this should go to trial / court and be tried for treason and if found guilty they would possibly face the death penalty. I'm no lawyer or expert in Thai law

 

I am saying it for you !

 

 

[Thian]

Just now, hawker9000 said:

At least in the U.S., they don't find the word 'negro' really acceptable either, except among themselves of course.  (Entirely different rules for everyone else naturally...)  Most want you to use "African-American", which I personally refuse to do - unless they're actually native-born Africans who've immigrated - but many, and certainly the media, bend over & do it.

 

Well we are not in the US here and i'm not a Britt or american anyway.  In Holland the word "neger" is the real word for blacks from Africa, not offensive or anything at all...

 

And when i see young negro's with loud soundmachines on the streets they always play rapmusic which goes about nigga's this and nigga's that so i don't see the issue at all.

 

It's the same as the Thai calling us farang, some feel offended by it, others not....I don't care at all how they call me as long as it's not HEY BOSS, or YOU YOU YOU.....if they can't say "hello sir" i don't even listen or reply.

[dapperdan]

If I was detained because a photo copy of PP and visa was not good enough I would call the American Embassy hot line.

[craigt3365]

Just now, dapperdan said:

If I was detained because a photo copy of PP and visa was not good enough I would call the American Embassy hot line.

They won't be able to do anything.  And are well aware of the scams.

[dapperdan]

If you are detained, which is the same thing as being arrested, you call them and they are duty bound to come to where you are being held and give you a list of lawyers.  You choose one and it's up to you to pay the lawyer. Than it goes from there.

[Jonmarleesco]

On 9/16/2017 at 1:58 PM, atyclb said:

 

normal traffic stop police that try to get cash from motorists

 

 

i asked them what station they are from and they said phaya thai but would not take me there.

 

they play the "inconvenience you" game .    finally one asked for money to buy "cola" as in coca cola.

Phayathai? Then what the hell were they doing in Sukhumvit Road, at Nana junction? 

[tonray]

59 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

They won't be able to do anything.  And are well aware of the scams.

Correct...US Embassy does not make the rules as to whether you are required to carry a passport. Actually I believe the head of Police in BKK in 2016 said that foreigners should carry passports or copy at all times, he was a bit ambiguous as to whether digital copies were acceptable.

Edited September 18, 2017 by tonray

[Jim7777]

2 hours ago, bleble said:

 

Wait a bit more, you will be happy soon.

 

 

Yeah I doubt it I don't live in Bangkok or Pattaya.  Where I live the cops don't bother anyone.  My next door neighbor from the UK he's been here 20 years without any issues.  It's all about location down there in the hot spots like Pattaya that are overcrowded with foreigners of course the police are going to be checking more often.  

[Jim7777]

2 hours ago, bleble said:

 

Wait a bit more, you will be happy soon.

 

 

Also I've only lived here for 3 years but before that I visited here so much for the past 10 years prior to living here that I might as well have lived here.  I've never had any problems with the cops.  Just stay out of the trouble areas and you'll be fine.  

[Jim7777]

2 hours ago, bleble said:

 

Wait a bit more, you will be happy soon.

 

 

If you live in Bangkok or especially Pattaya what do you expect lol, and if you're hanging out in those particular "clubs" you are gonna be a target.  I've been all over the world and you're only a target if you make yourself one.  

[Jim7777]

3 hours ago, bleble said:

 

Wait a bit more, you will be happy soon.

 

 

Plus my wife's brother is a cop so yeah I think I'll be okay regardless I don't live in a city heavily populated by foreigners.  And pretty much wherever I go my wife of over 20 years is with me.  They are looking for all of you easy targets.  If you wanna see real police corruption go back to the states and live in a small town or county somewhere.  Whenever I see the cops patrolling my neighborhood I've never gotten more than a friendly wave sometimes even a salute.  

[partington]

7 hours ago, Thian said:

I don't think so mate, my english teacher was a real Britt (she even had been in those torturing camps from the Japanese she told us)  and negro is the right word for black Africans. Nothing wrong with that word, in Dutch it's called "neger"...Why do you think there are countries named Niger and the Niger-delta...or Nigeria???

Then what's your explanation for the person who asked you if you'd stepped out of a time machine? You do know Austin Powers, right?

 

  

"There's only two things I hate in this world: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch"

 

Nigel Powers in Goldmember (2002)