Trump expected to pressure China's Xi to rein in North Korea: officials

[rooster59]

Trump expected to pressure China's Xi to rein in North Korea: officials

By Steve Holland

 

U.S. President Donald Trump speaks to the Heritage Foundation’s President’s Club Meeting in Washington, U.S., October 17, 2017. REUTERS/Joshua Roberts

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump is expected to pressure China's president when they meet next month in Beijing to do more to rein in North Korea out of a belief that Xi Jinping's consolidation of power should give him more authority to do so.

 

Trump leaves Nov. 3 on a trip that will take him to Japan, South Korea, China, Vietnam and the Philippines. It will be his first tour of Asia since taking power in January and one with a major priority: Preventing the standoff with North Korea from spiraling out of control.

 

Xi is immersed in a Communist Party Congress expected to culminate in him consolidating his control and potentially retaining power beyond 2022, when the next congress takes place.

 

Trump believes that Xi should have even more leverage to work on the North Korea problem.

 

“The president’s view is you have even less of an excuse now,” said one official. “He’s not going to step lightly.”

 

Trump wants to gain some serious cooperation from China to persuade Pyongyang to either change its mind or help deprive it of so much resources that it has no choice but to alter its behavior, the official said.

 

Trump has heaped praise on Xi in recent weeks in hopes of gaining Chinese cooperation and has held back from major punitive trade measures.

In an interview with Fox Business Network's Maria Bartiromo, Trump said he wants to "keep things very, very low key" with Xi until the Chinese leader emerges from the party congress.

 

"I believe he's got the power to do something very significant with respect to North Korea. We'll see what happens. Now with that being said, we're prepared for anything. We are so prepared, like you wouldn’t believe," Trump said in the interview, to air on Sunday.

 

Trump has traded bitter insults with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, using his speech at the United Nations General Assembly last month to dismiss Kim as a "rocket man" on a suicide mission for his repeated nuclear tests and ballistic missile launches. He said if threatened, the United States would "totally destroy" North Korea.

 

Kim in recent weeks said the United States would face an "unimaginable strike" from North Korea if provoked.

 

CIA chief Mike Pompeo said on Thursday that North Korea could be only “months” away from gaining the ability to hit the United States with nuclear weapons.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-10-21

[Get Real]

Another impossible dream made up by the ever so unaware madman called Trump.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[tonbridgebrit]

Okay, so Donald Trump is going to put pressure on China's Xi, to rein in North Korea. Now, what can Donald Trump actually say ?

Obviously, telling China "look, we (the USA) will invade you, if you refuse to invade North Korea" is not going to happen.


So, what cards has Washington got to play ?  Telling China "we're not going to let anymore of your people into America" is going to be pointless. Why would Beijing be scared if America refuses to let anymore Chinese into America ?



Now, what might make Beijing take notice, is if, if Washington slaps 30% tax on the Chinese goods entering into America. Yes, this might frighten Beijing. This might force Beijing to take serious action against North Korea Kim. What else can Washington do ?

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Okay, so Donald Trump is going to put pressure on China's Xi, to rein in North Korea. Now, what can Donald Trump actually say ?

Obviously, telling China "look, we (the USA) will invade you, if you refuse to invade North Korea" is not going to happen.


So, what cards has Washington got to play ?  Telling China "we're not going to let anymore of your people into America" is going to be pointless. Why would Beijing be scared if America refuses to let anymore Chinese into America ?



Now, what might make Beijing take notice, is if, if Washington slaps 30% tax on the Chinese goods entering into America. Yes, this might frighten Beijing. This might force Beijing to take serious action against North Korea Kim. What else can Washington do ?

What a rant...wow.

[Krataiboy]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

What a rant...wow.

Not a rant. A sensible analysis of the corner Trump has painted himself into.

[craigt3365]

13 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Not a rant. A sensible analysis of the corner Trump has painted himself into.

