Must Read If threatened, U.S. will 'totally destroy' North Korea, Trump vows

[habanero]

13 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Watched the whole thang. Could not believe anyone could give a speech in which all the things complained about were applicable to his own country as much as those being called out. Hint... start by addressing the same issues in your own country before chastising the rest of the world.

I respect your opinion. Don't agree with it, but I do respect it.  What is it you would like to have heard from him? Did he not say before the world body, that he will put America first?  What did you want him to do? Address the problems in your country?

Edited September 20, 2017 by habanero

[Stargeezr]

Yes Habanero, I agree with you. lostmypassword not so much, still not sure what

country you came from, but glad you enjoy living cheaply in Thailand. Canada has

a green guy for a leader, one with nice hair but  I will question his brain power. A lot

of us Canadians are hoping for a new leader after the next federal election.

Geezer

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

Yes Habanero, I agree with you. lostmypassword not so much, still not sure what

country you came from, but glad you enjoy living cheaply in Thailand. Canada has

a green guy for a leader, one with nice hair but  I will question his brain power. A lot

of us Canadians are hoping for a new leader after the next federal election.

Geezer

lostmypassword is from the UK.

[habanero]

4 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

lostmypassword is from the UK.

I am from Thailand. Lived in the United States for 30 years before returning back to Thailand. I have duel citizenship.  As much as I love Thailand, I also love and hold allegiance to the country that my husband served and came from. Also, the country that gave me the opportunity to get a great education, the United States.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Despite my pessimism about NK sanctions, I do agree with the Swedish FM that it was the wrong speech at the wrong time to the wrong audience by Trump.

 

One of the many problems with Trump is that he has no respect or appreciation for diplomacy and diplomatic customs/niceties. Yes, the U.S. can blow up N.K. and the world for that matter, with Trump holding the keys, unfortunately.

 

But despite his America first rhetoric, the U.S. still needs allies in the world, and still needs the cooperation of other nations on a range of issues, despite the flaws/failings of the U.N. 

 

When he gives a speech like that at the United Nations, he needlessly offends the leaders and diplomats of other nations, including U.S. allies, and probably reinforces the perhaps not-unfounded perception of many in the world that he's a dangerously crazy guy to have as a president of the United States.

 

[mikebike]

12 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

I listened to part of it.  I've got a hard time listening to him at all. LOL.  But one thing I did like.  He said it like it is.  In one way, it's refreshing. 

 

The UN isn't a place to deal with issues in your own country.  It's talking to the global community.  The state of the union speech is where Trump will talk about issues in the US.  I'll avoid that speech. LOL

 

P.S. The US isn't a state sponsor of terrorism like Iran.  It's not threatening to nuke a neighboring country...or sink them.  The US isn't perfect, but it's far from the worst country on the planet.  I tend to ignore most of what Trump now says.  Sadly.

It is very difficult to convince the global community of anything you may be passionate about without first establishing your own credentials on the same issues at home. If the world thinks you have one rhetoric for them and another for the home audience they are savvy enough to understand that you are talking out of both sides of your mouth and will have zero respect.

 

The International Court of Justice and the facts would disagree with your statement that the USA is not a sponsor of state terrorism.

 

No USA is not threatening to nuke or sink a neighbouring country. But they have threatened Mexico in many other ways. They are however threatening to nuke or sink a country on the other side of the world because... what? We are the World Police I guess... Which goes back to my original point - how can he believe he has a mandate to dictate world policy when his own house is in complete disarray?

 

 

 

[maximillian]

3 hours ago, steven100 said:

Good job Mr Trump .....   at least he has the balls to speak his mind.  

He may have balls but no brain and no moral, unfortunatelly.

The US has destroyed North Korea once before. They sanctioned and isolated N.K. for decades already, preventing any normal development of that oppressed and maltreaded country.

It's time to remind the public of the whole world about the tragedy of the forgotten Korean war.

I can fully comprehend Kim's desire for nukes. Without them he might face the same fate as Saddam Hussein and Gadaffi.

If that homicidal maniac Trump wants to destroy N.K. what will happen to S.K. ? 

Nuclear fallout doesn't stop at 38 latitude. Millions of South Koreans, Chinese, Philippinos and other Countries would suffer. Collateral damage, never mind.

Oh, I forgot, the US have very precise and smart nukes, so why not use them ?

