Squatters' Rights

[JRinger]

Does anyone have knowledge or information regarding Squatters' Rights in Thailand?

Thanx in advance...

[bkkmadness]

I doubt if there is such a thing in this country. A few thugs would sort out any squatters and their supposed rights.

Why do you ask by the way? Problems with squatters or looking to have a squat yourself?

Edited January 10, 2007 by bkkmadness

[chownah]

The land I live on has no official paperwork....does this make me a squatter?

Chownah

[Briggsy]

Your rights depend on who your mates are and how much dosh you have. I'm not kidding.

[Gary A]

Squatters do have some legal rights. On a mountain near where I live the Thai government decided to build a forestry office. After they started building the office they were challenged by a guy who claimed to own the property. Construction stopped and after some negotiating, the guy was paid 10,000 baht by the Thai government to give up his claim. A Thai friend of mine who is near that property started building a house and was pushing the workers to get it finished. I asked him why he was in such a hurry and he told me he has no land papers. He said that if he has a house on the property the government won't bother him. ????

[old wanderer]

I thought I would post a part of an article that was on the board some years ago. As you see, it is possible to get "squtters rights" title to a piece of property. Foutuantly all the land my wife has aquired is with a Chanott. which we some times had to pay for to get this type of a title, but I feel it was good insurance. We have 6 different pieces of property now.

Land is titled depending on its survey status. Make sure of the land title before you buy, often prices vary greatly depending on the type title, or you might find someone else laying claim to your rai after just after you finish building your retirement home.

"Chanott ti din" are title deeds with land accurately surveyed. If you have one, it gives you incontestable possession of the land. The most developed areas of provinces have these titles. But even in farang-friendly Phuket, for example, only 10 per cent of the land is under this title.

As it stands, most "titles" around the country are "Nor Sor Sam" or "Nor Sor Sam Kor". They are land title deeds in as much as clear records of ownership are maintained, and that they may be sold or leased, but they tend to be less accurately surveyed than Chanott titles.

If purchasing Nor Sor Sam-titled land that lacks clearly defined physical boundaries, ask the owner to stake out the boundaries and then ask neighbouring landowners to confirm his work.

And there are more. Sor Kor Nung, Tor Bor Tor Hoc, and Tor Bor Tor Ha are essentially squatter's rights registered at the district office for a small fee. Unlike the Chanott and the Nor Sor Sam Kor, they cannot legally be sold, nor can you build on the land if you are stupid enough to buy it. So be a prudent foreigner and ignore the Sor Kors and Tor Bors.

Oh yes, I almost forgot one: the Sor Bor Kor. These are true title deeds, accurately surveyed and pegged (like a Chanott). They can be mortgaged and developed. But the big but is they cannot be leased, sold or transferred.

So, also ignore Sor Bor Kor.

Chanott and the Nor Sor Sam Kor are the only titles over which a registered right of ownership or lease. Stick to them.

Phil Macdonald

The Nation

Edited January 11, 2007 by old wanderer

[Gary A]

My wife recently bought a small piece of land in our village. It is a decent building lot but less than half of a rai. It has a chanote but the chanote cannot be transferred until next June. It appears that after the chanote was first issued the land could no be sold for ten years. She is not concerned about it at all. There are many restrictions and complications.

[quiksilva]

They most certainly do have squatters rights here. Ask that guy who owns all the massage parlours (whats his name? Errr - dodgy moustache..) anyway he had to bring the Army in to bulldoze those shops on Sukhumvit Soi 10 a few years back because they weren't paying rent.

I don't know all the ins and outs though but I remember that the courts came down on him like a ton of bricks.

Edited January 11, 2007 by quiksilva

[bkkmadness]

They most certainly do have squatters rights here. Ask that guy who owns all the massage parlours (whats his name? Errr - dodgy moustache..) anyway he had to bring the Army in to bulldoze those shops on Sukhumvit Soi 10 a few years back because they weren't paying rent.

I don't know all the ins and outs though but I remember that the courts came down on him like a ton of bricks.

If I remember right Chuvit and everyone else involved got away with that, except for one minor player who got a small sentence and probably a big payday for being the scapegoat. Could be wrong, but the as I recall the ton of bricks conveniently missed him.