Putting forward ridiculous actions, that will never ever be considered, is a bit of a rant.  Trump is not the US government.  Plenty of actions for the US to take.  Look how far China has already come.  They've done a lot to reign in NK.  Whom they don't really like anyway.  A few more items to secure and NK will really be feeling the pain.

 

Trump's not painted himself into a corner.  Not yet anyway.  But it is all up to China.  Except Russia, the rest of the world has done a pretty good job isolating NK.  The rest is up to China.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/why-china-isnt-ready-to-put-pressure-on-north-korea

Quote

But, in March, Shen Zhihua, one of China’s best-known experts on the Korean War, said, in a speech, “We must see clearly that China and North Korea are no longer brothers-in-arms, and in the short term there’s no possibility of an improvement in Chinese-North Korean relations.” The speech circulated widely, without much in the way of official censorship—a sign, to many Chinese analysts, that some of the country’s leaders agree.

 

[dunroaming]

8 hours ago, rooster59 said:

U.S. President Donald Trump is expected to pressure China's president when they meet next month in Beijing to do more to rein in North Korea out of a belief that Xi Jinping's consolidation of power should give him more authority to do so.

Xi Jinping's consolidation of power just re-affirms that at the moment he is probably the most powerful leader in the world.  Why on earth would he take any notice of a buffoon like Trump?

[tonbridgebrit]

6 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Putting forward ridiculous actions, that will never ever be considered, is a bit of a rant.  Trump is not the US government.  Plenty of actions for the US to take.  Look how far China has already come.  They've done a lot to reign in NK.  Whom they don't really like anyway.  A few more items to secure and NK will really be feeling the pain.

 

Trump's not painted himself into a corner.  Not yet anyway.  But it is all up to China.  Except Russia, the rest of the world has done a pretty good job isolating NK.  The rest is up to China.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/why-china-isnt-ready-to-put-pressure-on-north-korea

 

Craigt, what is actually happening ?

You're saying that China has done a lot to rein in North Korea ? Well, Kim can detonate another nuke next week, and he can fire a couple more missiles over Japan, and there's nothing anybody can do about this.


Okay, what's going on ? For a start, Beijing's incentive to take action against Kim is not that great. Kim's nukes are aimed at Japan and South Korea, not at Beijing.
What else ? See, Beijing knows that some (but not all) of the people in Washington are part of the "anti-China brigade". These people, they're the ones who claim that China is a danger and threat to world peace, they claim that China is trying to take over the South China Sea. They also claim that China is a bully, getting involved in border disputes with many of it's neighbours. And also, the absurd claim that China is building up it's army, and that China has intent to use this army. I myself regard all this as childish but dangerous demonising of China.

Now then, Beijing knows that the anti-China brigade in Washington is actually in a powerful position, they might actually be able to influence Donald Trump. And here's the point, why would Beijing work hand-in-hand with Washington, when Washington regards China to be part of an axis of evil ?  This absurd axis of evil is, supposedly, made up of North Korea, Iran, Syria, Russia and China. The absurd theory says that China is part of the problem, and not the solution to the problem.

Why on earth would China do a war against North Korea ? Again, none of Kim's nukes are aimed at China. And Kim is creating a problem for America and it's Far East allies. The problem is far smaller for China. And yes, Beijing is outraged by Washington selling THAAD to Japan and South Korea. Go ahead and say that Beijing is being stupid regarding THAAD in South Korea, but that don't change Beijing being outraged.




So, with all the above talk, why would Beijing rein in Kim ? And here's the point. If Washington slaps 30% tax on the Chinese goods entering America, well, this will hurt China. And through pain, Beijing might actually say to Washington "yes, we will rein in Kim of North Korea".

Edited October 21, 2017 by tonbridgebrit

[dunroaming]

10 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

So, with all the above talk, why would Beijing rein in Kim ? And here's the point. If Washington slaps 30% tax on the Chinese goods entering America, well, this will hurt China. And through pain, Beijing might actually say to Washington "yes, we will rein in Kim of North Korea".

