Trump clashes with sports world over player protests, invitation

[iReason]

32 minutes ago, riclag said:

This issue at hand of  disrespect for my flag was not started by Trump it was started by  Colin Kaepernick.

 

The issue at hand is, the dotard fanned the flames at one of his Mussolini-esque rallies about a man who kneeled in silence,

five months before said dotard was even occupying the White House.

 

 

35 minutes ago, riclag said:

Don't blame Trump!

Right.

[attrayant]

29 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

This sums my position up completely:

 

You're going to have to get over the fact that a huge part of the population disagrees with your position.  Flag worship is idolatry, plain and simple.  The only reason to do it is to impress other people.

[riclag]

30 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

It always amazes me about how constititutionally illiterate some people are. The founding fathers would have been horrified by your emotional attaching to a piece of cloth and and a repurposed and melodically dubious drinking song. They were men of The Enlightenment and wanted government based on rationality. Your kind of primitive sentiments would have been anathema to them.

I'll take that as a compliment considering a majority of American's who grew up honoring my flag and country feel the same way .It's through only this symbol and song that most American's can bond together,regardless of race,politics or what ever.It's rally around the flag time by honoring it not disrespecting it. The flag and song represent patriotism. Google the meaning of patriotism. "They where men of enlightenment and wanted  government based on rationality" That rationality is being attacked everyday by people and group's who have their own agenda's, especially the one's that believe it to be a living document.   

[FritsSikkink]

43 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

This sums my position up completely:

 

 

Utter nonsense, people carry a Nazi flag and an USA flag are complete idiots as the USA flag has been involved in a big war against Nazi's and against racists. Learn some history.  

[Thakkar]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

This issue at hand of  disrespect for my flag was not started by Trump it was started by  Colin Kaepernick. Don't blame Trump!

 

It has never been about disrespecting anything.

Eric Reid, former teammate of Colin Kaepernick, in an op-ed for The New York Times:

“After hours of careful consideration, and even a visit from Nate Boyer, a retired Green Beret and former N.F.L. player, we came to the conclusion that we should kneel, rather than sit, the next day during the anthem as a peaceful protest. We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy.

It baffles me that our protest is still being misconstrued as disrespectful to the country, flag and military personnel. We chose it because it’s exactly the opposite. It has always been my understanding that the brave men and women who fought and died for our country did so to ensure that we could live in a fair and free society, which includes the right to speak out in protest.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html?_r=1

[Andaman Al]

IRONY WARNING!

 

Have all the Trump supporters and those who think the NFL are being really bad (and how ratings and viewings will be effected) noticed that after participating in this thread, where ever you are going on the net you are now hit by NFL advertising from google! The NFL have never had it so good. You couldn't make this stuff up. Who watched NFL until now -oh only diehard football supporters that will NOT stop watching, and now I am ready to tune in and watch to see what the players do next to get Trump in a tweet storm. Ratings are rocketing! The Rocketman of ratings for the NFL - Trump!

[iReason]

8 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

IRONY WARNING!

 

Have all the Trump supporters and those who think the NFL are being really bad (and how ratings and viewings will be effected) noticed that after participating in this thread, where ever you are going on the net you are now hit by NFL advertising from google! The NFL have never had it so good. You couldn't make this stuff up. Who watched NFL until now -oh only diehard football supporters that will NOT stop watching, and now I am ready to tune in and watch to see what the players do next to get Trump in a tweet storm. Ratings are rocketing! The Rocketman of ratings for the NFL - Trump!

 

Well, the occupier of the White House is renowned for shooting himself in the foot.

 

Heck, he'll probably even attempt to take credit for the increased viewership. Believe me. 

 

Stand by:

Because he has more flip-flops than a Jimmy Buffet concert.

[Thakkar]

1 hour ago, iReason said:

 

Your country's anthem?

Quite a deplorable history behind it.

 

Perhaps that's why some so fervently defend it...