[pumpuiman]

I have a Thai friend with land in Kao Yai. He makes frequent trips just to make sure no squatters lay claim.

[quiksilva]

They most certainly do have squatters rights here. Ask that guy who owns all the massage parlours (whats his name? Errr - dodgy moustache..) anyway he had to bring the Army in to bulldoze those shops on Sukhumvit Soi 10 a few years back because they weren't paying rent.

I don't know all the ins and outs though but I remember that the courts came down on him like a ton of bricks.

If I remember right Chuvit and everyone else involved got away with that, except for one minor player who got a small sentence and probably a big payday for being the scapegoat. Could be wrong, but the as I recall the ton of bricks conveniently missed him.

sorry yes you are right, as with any law here, if you have influence you dont need to worry about it.

[Heng]

All squatter's rights do is delay (sometimes a few months, sometimes decades) the inevitable: the owner of the land in question is the the person whose name is on the chanote.

If you have squatter's, the best route is talk them off your property. Be firm but polite. Maybe help them out by hiring a 10 wheeled truck and give them some cardboard boxes to move their stuff. If you have some vacant property somewhere else that needs occupancy... ask them to move there. It's done all the time (I have a friend and some relatives who have been doing just that, moving squatters out of the Soi Sua Yai area, Ratchaphisek Soi 36 to make way for dorms and apartments).... the Chatuchak or Soi 10 type heavy handed clearing is by no means the norm.

[lingling]

All squatter's rights do is delay (sometimes a few months, sometimes decades) the inevitable: the owner of the land in question is the the person whose name is on the chanote.

Supposedly there is a law that makes it possible for squatters to claim ownership if they have lived on the land for more than five years and the owner has not done anything with the land since acquiring it. I don't remember the exact details, but maybe you know more about it...?

the Chatuchak or Soi 10 type heavy handed clearing is by no means the norm.

Slum fires is another popular eviction method. They tend to coincide with large construction projects on the same plots.

[Nawtilus]

I heard it was 30 years without being noticed or bothered or questioned b the landowner, then you can have it transfered to your name.

There was an article in the paper recently about a lady who did this and sold the land to the neighbouring temple, then the owners came out of the woodworks and wanted it back.

I could be wrong on the 30 years, but it was much longer than 5.

[Heng]

All squatter's rights do is delay (sometimes a few months, sometimes decades) the inevitable: the owner of the land in question is the the person whose name is on the chanote.

Supposedly there is a law that makes it possible for squatters to claim ownership if they have lived on the land for more than five years and the owner has not done anything with the land since acquiring it. I don't remember the exact details, but maybe you know more about it...?

the Chatuchak or Soi 10 type heavy handed clearing is by no means the norm.

Slum fires is another popular eviction method. They tend to coincide with large construction projects on the same plots.

A few fires a year is hardly popular. Compared to the numbers of squatters that need to be moved all the time, fire is definitely NOT the preferred method.

As for the squatter law, I recall it's 10 years, but have yet to be challenged for anything personally so don't know the exact letter of the law here. Might try asking Samran or one of the other forum legal eagles. As for 'not doing anything with your property' it's fairly easy to keep your property rights current. Get the land dept. to come out and measure your land, dig up/verify the markers periodically (once every ten years; and yes you have to sign off on it each time so it's ON record) and you're pretty much in the clear. Yeah, it's less convenient for those with hundreds of properties all over the country to manage, but if you're talking just a few or even several lots in a concentrated area, it's doable by yourself. Either way, you don't have to be present yourself, you can send a representative. Another way to keep current is to have your squatters sign a lease (just put down something like 500 Baht a month in the contract).

[bina]

there is land that is deeded and land that is gov't community land that u can claim for use but not ownership; this doesnt included rice land which is also not deeded but used....

usage meaning anyone that can prove that he/she has been farming/living on that plot for x amount of time etc.......

we actually went and bought the land/agric. laws book in thai from the book store near the main police headquarters in bangkok; anon has been plowing thru it;

it is very specific about the different types of land and zoning (agriculture, building, village comminityetc) and where and what u can do

this being because land that his father 'gave' us a plot of rice land to build on, near a stream, across from the family property which is chanote, and anon wants to put a house there but the land is actually community land so there is a whole process by which he can build a house but if the gov't (changwat/amphur whatever) want or need the land, the house has to go...

its something like the 99 yr lease that we have in israel for large amounts of land that is not deeded, but farmed.... not sure if the states have the equivalent type thing...

the book is not with me to find the page numbers, but the laws were very specific, including land used/farmed before and after certain years, used by grandparents, etc...

this is for villages we did not look for info for housing in large cities....