Interesting point but I can't see that happening any time soon. If Trump slaps a 30% tax on Chinese goods then that would provoke a considerable price rise on an enormous amount of goods in the USA when people are struggling to get by. I think that Beijing sees Trump as a fool and a White House in chaos.  

[boomerangutang]

Except Trump is fast becoming a punchline for jokes - around the world.  He's like the drunkard uncle who you're family is obliged to invite to Thanksgiving dinner - even thou he eats too much, tips beer bottles over, and always wants the little girls to sit on his lap for several minutes.

 

Xi will smile and say something like, "Ok, Mr. Trump.  We'll take your ideas under advisement."  ....and then go off and play mah jong, or visit a mistress, or whatever he normally does each day.

[Thakkar]

http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/russiachina-can-settle-n-korea-lavrov/news-story/4d387b3744247d13b98e757568deff78

 

Russia-China can settle N Korea: Lavrov

October 20, 20179:34pm

Russia has called for support for a plan drawn up by Moscow and Beijing to address the North Korean crisis through diplomatic means.

 

 

- - -

Step 1: Get Trump to hire a friend of Russia as Sec. of State

 

Step 2: Get Trump to decimate the State Dept, starving it of funds and personnel

 

Step 3: Get Trump to utter bombastic nonsense till the rest of the world begs you to be quiet and stay out of NK issue

 

Step 4: Get Trump to undermine his own Sec of State if he tries anything constructive and peaceful.

 

Step 5: completely edge out the US from NK dialogue, reducing its role to country that simply complies with a China/Russia/NK agreed framework.

 

Step 6: Get Trump to sell that compliance to the American people.

 

Rinse and repeat for other policies to undermine US role in world affairs.

 

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, Thakkar said:

http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/russiachina-can-settle-n-korea-lavrov/news-story/4d387b3744247d13b98e757568deff78

 

Russia-China can settle N Korea: Lavrov

October 20, 20179:34pm

Russia has called for support for a plan drawn up by Moscow and Beijing to address the North Korean crisis through diplomatic means.

 

 

- - -

Step 1: Get Trump to hire a friend of Russia as Sec. of State

 

Step 2: Get Trump to decimate the State Dept, starving it of funds and personnel

 

Step 3: Get Trump to utter bombastic nonsense till the rest of the world begs you to be quiet and stay out of NK issue

 

Step 4: Get Trump to undermine his own Sec of State if he tries anything constructive and peaceful.

 

Step 5: completely edge out the US from NK dialogue, reducing its role to country that simply complies with a China/Russia/NK agreed framework.

 

Step 6: Get Trump to sell that compliance to the American people.

 

Rinse and repeat for other policies to undermine US role in world affairs.

 

Seems to be working to plan so far 

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Thakkar said:

http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/russiachina-can-settle-n-korea-lavrov/news-story/4d387b3744247d13b98e757568deff78

 

Russia-China can settle N Korea: Lavrov

October 20, 20179:34pm

Russia has called for support for a plan drawn up by Moscow and Beijing to address the North Korean crisis through diplomatic means.

 

 

- - -

Step 1: Get Trump to hire a friend of Russia as Sec. of State

 

Step 2: Get Trump to decimate the State Dept, starving it of funds and personnel

 

Step 3: Get Trump to utter bombastic nonsense till the rest of the world begs you to be quiet and stay out of NK issue

 

Step 4: Get Trump to undermine his own Sec of State if he tries anything constructive and peaceful.

 

Step 5: completely edge out the US from NK dialogue, reducing its role to country that simply complies with a China/Russia/NK agreed framework.

 

Step 6: Get Trump to sell that compliance to the American people.

 

Rinse and repeat for other policies to undermine US role in world affairs.

 

LOL. Made my day.

[Morch]

On 10/21/2017 at 5:49 PM, tonbridgebrit said:

Craigt, what is actually happening ?

You're saying that China has done a lot to rein in North Korea ? Well, Kim can detonate another nuke next week, and he can fire a couple more missiles over Japan, and there's nothing anybody can do about this.