 

During his lifetime, abolitionists ridiculed Key’s words,

sneering that America was more like the “Land of the Free and Home of the Oppressed”

 

"In 1814, Key was a slaveholding lawyer from an old Maryland plantation family,

who thanks to a system of human bondage had grown rich and powerful."

 

"When he wrote the poem that would, in 1931, become the national anthem and proclaim our nation “the land of the free,”

like Jefferson, Key not only profited from slaves, he harbored racist conceptions of American citizenship and human potential."

 

"Africans in America, he said, were: “a distinct and inferior race of people,

which all experience proves to be the greatest evil that afflicts a community.”

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/wheres-debate-francis-scott-keys-slave-holding-legacy-180959550/

 

This tome to oppression written by a fanatical racist should be banned from anywhere.

 

That the acolytes wrap themselves in it, is reprehensible.

And an absolute display of ignorance.

By explaining the provenance of the anthem, you are only making the racist Trump supporters love it more!

[simple1]

7 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

 

It has never been about disrespecting anything.

Eric Reid, former teammate of Colin Kaepernick, in an op-ed for The New York Times:

“After hours of careful consideration, and even a visit from Nate Boyer, a retired Green Beret and former N.F.L. player, we came to the conclusion that we should kneel, rather than sit, the next day during the anthem as a peaceful protest. We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy.

It baffles me that our protest is still being misconstrued as disrespectful to the country, flag and military personnel. We chose it because it’s exactly the opposite. It has always been my understanding that the brave men and women who fought and died for our country did so to ensure that we could live in a fair and free society, which includes the right to speak out in protest.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html?_r=1

Good post. The hypocrisy of the Right is astounding regards "Free Speech". Another article, IMO, that does a good job of presenting the issues at hand...

 

The Supreme Court’s words have a profound cultural meaning that resonates far beyond the letter of the law. The government cannot force a man to violate his conscience. Nor should it try to bully powerful, private entities into doing what the state cannot legally accomplish. Private corporations should think twice before using their own economic and cultural power to enforce conformity, even if they are legally empowered to censor their employees. Again, the cure for bad speech is better speech, and free speech cannot flourish in the midst of a culture of censorship.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451877/standing-national-anthem-voluntary-not-required

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451877/standing-national-anthem-voluntary-not-required

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, ELVIS123456 said:

McCain is not a war hero in the eyes of many.  There is plenty of evidence in Google etc. but I did a bit for you/others.

 

"he grotesquely betrayed that honor when, under the pressures of torture, he broke. He abjectly signed a “confession” declaring him a “black criminal” and an “air pirate.” 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-true-nature-of-john-mccains-heroism
 

There is a book you should read if you want the details/truth:

https://www.amazon.com/Why-John-McCain-not-Hero-ebook/dp/B012B7M7HS

 

And as detailed in this post - he aint a good guy - he is a traitor and deceiver:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/20/the-horrors-of-john-mccain-war-hero-or-war-criminal/

 

McCain is often called a “war hero”, a title adorning an unlovely resume starting with a father who was an admiral and graduation fifth from the bottom at the US Naval Academy, where he earned the nickname “McNasty”. McCain flew 23 bombing missions over North Vietnam, each averaging about half an hour, total time ten hours and thirty minutes. For these brief excursions the admiral’s son was awarded two Silver Stars, two Legions of Merit, two Distinguished Flying Crosses, three Bronze Stars, the Vietnamese Legion of Honor and three Purple Hearts."

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-true-nature-of-john-mccains-heroism

 

And he betrayed the man that saved his life when he was shot down:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-542277/How-war-hero-John-McCain-betrayed-Vietnamese-peasant-saved-life.html

 

And now he is betraying the GOP and America by refusing to support any Trump initiative, because Trump claimed he wasnt a 'real' war hero.  And as shown in the above he aint:- he didnt fight, didnt save anyone, didnt risk his life in the face of death.  He only got medals and awards because his daddy was Admiral. That is why Trump said he is not a 'real' war hero, which was probably not a wise move for a politician, but as we know DJT speaks from the heart and is not a smooth as silk deceiving politician like the previous POTUS. 