[habanero]

21 minutes ago, mikebike said:

It is very difficult to convince the global community of anything you may be passionate about without first establishing your own credentials on the same issues at home. If the world thinks you have one rhetoric for them and another for the home audience they are savvy enough to understand that you are talking out of both sides of your mouth and will have zero respect.

 

The International Court of Justice and the facts would disagree with your statement that the USA is not a sponsor of state terrorism.

 

No USA is not threatening to nuke or sink a neighbouring country. But they have threatened Mexico in many other ways. They are however threatening to nuke or sink a country on the other side of the world because... what? We are the World Police I guess... Which goes back to my original point - how can he believe he has a mandate to dictate world policy when his own house is in complete disarray?

 

 

 

The U.S. is not in disarray. That is what the liberal media would like you to think. The U.S. is doing just fine. Stock market has never been higher, unemployment low. More people working and getting off of welfare. Finally a president that the military supports. Trump is doing just fine. It could have been worst. 

Could of had a president that couldn't remember a thing under oath, but remembers enough to write a 512 page book..............

Edited September 20, 2017 by habanero

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

 

Quote

 

Yes, NK is an oppressed and "maltreaded" country to use your word. But it's not the U.S. or any other foreign power that's responsible for that.

 

 

Well, I was a bit narrow when I made that statement. I should have said, not any other foreign power, except for Russia and China -- both of which directly helped plan for, approved and supported NK's invasion of SK.

 

Quote

 

Kim began seeking Stalin's support for an invasion in March 1949, traveling to Moscow to attempt to persuade him.^[89]

Stalin initially did not think the time was right for a war in Korea. Chinese Communist forces were still embroiled in the Chinese Civil War, while U.S. forces remained stationed in South Korea.^[90] By spring 1950, he believed that the strategic situation had changed: Mao's Communist forces had secured final victory in China, U.S. forces had withdrawn from Korea, and the Soviets detonated their first nuclear bomb, breaking the U.S. atomic monopoly.

 

As the U.S. had not directly intervened to stop the communist victory in China, Stalin calculated that they would be even less willing to fight in Korea, which had much less strategic significance. The Soviets had also cracked the codes used by the U.S. to communicate with their embassy in Moscow, and reading these dispatches convinced Stalin that Korea did not have the importance to the US that would warrant a nuclear confrontation.^[91] Stalin began a more aggressive strategy in Asia based on these developments, including promising economic and military aid to China through the Sino-Soviet Treaty of Friendship, Alliance, and Mutual Assistance.^[92]

 

In April 1950, Stalin gave Kim permission to invade the South under the condition that Mao would agree to send reinforcements if needed. Stalin made it clear that Soviet forces would not openly engage in combat, to avoid a direct war with the United States.^[93] Kim met with Mao in May 1950. Mao was concerned the U.S. would intervene but agreed to support the North Korean invasion. China desperately needed the economic and military aid promised by the Soviets.^[94] However, Mao sent more ethnic Korean PLA veterans to Korea and promised to move an army closer to the Korean border.^[95] Once Mao's commitment was secured, preparations for war accelerated.^[96][97]
 

Soviet generals with extensive combat experience from the Second World War were sent to North Korea as the Soviet Advisory Group. These generals completed the plans for the attack by May.^[98] The original plans called for a skirmish to be initiated in the Ongjin Peninsula on the west coast of Korea. The North Koreans would then launch a counterattack that would capture Seoul and encircle and destroy the South Korean army. The final stage would involve destroying South Korean government remnants, capturing the rest of South Korea, including the ports.^[99]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

Edited September 20, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[craigt3365]

13 minutes ago, maximillian said:

He may have balls but no brain and no moral, unfortunatelly.

The US has destroyed North Korea once before. They sanctioned and isolated N.K. for decades already, preventing any normal development of that oppressed and maltreaded country.

It's time to remind the public of the whole world about the tragedy of the forgotten Korean war.

I can fully comprehend Kim's desire for nukes. Without them he might face the same fate as Saddam Hussein and Gadaffi.

If that homicidal maniac Trump wants to destroy N.K. what will happen to S.K. ? 

Nuclear fallout doesn't stop at 38 latitude. Millions of South Koreans, Chinese, Philippinos and other Countries would suffer. Collateral damage, never mind.