Okay, what's going on ? For a start, Beijing's incentive to take action against Kim is not that great. Kim's nukes are aimed at Japan and South Korea, not at Beijing.
What else ? See, Beijing knows that some (but not all) of the people in Washington are part of the "anti-China brigade". These people, they're the ones who claim that China is a danger and threat to world peace, they claim that China is trying to take over the South China Sea. They also claim that China is a bully, getting involved in border disputes with many of it's neighbours. And also, the absurd claim that China is building up it's army, and that China has intent to use this army. I myself regard all this as childish but dangerous demonising of China.

Now then, Beijing knows that the anti-China brigade in Washington is actually in a powerful position, they might actually be able to influence Donald Trump. And here's the point, why would Beijing work hand-in-hand with Washington, when Washington regards China to be part of an axis of evil ?  This absurd axis of evil is, supposedly, made up of North Korea, Iran, Syria, Russia and China. The absurd theory says that China is part of the problem, and not the solution to the problem.

Why on earth would China do a war against North Korea ? Again, none of Kim's nukes are aimed at China. And Kim is creating a problem for America and it's Far East allies. The problem is far smaller for China. And yes, Beijing is outraged by Washington selling THAAD to Japan and South Korea. Go ahead and say that Beijing is being stupid regarding THAAD in South Korea, but that don't change Beijing being outraged.




So, with all the above talk, why would Beijing rein in Kim ? And here's the point. If Washington slaps 30% tax on the Chinese goods entering America, well, this will hurt China. And through pain, Beijing might actually say to Washington "yes, we will rein in Kim of North Korea".

 

What's going on is that you keep posting repetitive and ridiculous propaganda posts, that's what.

 

Most of the nonsense above was addressed on multiple topics.

 

The PRC does have its own motivations to rein Kim, even if these do not fully correspond to the motivations of the USA. There doesn't need to be a full convergence of interests, nor is anyone expecting it. If the PRC had not interest, motivation or incentive to curb Kim's ambitions, it would participate in and support the international sanctions which are already in place.  A nuclear capable Kim, plus reliable delivery systems is not necessarily something the PRC is looking forward to. Same goes for the possibility of a regional nuclear arms race. Same goes for the USA going in guns blazing and either taking over the PRC's semi-client state, or leaving it in ruins right outside the PRC's door.

 

The PRC is trying to take over the South China Sea.

The PRC is/was involved in border disputes with many of its neighbors.

The PRC is building up its armed forces, and is not doing so for show purposes.

 

Whether your regard these as "childish", "dangerous demonizing" or whatever, is irrelevant.

 

You supposed understanding of what "Beijing knows" fails to account for the PRC going along with sanctions on NK, and not providing any concrete offers of military support.

 

Whether or not the PRC militarily intervenes in NK, and whether such a hypothetical intervention will be coordinated with other parties is something which will be decided based mainly on the PRC's interests. But obviously, it is not necessarily the only, or preferred means by which the PRC could further pressure Kim. Rather, it's just another loaded presentation. As for the rest, one could posit the argument that getting rid of Kim and his nuclear threat may also undermine the ongoing USA presence at the PRC's backyard, and obviously make the THAAD deployment irrelevant.

 

[craigt3365]

11 hours ago, Morch said:

 

What's going on is that you keep posting repetitive and ridiculous propaganda posts, that's what.

 

Most of the nonsense above was addressed on multiple topics.

I just ignore most of his posts now.  Same repetitive stuff.  Nothing new.

[Publicus]

On 10/21/2017 at 4:10 PM, dunroaming said:

Xi Jinping's consolidation of power just re-affirms that at the moment he is probably the most powerful leader in the world.  Why on earth would he take any notice of a buffoon like Trump?

Xi Jinping is the most powerful leader in China. That's it. The world remains well beyond his grasp.