[solo siam]

It can't be community land and chanote.

Chanote is legal entitlement to the land, i.e ownership. whoever owns the Chanote, owns the land. Perhaps you mean one of the squatters rights things, where you pay 5 baht for the tax on the farming of the land, I think its called Tor Bor Tor or something.

[old wanderer]

the Sor Bor Kor. These are true title deeds, accurately surveyed and pegged (like a Chanott). They can be mortgaged and developed. But the big but is they cannot be leased, sold or transferred.

I found this to be the most fasinating types of title. At first I questioned if you cannot lease, sell, or transfer it then of what value is it? Turns out the only way this land moves is by inheritance. (Sort of neat).

I wish some land I gave to some of my children for the future had this kind of title. As it was all the land was sold within a year and the money went into fast cars, parties, and fun things, and a few years later they were back needing more money. (Good luck. I told them). Told them I was broke, and needed them to support me....1 daughter has never bother to see me since.

[Lomsak]

We have a Farmer living on our land, and looking after it while we are out of the Kingdom.

Our Attorney has told us that he will have "squatters rights" if he stays on the land for over 4 years.

It is recommended that we draw up a legalcontract that the farmer signs, to absolve him of any future rights or claims.

The cost quoted is around 2,000 Baht ( cos he is a good legal brain)

[PattayaParent]

I heard it was 30 years without being noticed or bothered or questioned b the landowner, then you can have it transfered to your name.

There was an article in the paper recently about a lady who did this and sold the land to the neighbouring temple, then the owners came out of the woodworks and wanted it back.

I could be wrong on the 30 years, but it was much longer than 5.

I'd heard that it's 10 years and it should be government land, not owned by a private individual.

[Ave88]

Does anyone have knowledge or information regarding Squatters' Rights in Thailand?

Thanx in advance...

Are you planning to squat??? JEEZE foreigner's now planning to squat in a 3rd world country, go home.

Hope not, some foreigners who are here are so embarrasing, we are guest's.

[Heng]

Some are squatting because of miscommunication, being tricked/defrauded, and some are indeed doing the wishful thinking type of squatting (hoping the owner doesn't show up).

A common scenario is the farang has purchased in his/her partner's name and the partner uses that land/house as collateral on a non-bank loan without their partner's knowledge. Property is transferred without the farang's knowledge. This is sometimes quick or sometimes years later when the debtor in question finally defaults or willingly transfers the property to clear their debt. All of a sudden the farang, who has been living blissfully on property for all this time -often well after breaking up with said partner after coming to some financial arrangement- (I've even seen some cases where they have "bought" the same house twice... the second time a smaller payoff to the partner) is a squatter. When the owners finally show up, their only options often are: have a heart attack/stroke, sign a rental agreement, or settle for a small fee (sometimes generous) for moving out.

Edited February 16, 2009 by Heng

[Vato]

adverse possesion - immoveable property 14 years, moveable property 2 years.

but it boils down to the name of the person who pays the property tax every year...

[dave9988]

there is property tax in thailand?

[Heng]

Yes there is. Just not the actively collected annual type as in the US for instance.

Here we'll get tax bills every 3-4 years (but yes the tax is yearly). But it's often as little as several hundred Baht and sometimes as much as a few thousand Baht for even 10-30+ rai area properties. And no, they don't take notice of who shows up to pay the bill... nor does it give the payee any rights to use the property.

[chiangmaibruce]

Just read this thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Years-Land-B...im-t252225.html

and now this one. Still no definitive answer to the OP's question though.

Has anyone seen in writing what the law actually is? Do you have the name of the law and section/clause number?

How many years must they (squatters) be on the property before they can make a claim?

Does it matter if it is government land or private land?

Do squatters rights apply to all or only some forms of land title?

Perhaps one of the legal people like Isaan Lawyers knows the story?

Cheers