Oh, I forgot, the US have very precise and smart nukes, so why not use them ?

The US didn't destroy NK before, otherwise, we wouldn't be where we are today! LOL.  As for sanctions, perhaps the leadership of that country should accept the blame.  They are calling the shots.  No other country in the world has sanctions like this.  And for good reasons.

 

Don't rewrite history.  NK started the Korean war.  They would have been wiped out if it wasn't for the help of China and Russia.

 

You're supporting brutal dictators like Hussein and Gadaffi?  The atrocities they committed against their own people are well documented.

[mikebike]

28 minutes ago, habanero said:

I respect your opinion. Don't agree with it, but I do respect it.  What is it you would like to have heard from him? Did he not say before the world body, that he will put America first?  What did you want him to do? Address the problems in your country?

USA exists in the world, not a vacuum. To coexist in the world a nation must have some sort of sensitivity to other nations not just your own needs or desires. What he should have done is well described by TGJinBKK's post below. Looking at it at a personal level might be helpful. You are a condo owner and board member. Another board member (say Joe) is having major issues with the <deleted> in 4B. 4B can be a dick, we all know it. 4B and his nemesis are both the type that like to get drunk and play with guns. No one else in the condo likes either of them much. At the board meeting Joe goes on a rant to convince all others to join him in shunning and destroying 4B. In that rant he declares he will use all his, considerable, firepower to not just control 4B but to kill his entire family and, potentially, many of those in the units surrounding 4B will see their homes destroyed and loved ones injured or killed in the fight. Would YOU rush to back Joe in his obsession? 45 is, as he often is, his own worst enemy in getting anything he wants to do, done. Diplomatically bringing consensus to his side would have been a much more effective tactic than the bombastic rhetoric which appeals to few outside his base.

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Despite my pessimism about NK sanctions, I do agree with the Swedish FM that it was the wrong speech at the wrong time to the wrong audience by Trump.

 

One of the many problems with Trump is that he has no respect or appreciation for diplomacy and diplomatic customs/niceties. Yes, the U.S. can blow up N.K. and the world for that matter, with Trump holding the keys, unfortunately.

 

But despite his America first rhetoric, the U.S. still needs allies in the world, and still needs the cooperation of other nations on a range of issues, despite the flaws/failings of the U.N. 

 

When he gives a speech like that at the United Nations, he needlessly offends the leaders and diplomats of other nations, including U.S. allies, and probably reinforces the perhaps not-unfounded perception of many in the world that he's a dangerously crazy guy to have as a president of the United States.

 

 

[maximillian]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

You're supporting brutal dictators like Hussein and Gadaffi?  The atrocities they committed against their own people are well documented.

Were did you read me saying I'm supporting them ?

Read again.

Are countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya in a better situation today then they were before ?

Sure not. Syria might follow.

[habanero]

4 minutes ago, mikebike said:

USA exists in the world, not a vacuum. To coexist in the world a nation must have some sort of sensitivity to other nations not just your own needs or desires. What he should have done is well described by TGJinBKK's post below. Looking at it at a personal level might be helpful. You are a condo owner and board member. Another board member (say Joe) is having major issues with the <deleted> in 4B. 4B can be a dick, we all know it. 4B and his nemesis are both the type that like to get drunk and play with guns. No one else in the condo likes either of them much. At the board meeting Joe goes on a rant to convince all others to join him in shunning and destroying 4B. In that rant he declares he will use all his, considerable, firepower to not just control 4B but to kill his entire family and, potentially, many of those in the units surrounding 4B will see their homes destroyed and loved ones injured or killed in the fight. Would YOU rush to back Joe in his obsession? 45 is, as he often is, his own worst enemy in getting anything he wants to do, done. Diplomatically bringing consensus to his side would have been a much more effective tactic than the bombastic rhetoric which appeals to few outside his base.

 

Let me get this straight. You are comparing a quarrel between condo owners and the possibility that a nut job in N. Korea could potentially kill millions of people? Do I have this right?  You need some serious help! You remind me of an old western where the townspeople all hid in their houses while the sheriff had to fight it out with the outlaws that threatened the town. All the cowards hid until it was all over and then tried to act like they had something to do with ridding the town of the bad guys. 

Edited September 20, 2017 by habanero

[maximillian]

4 hours ago, rijb said:

Has that ever worked?