 

CCP Boyz in Beijing are struggling and stumbling trying to become a regional power, never mind a global power. China is locked down regionally by wealthy and strong democracies that will not submit to the CCP Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing. And CCP know that before they could become a global power they must first become a regional power.

 

So forget it.

 

PM Shinzo Abe who just won big yesterday in an election speaks of the Democracy Diamond that encases CCP Boyz in their own place. The Democracy Diamond exists from SK/Japan to Hawaii to Australia and on to India back through the nations of the South China Sea that oppose Beijing, and on back up to Japan. CCP Tyrants just aren't going anywhere either regionally or globally. (CCP have to try to extend landward across Asia but others there are jealous of their realm, from Putin and his central Asian states to India, Iran, the ME and the EU.)

 

Trump has China savvy advisers who are hawks against the CCP. The advisers have been shut out of power in Washington since Nixon-Kissinger and the CCP adventure of the long gone happy couple. Now the strongly pro-Taiwan hawks have state power and they are directing Trump. Trump furthermore has his own ideas about how to deal with the CCP Boyz.

 

The Boyz had thought for instance they could buy Trump the way Putin has bought and influenced Trump but the Boyz found out they were wrong. While Trump admires Putin and aspires to be like Putin, Trump hates communists. He hates 'em. It is basically as simple and as direct as that. Add the NK nuclear menace and the fact Trump hates Kim III and his People's Workers Party besides and we see that from before Jan 20th Xi Jinping & Co are getting their arm twisted up their back to the neck. 

 

Xi well knows Trump signed off on examining trade sanctions which his anti-CCP advisers are cooking up for a report due around Thanksgiving. Xi is under the gun so to speak and he's got to produce for Trump or else. The Chinese have always understood person to person relations and that if you tick off somebody against you face to face you won't ever get him back. And that he will hurt you until you go to your grave. And that Trump first and foremost is a gravedigger.

[tonbridgebrit]

On 10/22/2017 at 4:04 PM, Morch said:

 

What's going on is that you keep posting repetitive and ridiculous propaganda posts, that's what.

 

Most of the nonsense above was addressed on multiple topics.

 

The PRC does have its own motivations to rein Kim, even if these do not fully correspond to the motivations of the USA. There doesn't need to be a full convergence of interests, nor is anyone expecting it. If the PRC had not interest, motivation or incentive to curb Kim's ambitions, it would participate in and support the international sanctions which are already in place.  A nuclear capable Kim, plus reliable delivery systems is not necessarily something the PRC is looking forward to. Same goes for the possibility of a regional nuclear arms race. Same goes for the USA going in guns blazing and either taking over the PRC's semi-client state, or leaving it in ruins right outside the PRC's door.

 

The PRC is trying to take over the South China Sea.

The PRC is/was involved in border disputes with many of its neighbors.

The PRC is building up its armed forces, and is not doing so for show purposes.

 

Whether your regard these as "childish", "dangerous demonizing" or whatever, is irrelevant.

 

You supposed understanding of what "Beijing knows" fails to account for the PRC going along with sanctions on NK, and not providing any concrete offers of military support.

 

Whether or not the PRC militarily intervenes in NK, and whether such a hypothetical intervention will be coordinated with other parties is something which will be decided based mainly on the PRC's interests. But obviously, it is not necessarily the only, or preferred means by which the PRC could further pressure Kim. Rather, it's just another loaded presentation. As for the rest, one could posit the argument that getting rid of Kim and his nuclear threat may also undermine the ongoing USA presence at the PRC's backyard, and obviously make the THAAD deployment irrelevant.

 

Morch, what is Trump going to say when he visits China soon ?  Okay, I haven't said on ThaiVisa that Trump is a fool or moron. But, I say this to you. If Trump says to Beijing "look Beijing, you are bad, you are trying to take over the South China Sea, you are trying to take land from the Indians, and you are a danger and threat to world peace", if Trump actually says this, well, I myself will join in with those who reckon that Trump is a fool and a moron.

