U.S. Senate backs massive increase in military spending

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Perhaps this is a better way to view military expenditures.  Looking at the total is perhaps not the best approach???

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2015/06/25/the-biggest-military-budgets-as-a-percentage-of-gdp-infographic-2/#5a5b29d4c47f

And even that is flawed. The contents of the comparison has to be equal, for US e.g. military pensions are included, for others they're not.

[pegman]

On September 19, 2017 at 1:35 AM, craigt3365 said:

Name one nation where the rich don't want to get richer. LOL

 

The US spends a lot, but as a leader in global commerce, it's paid off quite nicely.

Paid off? Not for the average American, who has less wealth than the average Slovenian. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult

[craigt3365]

5 minutes ago, pegman said:

Paid off? Not for the average American, who has less wealth than the average Slovenian. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult

BS.  Have you been to Slovenia?  The US is still in the top of the charts with regards to how well their citizens live.  Not the best, but very, very, very far from the worst.

[baboon]

35 minutes ago, Pib said:

Guess it costs a lot to help defend our allies in Europe, Asia, and other places....would be nice if they would spend more for their own defense.  

 

According to these Wikipedia references, an $81B increase is more than any U.S. ally spends on their entire military budget.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

Defend them from what?

[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, baboon said:

Defend them from what?

Russia who's invaded several countries lately.  China who has an incredible number of claims for territory with other nations, not to mention their military buildup in the South China Seas.  North Korea who's threatening to sink Japan and bomb Seoul.  Etc, etc, etc.

[pegman]

1 hour ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

"We will be spending almost $700 billion on our military and defense. Our military will soon be the strongest it has ever been."

This short statement contains the key to unlock the reason behind the fact that while the US military is extremely good at killing people in large numbers, it is also extremely bad at winning wars.

Like most Americans, Trump is under the illusion that spending a lot of money "buys" you a better military. That's hogwash, of course. If spending money was the key to a competent military force, the US armed forces would have already conquered the entire planet many times over. In reality, they have not won anything meaningful since 1945.

 

Good thing too because I've been to Detroit and Saigon and can say the right guys won.  

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, pegman said:

Good thing too because I've been to Detroit and Saigon and can say the right guys won.  

Exactly.  Detroit has some lovely areas.  I'm from there.

[pegman]

17 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

BS.  Have you been to Slovenia?  The US is still in the top of the charts with regards to how well their citizens live.  Not the best, but very, very, very far from the worst.

Sorry to bring FACTS into it but here are the median wealth for these countries:

USA        $44,911us

Slovenia $44,932us

some others:

UK           $111,524us

Italy.        $138,653us

Greece.   $53,937us

Edited September 22, 2017 by pegman

[pegman]

3 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Exactly.  Detroit has some lovely areas.  I'm from there.

Just keep your doors locked driving around. Plus you Yanks lost. Check the history books.

[baboon]

10 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Russia who's invaded several countries lately.  China who has an incredible number of claims for territory with other nations, not to mention their military buildup in the South China Seas.  North Korea who's threatening to sink Japan and bomb Seoul.  Etc, etc, etc.

I write this from the UK where funnily enough nobody is remotely concerned with being overrun and occupied by the Russians or the Chinese. That'll be because it isn't actually going to happen with or without this military spending increase by the US.

[Pdaz]

1 hour ago, attrayant said:

An $81 billion increase - am I reading that right?  

 

That's about twice the amount that Bernie's "Free College for All" plan would have cost, and many conservatives said his plan would bankrupt America.

Free college for all... If everybody in the country has a college degree what good will it be ? Will just become a pointless piece of paper and a box ticking exercise. Gotta love socialism. 

 

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, pegman said:

Sorry to bring FACTS into it but here are the median wealth for these countries:

USA        $44,911us

Slovenia $44,932us

some others:

UK           $111,524us

Italy.        $138,653us

Greece.   $53,937us

That's a huge difference!  I'm sure those in Slovenia use that money to buy Mercedes and other luxury items those in the US can't afford. LOL

 

How about looking at per capital income.  We could play these stats games all day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

11

United States

57,436

 

37

Slovenia

32,085

[ilostmypassword]

8 minutes ago, pegman said:

Sorry to bring FACTS into it but here are the median wealth for these countries:

USA        $44,911us

Slovenia $44,932us

some others:

UK           $111,524us

Italy.        $138,653us

Greece.   $53,937us

Those figures are about "wealth" not income. I suspect that most of this "wealth" comes from home ownership. I could be wrong, of course. Could you post the source of this info?

[Pdaz]

10 minutes ago, pegman said:

Sorry to bring FACTS into it but here are the median wealth for these countries:

USA        $44,911us

Slovenia $44,932us

some others:

UK           $111,524us

Italy.        $138,653us

Greece.   $53,937us

That may be the median wealth.. but now compare the cost of living.. 

[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, baboon said:

I write this from the UK where funnily enough nobody is remotely concerned with being overrun and occupied by the Russians or the Chinese. That'll be because it isn't actually going to happen with or without this military spending increase by the US.

I don't think anybody in the US is worried about being overrun and occupied by the Russians or the Chinese.  Primarily due to the military.

 

Now those in South Korea, Ukraine, the Baltics, Vietnam, India, etc, have different opinions. 

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

Those figures are about "wealth" not income. I suspect that most of this "wealth" comes from home ownership. I could be wrong, of course. Could you post the source of this info?

Exactly right. 

[craigt3365]

10 minutes ago, pegman said:

Just keep your doors locked driving around. Plus you Yanks lost. Check the history books.

You've not spent much time in Detroit.  It's like any other big city.  Some good areas and some bad.

 

Please refrain from the term Yanks.  It's offensive to some of us. 

