Just now, Blue Muton said:

 

Those used in yesterday's atrocity were legal.

Source?

Just now, connda said:

Semi-automatics are single shot firearms.  One trigger pull; one shot. 

 

Not when they've been converted, which we know was what happened in this case because the LVPD have already said so.

1 minute ago, connda said:

Source?

 

Las Vegas Police Department. They also confirmed that twelve of the 20+ weapons in his hotels had been legally converted to fully automatic.

Just now, Blue Muton said:

 

Not when they've been converted, which we know was what happened in this case because the LVPD have already said so.

You're splitting hairs.  If they have been illegally converted, they're illegal.  "But if you make all guns illegal, they can't be converted."  Correct. Instead they are bought on the black market.  Banning domestic gun puirchases will never stop gun violence because the countries dead set on banning there citizens from owning guns are happy to allow arms manufacturers operating within their borders to flood the rest of the world with weapons, which will, over time, come home to roost.  

Edited October 4, 20178 yr by connda

1 minute ago, connda said:

You're splitting hairs.  If they have been illegally converted, they're illegal.  "But if you make all guns illegal, they can't be converted."  Correct. Instead they are bought on the black market.  Banning gun will never stop gun violence because the countries dead set on banning there citizens from owning guns are happy to allow arms manufactures to flood the rest of the world with weapons, which will, over time, come home to roost.  

 

I am not splitting hairs. You are mistaken. They were legally converted with bump stocks, which are legally traded in Nevada. 

Just now, Blue Muton said:

 

I am not splitting hairs. You are mistaken. They were legally converted with bump stocks, which are legally traded in Nevada. 

Again. Source.  Not saying you're wrong, I just want to read it myself.

Ya'll really want to solve the problem?  Then call on your leaders to place a moratorium on all weapons manufacturing worldwide - from slingshots to H-bomb.  Best of luck.  I'm outta this thread.

16 minutes ago, connda said:

Semi-automatics are single shot firearms.  One trigger pull; one shot. 

 

So what is automatic about them? I'm not an American you see.

 

(I am an engineer and I'm sure ai could convert one PDQ)

3 minutes ago, connda said:

Again. Source.  Not saying you're wrong, I just want to read it myself.

 

Here's one:

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/vegas-gunman-possibly-add-on-rifle-automatic-article-1.3538453

 

I'm not a regular reader of this news outlet but it was one of the first articles that appeared when I Googled "Las Vegas Massacre Bump"

35 minutes ago, connda said:

Does it?  Define 'civilised world' without falling into the trap of demeaning other cultures and societies?
Are your speaking from the position of one who lives in an "exceptional", "civilized" country? 
Back up.  How many bombs have gone off in the civilized EU and UK?  How many terrorist attacks and assaults with the use of firearms that are not legally available in the country?  Did tough gun laws stop the slaughter in the the numerous attacks in, say, France?  Stabbings?  Time to ban knives?  Vehicular attacks? Time to take away the vehicles?  Bombings and acid attacks?  Time to stop selling household chemicals?  
I'm just amazed at how many of you folks want your 'civilized' countries to become totalitarian regimes which control all aspect of your lives in the name of the illusion of personal safety, which by the way, they can never guarantee.  "Civilized."  That's actually rather humorous, as well as ethnocentric. 

 

I'm from Yorkshire; doesn't get any more civilised than that!

4 minutes ago, connda said:

Ya'll really want to solve the problem?  Then call on your leaders to place a moratorium on all weapons manufacturing worldwide - from slingshots to H-bomb.  Best of luck.  I'm outta this thread.

 

What, too many people shooting at you? 

Just now, Grouse said:

 

I'm from Yorkshire; doesn't get any more civilised than that!

 

Yes, I recall reading somewhere that the mid nineteenth century was quite a civilised era.

4 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

 

Yes, I recall reading somewhere that the mid nineteenth century was quite a civilised era.

You'll have to go back further.

9 hours ago, CaptHaddock said:

The US is beginning to look like a failed state that cannot provide basic safety for its citizens.  The National Rifle Association, the propaganda arm of the American gun industry, has already bought and paid for Trump by contributing $30 million to his campaign last year.  They have similarly bought and paid for the Republican senators and many members of the House of Representatives long since.  So, any attempt to control guns will fail. 

 

But that's how things are supposed to work in a plutocracy.

 

 

Nah, don't ya see if'n all them thar concert goers had their own automatic weapons, they coulda kilt people in that thar hotel til they got him

1 hour ago, connda said:

I'm just amazed at how many of you folks want your 'civilized' countries to become totalitarian regimes which control all aspect of your lives in the name of the illusion of personal safety,......

 

Sensible people want law enforcement to enforce sensible laws.  If my neighbors are making molotov cocktails with the intent of firebombing the neighborhood, I'd like law enforcement to shut them down.  If a neighbor burns a meter high pile of plastic trash every day, outside my bedroom window, I want law-enforcement to make him stop.  It's not pining for totalitarianism, to want law enforcement to do their jobs. 

 

Similarly, if I have neighbors who are stocking military weapons and/or making bombs, I'd want law-enforcement to bust them.

 

52 minutes ago, connda said:

Ya'll really want to solve the problem?  Then call on your leaders to place a moratorium on all weapons manufacturing worldwide - from slingshots to H-bomb.  Best of luck.  I'm outta this thread.

 

That's the argument of a daft 6-year-old.   Bye bye.  You won't change your mind, even when mass gun murders keep happening in the USA at a rate of about 1 per day.   You'll blame it on everything else, except the fact that there are a plethora of military weapons flooding the US.  88.8 guns per 100 people, including infants.  