There's no way Donald Trump is going to say this to Beijing. Trump, he's not actually an idiot.

[craigt3365]

14 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Morch, what is Trump going to say when he visits China soon ?  Okay, I haven't said on ThaiVisa that Trump is a fool or moron. But, I say this to you. If Trump says to Beijing "look Beijing, you are bad, you are trying to take over the South China Sea, you are trying to take land from the Indians, and you are a danger and threat to world peace", if Trump actually says this, well, I myself will join in with those who reckon that Trump is a fool and a moron.

There's no way Donald Trump is going to say this to Beijing. Trump, he's not actually an idiot.

If Trump does say that, he'll only be telling the truth.  what's wrong with that?  Good for him.  I hope he does this.

 

Are you part Chinese?

[Morch]

5 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Morch, what is Trump going to say when he visits China soon ?  Okay, I haven't said on ThaiVisa that Trump is a fool or moron. But, I say this to you. If Trump says to Beijing "look Beijing, you are bad, you are trying to take over the South China Sea, you are trying to take land from the Indians, and you are a danger and threat to world peace", if Trump actually says this, well, I myself will join in with those who reckon that Trump is a fool and a moron.

There's no way Donald Trump is going to say this to Beijing. Trump, he's not actually an idiot.

 

I have no idea what Trump may say. That's pretty much his trademark. What you say or don't say about Trump is irrelevant. Unless you missed it, calling Trump either a fool or a moron isn't exactly groundbreaking stuff. What you may say about something that Trump might say, which he won't say anyway...what are you on about?

 

Back to them points you dodge:

 

The PRC does have a vested interest in reining Kim.

The PRC does collaborate with international efforts to rein Kim.

The PRC does not need to embrace Trump's agenda as motivation to rein Kim.

[Publicus]

 

The big issue at the center of Trump's 12 day East Asia trip next month is to head off Trump's strong desire to visit the DMZ while he's in SK to include addressing the national legislature. Trump had said he wants to hit the DMZ after speaking to the SK National Assembly (they don't have a parliament-style government due to the security issues).

 

Everybody is against Trump popping up at the DMZ with binoculars. Strong opposition includes some of Trump's hawk China advisers in the WH, Xi Jinping, SK Pres Moon, PM Shinzo Abe, Asean leaders and right across the globe to leaders of Nato countries. The fear is of course that Trump standing at the DMZ will say madman things that will effectively set in motion a hard to reverse military "solution."  

 

“It’s important for U.S. presidents to show America’s resolve by going to the DMZ and seeing the division first hand and how close the two sides are in proximity,” Duyeon Kim, a visiting senior fellow at the Seoul-based Korean Peninsula Future Forum, said in an email.“But the danger and concern is Trump’s tendency to go off script and make provocative and bombastic comments. The DMZ is certainly not the place to be in to aggravate the North,” she added.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-north-koreas-dmz-visit-escalation-personal-safety-2017-10

 

 

There are also very real personal security factors given the commotion going on throughout the year. No one puts it past Kim to order up some lunatic display that would make his point even to risk the severe consequences Kim would expect never to occur. Photos were issued by Pyongyang after Tillerson's DMZ visit that US-SK intelligence said were taken from 50 feet away. When Potus Clinton ventured unexpectedly onto the Bridge of No Return he was several strides away from shaking hands with NK guards.

 

As to Trump and Xi meeting in Beijing, most everyone expects them to check the boxes on their Mara-Lago Hundred Day Agreement on economics and trade. Thingys such as Xi confirming his reversal on the ban of importing US beef, Trump agreeing to continue Beijing's huge number one import from the US of soybeans which had been in doubt,  China's big bucks import of aircraft parts and equipment; the big numbers import of GM and Ford passenger cars, industrial capital machinery, copper, plastics, pulpwood paper and so on that CCP needs so much to maintain some measure of economic growth against the sharp slowdown of recent years.