 

McCain is a nasty vindictive scumbag and he aint no war hero in my opinion and in using the normally accepted definition of a war hero (but Daddy fixed all that).

 

Yours is a very dishonest post. The New Yorker piece you quote is actually how McCain felt about himself after being broken by torture. What kind of xxxxxxx are are you that could so misleadingly quote this passage.. Here is what follows that bit you quoted: 

To himself, after that, McCain was a traitor to his nation and his family. Returned to his cell guilt-ridden and despondent, he came close to suicide. This misery outweighed any possible sense of valor he might have derived from the stalwart resistance that actually defined his time in captivity, and that others would simplistically see as grand heroism.

Fair use rules prohibit me from posting more. But if anyone wants to see for themselves how low a member of thaivisa can go, he or she should go this link:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-true-nature-of-john-mccains-heroism

This is a guy who refused to be released from captivity until all his fellow captives were released. If that isn't self-sacrifice I don't know what it.

 I want to make it clear that I have almost no use for McCain politically. His claims to being a political maverick are very overrated.

 

[riclag]

14 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

By explaining the provenance of the anthem, you are only making the racist Trump supporters love it more!

What's racist got to do with this topic?Stay on topic

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, riclag said:

What's racist got to do with this topic?Stay on topic

Many people, including me, think that trump's bizarre focus on this issue (while Puerto Rico, brown people mostly, is literally DYING) is basically another diversionary dog whistle to the racists in his base. Keep in mind most NFL players are black. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Jingthing

[ilostmypassword]

45 minutes ago, riclag said:

I'll take that as a compliment considering a majority of American's who grew up honoring my flag and country feel the same way .It's through only this symbol and song that most American's can bond together,regardless of race,politics or what ever.It's rally around the flag time by honoring it not disrespecting it. T

You must have a very low opinion of Americans if you think "It's through only this symbol and song that most American's can bond together,regardless of race,politics or what ever." Are you some kind of Russian or God forbid, Brit?

[NanLaew]

49 minutes ago, riclag said:

It's through only this symbol and song that most American's can bond together,regardless of race,politics or what ever.

Oh, so it's not all about roasting marshmallows around the camp fire any more? I am gutted. Gutted I tell you.

 

50 minutes ago, riclag said:

It's rally around the flag time by honoring it not disrespecting it. The flag and song represent patriotism. Google the meaning of patriotism.

...and when you've completed that futile exercise, google up jingoistic nationalism.

 

Now, where's the bloody marshmallows?!

[riclag]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You must have a very low opinion of Americans if you think "It's through only this symbol and song that most American's can bond together,regardless of race,politics or what ever." Are you some kind of Russian or God forbid, Brit?

 Up to 90,000 plus American's in one venue standing up and celebrating the flag and Anthem for one purpose which is patriotism.Can you tell me where else this happen's ? 

[Thakkar]

17 minutes ago, riclag said:

What's racist got to do with this topic?Stay on topic

Who died and made YOU the moderator?

[NanLaew]

3 minutes ago, riclag said:

 Up to 90,000 plus American's in one venue standing up and celebrating the flag and Anthem for one purpose which is patriotism.Can you tell me where else this happen's ? 

Ummm... Pyongyang?

[Thakkar]

4 minutes ago, riclag said:

 Up to 90,000 plus American's in one venue standing up and celebrating the flag and Anthem for one purpose which is patriotism.Can you tell me where else this happen's ? 

Linking football with nationalism was— to quote another member who said   it in the  context of owners kneeling with players—“a big marketing ploy”

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, riclag said:

 Up to 90,000 plus American's in one venue standing up and celebrating the flag and Anthem for one purpose which is patriotism.Can you tell me where else this happen's ? 