Diplomacy has worked many times. Everything else is destructive. Do we never learn ?

[mikebike]

16 minutes ago, habanero said:

The U.S. is not in disarray. That is what the liberal media would like you to think. The U.S. is doing just fine. Stock market has never been higher, unemployment low. More people working and getting off of welfare. Finally a president that the military supports. Trump is doing just fine. It could have been worst. 

Could of had a president that couldn't remember a thing under oath, but remembers enough to write a 512 page book..............

None of 45's executive orders, he has not passed any major legislation, have affected the stock market or employment numbers. He is riding on an economy which 44 built. Nice try though.

 

There is ample evidence in all media, even at Brietbart and InfoWars, that 45's house is in disarray. The USA as a nation is a different matter. There are ample checks and balances built into the system, but those do require legislators who actually care for people rather than corporate and monied interests. Good luck on that.

[transam]

Just now, maximillian said:

Diplomacy has worked many times. Everything else is destructive. Do we never learn ?

Soviet Union tried that with Hitler, all signed and sealed............Soon after millions of Soviets died...

[maximillian]

3 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

As Putin said, they'd rather eat grass than give up their nukes.  No easy answers due to a maniacal dictator.  Who's lives the good life while his people suffer.

You're not talking nicely about your president.

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

P.S. The US isn't a state sponsor of terrorism like Iran.  It's not threatening to nuke a neighboring country...or sink them. 

 

Funny how when people (Presidents) start rousing others up for a war, all of the minions seem to forget the reality of what is going on, a reality that ordinarily they seem to grasp. As a footnote with the level of money, arms and support given to rebel fighters in Syria that since took those resources and flipped to 'ISIS' it could be argued quite easily that the US are the biggest state sponsor of terrorism the world has ever seen. Can you tell me what state sponsored terrorism you believe Iran are actually involved in? further than that, not just the rumours but the evidence of the state sponsored terrorism you accuse Iran of.

 

They are a particularly unpleasant regime, far from the democratic paradise that once was the jewel of the Middle East - just before the US upset the apple cart, deposed the democratic Government and put the Shah on the throne which led to the revolution which led to...........you know. I do not recall any incidents of state terrorism from Iran before the US Military shot down an Iranian passenger aircraft full of innocent women and children. Did we all subsequently reap a just retribution?

 

Trumps rhetoric concerning N Korea is not helpful it is not constructive and it is not statesmanlike in any remote way. It is the same kind of talk you see in a bar brawl. Chest puffing rutting at it's worse and in this case it is being done with zero threat to the safety of the US (what happened to America First in that part of the speech!). The threat is to the safety and the well-being of the innocent civilians in S Korea, Japan, China etc etc. Trump may well have the technology at his disposal to put a tactical nuke through the specific window of a building, but he cannot control where the wind and weather will carry the deadly aftermath - no problem for him when the US is 7000 miles away.

 

And for those that think that China and Russia are conducting military exercises along the borders of N Korea to tell Kim Jong to get rid of his nukes, you just have not thought it through. Those military exercises are to tell Donald Trump to clear off and leave well alone until a peaceful solution or regime change can be engineered in N Korea. The Russians have just engineered regime change in the USA, I am sure in comparison N Korea will be a piece of cake. Maybe thats why Kim Jong won't let anyone have the internet.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Andaman Al

[maximillian]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Soviet Union tried that with Hitler, all signed and sealed............Soon after millions of Soviets died...

A good argument, Transam, to eliminate diplomacy altogether. Congratulation.

[mikebike]

19 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Yes, NK is an oppressed and "maltreaded" country to use your word. But it's not the U.S. or any other foreign power that's responsible for that. It's NK's own series of autocratic dictators that have kept the country in the dark and cut off from the rest of the world since the 1950s.

 

And in fact, it was NK that started that war by invading SK, bringing in a reluctant U.S. (at least in terms of the country's citizens) and the United Nation's to SK's defense, and then China on the side of NK. So please stop blaming the U.S. for the woes suffered by NK the country and its citizens. NK's own leaders are responsible for the path they've taken.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

In context the USA wasn't all that reluctant at the time to fight communism on all fronts - domestic and foreign - using any means necessary. CIA ops, regime change, backing terrorists, dealing drugs to fund covert ops, boots on the ground and American lives given towards the great cause were/are all on the table. I say are because they have just changed protagonists. Replace "communists" with "muslims" and nothing has changed.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, mikebike said:

In context the USA wasn't all that reluctant at the time to fight communism on all fronts - domestic and foreign - using any means necessary. CIA ops, regime change, backing terrorists, dealing drugs to fund covert ops, boots on the ground and American lives given towards the great cause were/are all on the table. I say are because they have just changed protagonists. Replace "communists" with "muslims" and nothing has changed.