 

 

At the DMZ

 

U.S. 8th Army in Korea captain of infantry at the DMZ with South Korea army captain R and lieutenant center points at North Korean soldiers and emplacements. SK military officers need to be competent in the English language. Capt. Jordan wears his "battle rattle" equipment. The SK officers are also armed at all times. Seen are the central control tower and the flags of USA, UN, SK.

 

 

But no president has ever taken such a vocally hostile line towards North Korea as Trump has. Trump has threatened to "totally destroy" the country with "fire and fury," far more colorful statements than any of his predecessors dared.

According to Daniel Russel, assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific affairs under President Barack Obama, Trump's heated rhetoric could take on a new meaning in the DMZ.

“The DMZ functions as a kind of amplifier," Russel told the Washington Post. “The message takes on a more martial and ominous tone when it comes out of a military command post on North Korea’s doorstep.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-north-koreas-dmz-visit-escalation-personal-safety-2017-10

 

 

Thaad is fully operational in South Korea

USAF General John Hyten commander of Strategic Command, Army General Vincent Brooks supreme allied commander UN Forces in Korea, Admiral Harry Harris Jr. military commander in chief U.S. forces Pacific-East Asia inspect fully operational U.S. Thaad missile site in South Korea.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Publicus
Technical

[zydeco]

Nobody is going to be able to pressure Xi any more than they could Mao. Xi has just been made Dictator For Life in China.  All those fools, the Bushies, Clinton, and Obama funded and built this monster, China.  All based on a cockamamie neocon theory that free trade going in one direction would result in democracy, freedom, liberty, and free ice cream throughout China. How utterly stupid.

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed. 

[tonbridgebrit]

On 10/26/2017 at 12:19 AM, Publicus said:

 

The big issue at the center of Trump's 12 day East Asia trip next month is to head off Trump's strong desire to visit the DMZ while he's in SK to include addressing the national legislature. Trump had said he wants to hit the DMZ after speaking to the SK National Assembly (they don't have a parliament-style government due to the security issues).

 

Everybody is against Trump popping up at the DMZ with binoculars. Strong opposition includes some of Trump's hawk China advisers in the WH, Xi Jinping, SK Pres Moon, PM Shinzo Abe, Asean leaders and right across the globe to leaders of Nato countries. The fear is of course that Trump standing at the DMZ will say madman things that will effectively set in motion a hard to reverse military "solution."  

 

“It’s important for U.S. presidents to show America’s resolve by going to the DMZ and seeing the division first hand and how close the two sides are in proximity,” Duyeon Kim, a visiting senior fellow at the Seoul-based Korean Peninsula Future Forum, said in an email.“But the danger and concern is Trump’s tendency to go off script and make provocative and bombastic comments. The DMZ is certainly not the place to be in to aggravate the North,” she added.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-north-koreas-dmz-visit-escalation-personal-safety-2017-10

 

 

There are also very real personal security factors given the commotion going on throughout the year. No one puts it past Kim to order up some lunatic display that would make his point even to risk the severe consequences Kim would expect never to occur. Photos were issued by Pyongyang after Tillerson's DMZ visit that US-SK intelligence said were taken from 50 feet away. When Potus Clinton ventured unexpectedly onto the Bridge of No Return he was several strides away from shaking hands with NK guards.

 

Look, let's say Trump does turn up at the DMZ. And Trump does actually get a loudspeaker, and switches it on, and facing North Korea, Trump shouts out "North Korea, you are a bunch of _______".

Let's say Trump actually does that. I do think most people will reckon that this would be hilarious. I myself would be laughing. And I'm not going to be laughing at Donald Trump, I'ill be laughing at North Korea.

I'm pretty sure Trump will actually gain in popularity if he does do this.

[Thakkar]

21 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Look, let's say Trump does turn up at the DMZ. And Trump does actually get a loudspeaker, and switches it on, and facing North Korea, Trump shouts out "North Korea, you are a bunch of _______".

Let's say Trump actually does that. I do think most people will reckon that this would be hilarious. I myself would be laughing. And I'm not going to be laughing at Donald Trump, I'ill be laughing at North Korea.