Well, I'm not sure what your point is here. We certainly wouldn't expect 90,000 Americans to be doing that in say Thailand any more than we would expect 90000 Thais to be doing that in the USA.. On the other hand, people in Thailand in public places stop what they are doing twice a day to stand at attention for their National Anthem.  So what makes the Americans doing this so special? Plenty of countries around this world make this a practice. In fact, many make it criminal not to. Although I doubt it's the stars and bars that people in other nations are saluting. And I certainly hope that their anthem has a melody superior to the USA's.

 

ANd what has 90,000 americans got to to with the assertion you raised. You still haven't even remotely justified it. Let me remind you of what you said: "It's through only this symbol and song that most American's can bond together,regardless of race,politics or what ever.It's rally around the flag time by honoring it not disrespecting it."

[amvet]

6 hours ago, Credo said:

The Special Investigator has a great deal of latitude in what he investigates.   He will look into any suspicious activity, just as Bill Clinton was investigated for White Water and ended up getting into trouble for something completely different. 

 

So, we don't necessarily even know for sure what he is investigating.    

The deputy attorney general, Rod J. Rosenstein, appointed former F.B.I. Director Robert S. Mueller III as the special counsel to oversee the investigation into Russian tampering in the 2016 presidential election.

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, amvet said:

The deputy attorney general, Rod J. Rosenstein, appointed former F.B.I. Director Robert S. Mueller III as the special counsel to oversee the investigation into Russian tampering in the 2016 presidential election.

Not quite

 

§ 600.4 Jurisdiction.

(a)Original jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall be established by the Attorney General. The Special Counsel will be provided with a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses; and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted.

(b)Additional jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel concludes that additional jurisdiction beyond that specified in his or her original jurisdiction is necessary in order to fully investigate and resolve the matters assigned, or to investigate new matters that come to light in the course of his or her investigation, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General, who will determine whether to include the additional matters within the Special Counsel's jurisdiction or assign them elsewhere.

(c)Civil and administrative jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel determines that administrative remedies, civil sanctions or other governmental action outside the criminal justice system might be appropriate, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General with respect to the appropriate component to take any necessary action. A Special Counsel shall not have civil or administrative authority unless specifically granted such jurisdiction by the Attorney General.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/17/us/politics/document-Robert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.html?_r=0

[amvet]

4 hours ago, Berkshire said:

Speaking of "mocking," how do you feel about Trump "mocking" an American war hero?

 

[Trump is not a patriot. He is a coward who potentially colluded with a hostile foreign power to win a presidential election. No person should physically mock a vet who sacrificed their body for our nation. It is unfathomable that the Commander in Chief would mock John McCain.]

 

http://www.politicususa.com/2017/09/27/vets-blast-trump-disrespecting-veterans-physically-mocking-john-mccain.html

 

Are you really an American vet?  Sure don't sound like it.

I don't like much of what Trump does.  I liked even less what LBJ and NIxon did to me personally.  I'm a vet and don't kneel down during the playing of the National Anthem of America.  I honestly don't see what that has to do with football players disrespecting the American Anthem.  I'm a member of the 1.7 million member VFW who also slammed the small minority of football players who disrespected the American flag. 

 

I don't like Trump but unlike you and many people commenting on this thread I do respect the President because he is the President and the Anthem because it is the American Anthem. 

[amvet]

6 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

If you truly believe that 'there is no credible Russian story' .....then you're cemented into disregarding the cavalcade of proofs which have come down the tubes in the past year AND you don't want to believe unanimous findings of US intel agencies.  Heck, even die-hard Republican-over-country politicians acknowledge there's a big 'Russian story.'

 

Do you also believe the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor didn't happen in December 1941? 

I have seen a lot of evidence that Pearl Harbor happened but I have seen no credible evidence that Trump was involved in any election scandal with the Russians.  The Russians didn't like Hillary but that is just common sense.  Any reasonable country would have worked to help not get her elected. 

[Slip]

1 minute ago, amvet said:

I have seen a lot of evidence that Pearl Harbor happened but I have seen no credible evidence that Trump was involved in any election scandal with the Russians.  The Russians didn't like Hillary but that is just common sense.  Any reasonable country would have worked to help not get her elected. 