Just now, smotherb said:

Nah, don't ya see if'n all them thar concert goers had their own automatic weapons, they coulda kilt people in that thar hotel til they got him

 

Right, if half the 20,000 concert goers had military-grade weapons, the NRA and right wingers would have you believe the following:

>>>   They would know exactly where the gunfire was coming from - even though it took local police about 10 minutes to figure it out.  

>>>    They would shoot 200 meters up in the air, and kill the bad guy.  Note: even a military marksman would have trouble doing that.

>>>    More likely, the 10,000 gun wielding concert-goers would be shooting like a bunch of crazies - every which way.  In the heat of the panic, there were numerous reports of where the bad guys were.  Not only 2 or 3 different places at the Mandalay, but police intercepts showed people were reporting shots fired from several other hotels in the area.   Those 10,000 concert shooters would have had a party - shooting at half the hotels in Vegas - all in the name of shooting the bad guys.   How many more innocents would have died?  Who knows?

>>>    Maybe the gun-wielding concert goers would have charged into the Mandalay, guns blazing every direction.  Oh boy, that would be dramatic.  NRA would love that.   Gun shots are music to their ears.

2 hours ago, connda said:

"The US is beginning to look like a failed state that cannot provide basic safety for its citizens." The fact is that no 'state' or government can provide basic safety for it's citizens.  That, at best, is an illusion.  Which is why an armed citizenry provides basic safety for themselves.  When there are only seconds between life and death, the police are only minutes away. 

 

Connda pontificates; "Which is why an armed citizenry provides basic safety for themselves."

 

Boomer responds: uh huh, yea, like Somalia.  Come on Connda.  Armed rednecks aren't providing much safety for themselves.  Only in their warped fantasies.   It's more likely a toddler shoots his own dad, or shoots a playmate, than a gun-lover shoots an intruder into his house.   

 

         Of the average 1 mass murder (4+ people) per day for the past 500 days in the US, how many were stopped by 'armed US citizens?'   My guess:  ZERO.   There are about 100 gun-related deaths PER DAY in the US.  how many were thwarted by 'armed US citizens'?  My guess:  ZERO.   How many of those deaths were perpetrated by 'armed US citizens'?   my guess, 99.5%.

 

                   You get the picture?  Proliferation of guns = proliferation of gun deaths and injuries.  Do you want me to paint a picture of it for you?  If so, I'll have to use a lot of red paint.

Just now, connda said:

Does it?  Define 'civilised world' without falling into the trap of demeaning other cultures societies?
Are your speaking from the position of one who lives in an "exceptional", "civilized" country? 
Back up.  How many bombs have gone off in the civilized EU and UK?  How many terrorist attacks and assaults?  Did tough gun laws stop the slaughter in the the numerous attacks in, say, France?  Stabbings?  Time to ban knives?  Vehicular attacks? Time to take away the vehicles?  Bombings and acid attacks?  Time to stop selling household chemicals?  
I'm just amazed at how many of you folks want your 'civilized' countries to become totalitarian regimes which control all aspect of your lives in the name of the illusion of personal safety, which by the way, they can never guarantee.  "Civilized."  That's actually rather humorous, as well as ethnocentric. 

What's the homicide rate of these European nations compared to the USA? Higher or lower? I'll give you one guess.

8 hours ago, Grouse said:

How about a law saying it is illegal to own 40 machine guns? Are you people completely bereft of common sense?

 

Unfortunately I think they are... 

Edited October 4, 20178 yr by Basil B

4 hours ago, natway09 said:

He passed all the tests to buy the guns"

 

What tests?

 

Presume a few of these were the only licence he need to purchase all those guns.

One reason for the divisive split on gun control is the lack of objective data driven studies. The NRA opposes any federal funded research into the public health issues on guns. They much prefer this to continue to be a demogugary driven discussion that says the federal government is just waiting for a chance to confiscate everybody's guns.

TH 

 

Evidence and research that could be used to develop effective laws that might decrease deaths and injuries from firearms is severely lacking. Why? It’s partly the result of longstanding restrictions on federally funded gun-violence research.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/01/gun-control-laws-research/424956/

What a surprise. And what a shame that it really isn't.

Multiple shooters?  Something is not right here... https://steemit.com/news/@libertyranger/suicide-images-of-stephen-paddock-graphic-image-warning-can-you-find-the-number-13

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

I'm from Yorkshire; doesn't get any more civilised than that!

 

"Change the things that can be changed, accept those that cannot, and have the wisdom to know when it’s time to go to the pub.”

 

Nah then!

One way - maybe the only way - to get sensible gun control

Having the NRA control discussions/legislation re; gun laws, is like having Ted Kaczynsky (Unabomber) decide US laws on bomb-making and use.

 

The NRA is a terrorist organization.  Or, at the very least, it enables terrorists to do their carnage.

from the head doc in Vegas:

 

57 confirmed dead (not counting the shooter).

39 in critical condition.

 

Sweet dreams, gun lovers.

I think this is the right thing to do...both from a legal and political standpoint. The Second Amendment of the Constitution clearly allows for the personal right to gun ownership and the candidate that was for much stricter "gun control" laws lost the most recent presidential election and the candidate endorsed by the NRA won.

 

If anything, gun rights need to be more properly respected by many jurisdictions and the Justice Department needs to go after those that are infringing on gun owners' rights and there should be an expansion of rights...like national open-carry laws or, at a minimum, mandatory gun license reciprocity laws (like is the rule for driver licenses).

There isn't a gun law on the books anywhere in the States that would have prevented the Vegas massacre.

 

48 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

There isn't a gun law on the books anywhere in the States that would have prevented the Vegas massacre.

 

But there is in Australia.