I'm pretty sure Trump will actually gain in popularity if he does do this.

I don’t doubt that it would make him more popular (with his base). If Trump let off a fart on live TV, it would make him more popular with his base.

 

But other than that, what would such a display achieve militarily or diplomatically?

[tonbridgebrit]

32 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

I don’t doubt that it would make him more popular (with his base). If Trump let off a fart on live TV, it would make him more popular with his base.

 

But other than that, what would such a display achieve militarily or diplomatically?

It will make Donald Trump more popular among his base, yes. But I think there's going to be people who don't normally support him will also like this. People will reckon that this is brilliantly funny.


What will this achieve militarily ? Nothing. But then again, sending an aircraft carrier towards North Korea, flying more US combat jets above South Korea's skies, are also having zero impact on stopping Kim detonating more nukes.

What about diplomatically ? Well, South Korea and Japan must work with Washington, they're certainly not going to tell Washington to 'reduce the military presence' if Trump actually does this stunt. South Korea and Japan need Washington more than Washington needs them. So, what difference does it make if they are going to be a bit annoyed by Trump doing this stunt ? I think no difference.
Is Beijing going to be annoyed ? Surely, Washington isn't going to care if Beijing gets annoyed. I mean, Beijing is angry about THAAD being in South Korea and Japan. Does that have any impact on Washington exporting THAAD to South Korea and Japan ? Surely, no ? 

[Publicus]

 

Kim stopped ranting about dropping some missiles off the waters of Guam after the 7th Fleet with the SK Navy did some exercises on both sides of the Korean peninsula. Kim has gone quiet as a church mouse about it.

 

Japan has the powerful and penetrating Thaad radars only but it is looking very seriously at adding the interceptor batteries to make a complete package of it. Thaad on Guam and in SK and with Thaad radars in Japan tell us the temperature of Xi Jinping's morning tea each day. Word on Kim is that he likes his tea nuclear hot.

 

Russia has taken now to hollering while flapping their arms that the Thaad deployments all over the place cover completely all their ICBM trajectories to the USA. Thaad already in Romania makes Russian headaches into migraines. 

 

All of it could go quickly to the hounds of hell if President Strangelove at the DMZ suddenly went OTT launch happy. Or started scaling a fence to get his meeting with Kim. So even if Trump up and orders a visit while he is in Seoul the secret service might well drive him south instead because of personal security concerns.  Secret service will of course obey their commander in chief who they'd be certain said take him to the DMV. 

[Publicus]

On 10/26/2017 at 8:53 AM, zydeco said:

Nobody is going to be able to pressure Xi any more than they could Mao. Xi has just been made Dictator For Life in China.  All those fools, the Bushies, Clinton, and Obama funded and built this monster, China.  All based on a cockamamie neocon theory that free trade going in one direction would result in democracy, freedom, liberty, and free ice cream throughout China. How utterly stupid.

 

Chinese people could learn to like ice cream whether it's free or otherwise.

 

It's their tyrant leaders who won't allow the toppings.

 

Taiwan Chinese consume heaps of it. Sells big in Hong Kong too. The problem is Xi Jinping who stays happy crunching down rice cakes. 

[Thakkar]

23 minutes ago, Publicus said:

 

Chinese people could learn to like ice cream whether it's free or otherwise.

 

It's their tyrant leaders who won't allow the toppings.

 

Taiwan Chinese consume heaps of it. Sells big in Hong Kong too. The problem is Xi Jinping who stays happy crunching down rice cakes. 

Meanwhile the decadent leader of the western world gobbles down two cherry pies and two scoops of ice cream topped off with the most beautiful chocolate cake you’ve ever seen.

 

NK’s Kim is probably enjoying his daily garlic fried rice with crabmeat washed down with authentic warm Japanese sake.

 

Wait...are we doing food analogies or just listing our favorite foods?

 

Oh, look! Donuts, hmm.