That's why I specifically said, no great interest by the American population/citizens.  There was no great groundswell of U.S. popular support for the "war" in Korea. The average American citizen back then had had enough from WW II just a few years earlier and wasn't looking to start another fight. And in fact, it was NK, Russia and China, not the U.S., that effectively started the Korean "war".

 

As Wikipedia notes: It has been referred to in the English-speaking world as "The Forgotten War" or "The Unknown War" because of the lack of public attention it received both during and after the war, and in relation to the global scale of World War II, which preceded it, and the subsequent angst of the Vietnam War, which succeeded it.

[mikebike]

24 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

The US didn't destroy NK before, otherwise, we wouldn't be where we are today! LOL.  As for sanctions, perhaps the leadership of that country should accept the blame.  They are calling the shots.  No other country in the world has sanctions like this.  And for good reasons.

 

Don't rewrite history.  NK started the Korean war.  They would have been wiped out if it wasn't for the help of China and Russia.

 

You're supporting brutal dictators like Hussein and Gadaffi?  The atrocities they committed against their own people are well documented.

OK, NK started the war. Without US help SK would have been destroyed, without RU and China NK would have been destroyed. What is your point? NK suffered the same fate as Germany post WWI after the Korean War. Interesting that the results were more or less the same. Lesson should have been learned long ago.

 

Un, Hussein, and Gadaffi are/were all leaders of sovereign nations. None are/were a direct threat to the USA. Yet they couldn't resist the temptation to meddle and made things far worse. Those who ignore history... etc!

[habanero]

19 minutes ago, mikebike said:

None of 45's executive orders, he has not passed any major legislation, have affected the stock market or employment numbers. He is riding on an economy which 44 built. Nice try though.

 

There is ample evidence in all media, even at Brietbart and InfoWars, that 45's house is in disarray. The USA as a nation is a different matter. There are ample checks and balances built into the system, but those do require legislators who actually care for people rather than corporate and monied interests. Good luck on that.

Then why did the stock market go up the day "After" the election and never looked back?

 

[transam]

11 minutes ago, maximillian said:

A good argument, Transam, to eliminate diplomacy altogether. Congratulation.

Thanks.....For me the similarities are the two leaders were/are nutters, Cheesy and Adolf..

[ExpatOilWorker]

4 hours ago, trogers said:

Wonder what China's reaction would be if those missiles are swung around in her direction.

China is untouchable, they have covered the entire country in a shield of un-penetrable pollution.

[habanero]

41 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 

Well, I was a bit narrow when I made that statement. I should have said, not any other foreign power, except for Russia and China -- both of which directly helped plan for, approved and supported NK's invasion of SK.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

More plagiarism. Do you people not have opinions of your own?  They need to rename this forum the Copy and Paste club..................

[JHolmesJr]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

In an apparent veiled prod at China, the North's major trading partner, Trump said: "It is an outrage that some nations would not only trade with such a regime but would arm, supply and financially support a country that imperils the world with nuclear conflict."

 

absolutely have to agree….the world has let china hold it to economic ransom…they do as they bloody please. This must end.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, habanero said:

More plagiarism. Do you people not have opinions of your own?  They need to rename this forum the Copy and Paste club..................

Yes, it must be terrible to bring actual historical facts into the discussion, instead of unfounded and ill-informed opinions.

 

[Tchooptip]

2 hours ago, Slip said:

sorry- I was just kidding- should have put a smilie.

Personally, I understood... without the smiley  

[maximillian]

9 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Why? For working with the UN Security Council and dozens of other countries who are trying to make the Korean peninsula nuclear free?  Even Russia and China are in on this. And doing military drills right next to NK now.  Maybe we should sanction the entire world! LOL

And the US is doing military drills south of 38 lat. together with S.K. and Japan.

How can Kim not feel threatened ?

Edited September 20, 2017 by metisdead
Bold font removed.