Why do you think it is that the Russians don't like Hillary? Do you believe then that the objectives of the Russians are aligned even slightly with those of the U.S? It seems to me that Russia would want the POTUS to be a person that served their interests rather than those of the country he or she was elected to serve.                 

[amvet]

30 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Not quite

 

§ 600.4 Jurisdiction.

(a)Original jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall be established by the Attorney General. The Special Counsel will be provided with a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses; and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted.

(b)Additional jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel concludes that additional jurisdiction beyond that specified in his or her original jurisdiction is necessary in order to fully investigate and resolve the matters assigned, or to investigate new matters that come to light in the course of his or her investigation, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General, who will determine whether to include the additional matters within the Special Counsel's jurisdiction or assign them elsewhere.

(c)Civil and administrative jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel determines that administrative remedies, civil sanctions or other governmental action outside the criminal justice system might be appropriate, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General with respect to the appropriate component to take any necessary action. A Special Counsel shall not have civil or administrative authority unless specifically granted such jurisdiction by the Attorney General.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/17/us/politics/document-Robert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.html?_r=0

That was my point.  He will have to get him on another charge like the reason they Impeached Clinton and not the subject for which they investigated him because that is bogus. 

[iReason]

54 minutes ago, amvet said:

The deputy attorney general, Rod J. Rosenstein, appointed former F.B.I. Director Robert S. Mueller III as the special counsel to oversee the investigation into Russian tampering in the 2016 presidential election.

 

Still waiting...

 

Posted 3 hours ago

   7 hours ago,  amvet said: 

They were from white players

Is that right?

Now it is White guys who said:

 

   7 hours ago,  amvet said: 

 amvet said:

1.  Dude's a chump. 

2.  Jive turkey. 

3.  I didn't vote vote but if I did it would not be fo dat honkey. 

4.  The next 64 interviews were non verbal.

You have yet to provide a source for your claim that you heard them in "interviews with the players" that you "listened to".

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, amvet said:

That was my point.  He will have to get him on another charge like the reason they Impeached Clinton and not the subject for which they investigated him because that is bogus. 

Whether it is "bogus" or not has not yet been determined. Anyone that says differently is horribly biased, on either side. 

[amvet]

57 minutes ago, iReason said:

 

Still waiting...

 

Posted 3 hours ago

   7 hours ago,  amvet said: 

They were from white players

Is that right?

Now it is White guys who said:

 

   7 hours ago,  amvet said: 

 amvet said:

1.  Dude's a chump. 

2.  Jive turkey. 

3.  I didn't vote vote but if I did it would not be fo dat honkey. 

4.  The next 64 interviews were non verbal.

You have yet to provide a source for your claim that you heard them in "interviews with the players" that you "listened to".

I have a lot of coaching friends in the NFL who stay in touch.  White or black makes little difference.  Football players aren't too bright.  About the only good thing one can say about their intelligence is when compared to soccer, rugby or Australian football players.   

Edited September 28, 2017 by amvet

[Thakkar]

1 hour ago, amvet said:

Any reasonable country would have worked to help not get her elected. 

It would be against American law for any foreign country or person to directly interfer in an American election. It is now widely accepted, even by Trump—albeit grudgingly—that Russia tried to interfer in the American election. It is now being investigated whether any American citizens colluded with that interference. 

 

Any reasonable country would stay out of another country’s free and fair elections. 

[iReason]

14 minutes ago, amvet said:

I have a lot of coaching friends in the NFL who stay in touch.  White or black makes little difference.  Football players aren't too bright.  About the only good thing one can say about their intelligence is when compared to soccer, rugby or Australian football players.   

 

Along with your insulting response to the athletes, just another pitiful deflection.

 

Still waiting for substantiation to your claim that you personally heard in "interviews with the players" that you "listened to".

 

 amvet said:

1.  Dude's a chump. 

2.  Jive turkey. 

3.  I didn't vote vote but if I did it would not be fo dat honkey. 

4.  The next 64 interviews were non verbal.