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

I don't think anybody in the US is worried about being overrun and occupied by the Russians or the Chinese.  Primarily due to the military.

 

Now those in South Korea, Ukraine, the Baltics, Vietnam, India, etc, have different opinions. 

And this spending increase won't make an iota of difference to whether or not hostilities break out.

[attrayant]

1 hour ago, Pdaz said:

Free college for all... If everybody in the country has a college degree what good will it be ? Will just become a pointless piece of paper and a box ticking exercise. Gotta love socialism. 

 

 

1. Free college for all does not mean everyone will have a college degree.  Some people don't want to go to college, and the more people who do will cause the value of non-college educational tracks (such as trade schools) to increase.

 

2. Education is not a commodity, so you can't apply the laws of supply and demand to it.  If you could, then the list of most educated states would also be the poorest due to their educational "commodity" being spread so thin.  In fact, the reverse is true.  Here are the top ten most educated states:
 

 

Here's the bottom of that list; the least educated:

 

 

Now compare that with the median household income.  That's probably just a coincidence, right?

 

Edited September 22, 2017 by attrayant

[Morch]

8 hours ago, Goodwill Jones said:

What is criminal is that we have the technology to take NK's rockets out before they can get off the ground.  The public cannot know this because, then we could not rattle the sabers. Then it would be harder to  pick our pocket so easy to buy useless crap.  “We now have the technology to take ET home.” said Ben Rich from the Skunks works over 20 yrs ago. The ants have not confronted the grasshoppers yet.  This nonsense is about as useful as the combustion engines from 100 yrs ago. We have such great technology but only the chosen can know we have.

 

Ben Rich misquoted by many in the UFO community

https://noriohayakawa.wordpress.com/2016/07/01/ben-rich-erroneously-misquoted-by-the-ufo-community/

[Morch]

5 hours ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

"We will be spending almost $700 billion on our military and defense. Our military will soon be the strongest it has ever been."

This short statement contains the key to unlock the reason behind the fact that while the US military is extremely good at killing people in large numbers, it is also extremely bad at winning wars.

Like most Americans, Trump is under the illusion that spending a lot of money "buys" you a better military. That's hogwash, of course. If spending money was the key to a competent military force, the US armed forces would have already conquered the entire planet many times over. In reality, they have not won anything meaningful since 1945.

 

 

This may have something to do with changes as to how war is waged, what constitutes victory, and how countries are expected to deal with the aftermath. 

[Morch]

On 9/19/2017 at 8:55 AM, Rancid said:

See "Defense Contractor" stocks went up on the news, obviously with the 20 trillion dollar deficit even more money goes to the largest military in the world (defending against who?) rather than into infrastructure or other useful projects. I guess America First wasn't actually about working families but rather to further fatten the wallets of societies parasites.

 

The irony here of course being that those that stay at home nice and safe get even richer while the returning mentally and physically injured Vets are still poorly treated.

 

Do people employed by firms winning defense-related contracts and USA military personnel qualify as "working families"?

[DaddyWarbucks]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

This may have something to do with changes as to how war is waged, what constitutes victory, and how countries are expected to deal with the aftermath. 

Nonsense.

Victory will always be victory and defeat will always be defeat, no matter how you spin it.

Anyone who lived in the USA before, during, and after the Vietnam War knows how it changed the country for the worse in every conceivable way.

[easton]

Republicans and Democrats are both bought and paid for by the Military Industrial Complex. 

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

Nonsense.

Victory will always be victory and defeat will always be defeat, no matter how you spin it.

Anyone who lived in the USA before, during, and after the Vietnam War knows how it changed the country for the worse in every conceivable way.

 

War didn't use to involve country building post-victory, war didn't have that many constraints placed on combatants, war was less asymmetrical in the past, there was way less information and public awareness of conditions and events. And war got more expensive to wage.

 

Compare WW2 and the Vietnam War on all these counts, they aren't the same. And the trend just went on.

 

[ilostmypassword]

43 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

War didn't use to involve country building post-victory, war didn't have that many constraints placed on combatants, war was less asymmetrical in the past, there was way less information and public awareness of conditions and events. And war got more expensive to wage.

 

Compare WW2 and the Vietnam War on all these counts, they aren't the same. And the trend just went on.

 

What victories did the USA have post WW2 that involved building countries? Unless you count the Korean War as a victory, and that was more a case of helping to rebuild South Korea, I can't think of any. 

[Scott]

Troll posts and replies removed.  

[pegman]

14 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

That's a huge difference!  I'm sure those in Slovenia use that money to buy Mercedes and other luxury items those in the US can't afford. LOL

 

How about looking at per capital income.  We could play these stats games all day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

11

United States

57,436

 

37

Slovenia

32,085

There is no disputing that the USA has a very large number of billionaires and huge military. What my point is is that by having those things supported by gov policies it leaves the average person poorer in the USA than in Slovenia. The fruits of that much higher GDP per person go to your rich getting richer and your military looking for places to start wars. It does not go to the wealth of most of your citizens. I come from Canada and I am over joyed our average guy is >2x as wealthy as the average American. To get there meant our leaders did not get sucked into the false premises of the Iraq War. Nor do they make tax policies that only help the rich get richer. They don't make laws that pretty much outlaw unions that give the working class some little amount of clout. All this and ALL our people are covered by single payer healthcare. 

[pegman]

5 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

What victories did the USA have post WW2 that involved building countries? Unless you count the Korean War as a victory, and that was more a case of helping to rebuild South Korea, I can't think of any. 

Isn't the Korean War unsettled? 

[inThailand]

and some $60 billion to fund the conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and elsewhere

 

Are Americans complete idiots. F...these countries, and spend the money on infrastructure, hospitals, schools, wine, women, anything but on towel head countries.