Is Thailand Value for money

[rooster59]

Militants attack Egypt police, dozens killed - sources

By Ahmed Mohamed Hassan and Ahmed Tolba

 

CAIRO (Reuters) - Egypt's security forces suffered one of their heaviest attacks after militants firing rockets and detonating explosives hit a police operation on Friday in the western desert, authorities and security sources said on Saturday.

 

Three security sources said at least 52 police officers and conscripts had been killed in gun battles that erupted in the remote desert, but Egyptian authorities said only 16 men had died when their patrol came under attack.

 

Egyptian authorities on Saturday said two police operations were moving in on a suspected militant hideout on Friday when one of the patrols came under fire from heavy weapons in a remote area around 135 km southwest of Cairo.

 

The interior ministry said 16 police were killed in that part of the operation, and 13 more were wounded. At least 15 militants were also killed in the gun fight. The statement did not give details on any casualties in the other police patrol.

 

"As soon as the first mission approached the location of the terrorist elements, they sensed the arrival of the forces and targeted them using heavy weapons from all directions," the interior ministry said in a statement.

 

One security source said the convoy was attacked from higher ground by militants firing rocket-propelled grenades and detonating explosive devices on the ground.

 

Security has been a key point for President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, a former military commander who presents himself as a bulwark against terrorism after leading the ouster of president Mohamed Mursi of the Muslim Brotherhood in 2013. Sisi was elected on a landslide a year later.

 

Though he has yet to declare his intentions, Sisi is widely expected to run for re-election in April next year with little opposition. But critics say his popularity has been dimmed because of security and economic austerity policies.

 

No group made any claim or statement about Friday's operation not far from the capital. But most of the fighting so far between militants and security forces has been in northern Sinai, where an Islamic State affiliate operates.

 

Security sources earlier said the police had been hunting hideout of the Hasm Movement, an Islamist militant group blamed for attacks on judges and police around the capital.

 

That group has in the past only carried out mostly small operations since it emerged last year. Egyptian authorities say it is the armed militant wing of the Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist group it outlawed in 2013. Most of its leadership has been jailed in a crackdown under Sisi.

 

Since Sisi came to power, hundreds of troops and police have been killed in often sophisticated attacks by militants in the northern Sinai region, where Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis group pledged allegiance to Islamic State in 2014.

 

Last Sunday, at least 24 militants and six soldiers were killed in attacks on military outposts in North Sinai, when more than 100 militants repeatedly attacked security outposts south of the border town of Sheikh Zuweid.

 

Attacks have mostly hit police and armed forces, but militants have also extended their campaign outside the Sinai, targeting Egypt's Christians with bomb attacks on churches in Cairo and other cities.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-10-22

[retarius]

You really have to wonder about Egypt. There was a military coup against a fairly elected leader. The US laws forbid the country giving military aid to a country after a coup, so they simply refused to call it a coup, preferring the term 'leadership change". You need to contrast this with the negative comments about Thailand's coup.

Are the people fighting really 'militants' when they are fighting against an illegitimate government who stole power from a democratically elected leader (then sentenced him to death). Perhaps they should be called 'freedom fighters' to prevent cognitive dissonance.

I don't approve of their actions of course, but perhaps we could ditch the hypocrisy.

[observer90210]

Another country with a great historic and cultural background that is destroying it's main ressource that is tourism...as such madness will make any sane person flee from visiting Egypt and spending money out there....

[Morch]

1 hour ago, retarius said:

You really have to wonder about Egypt. There was a military coup against a fairly elected leader. The US laws forbid the country giving military aid to a country after a coup, so they simply refused to call it a coup, preferring the term 'leadership change". You need to contrast this with the negative comments about Thailand's coup.

Are the people fighting really 'militants' when they are fighting against an illegitimate government who stole power from a democratically elected leader (then sentenced him to death). Perhaps they should be called 'freedom fighters' to prevent cognitive dissonance.

I don't approve of their actions of course, but perhaps we could ditch the hypocrisy.

 

There was a temporary ban on arms sales and other aid provided by the USA. There was also quite a bit of criticism, if not meeting the level required by some posters. It's an open question how long Egypt's "democracy" would have survived under a Muslim Brotherhood led government, or how democratic were some of its intended policies.

 

Try as you might, I don't think you could demonstrate that said militants are fighting for democracy (or at least not democracy as it is understood in the West).

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

There was a temporary ban on arms sales and other aid provided by the USA. There was also quite a bit of criticism, if not meeting the level required by some posters. It's an open question how long Egypt's "democracy" would have survived under a Muslim Brotherhood led government, or how democratic were some of its intended policies.

 

Try as you might, I don't think you could demonstrate that said militants are fighting for democracy (or at least not democracy as it is understood in the West).

What is not much of an open question is how the deep state in Egypt worked to undermine the Morsi government well before the coup.

[Morch]

5 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

What is not much of an open question is how the deep state in Egypt worked to undermine the Morsi government well before the coup.

 

[ilostmypassword]

6 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

What is not much of an open question is how the deep state in Egypt worked to undermine the Morsi government well before the coup.

 

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

I understand the Pavlovian reaction to mention of the deep state. The Alt-right has ludicrously applied it to the USA and opposition to Trump. But, in fact, in countries like Egypt, where the armed forces and intelligence services  also run major and basic sectors of the economy, it does apply.

Anyone who cares to do the lightest bit of googling will find this article from that craziest and most radical of sources, the Wall Street Journal

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324425204578601700051224658

And other assorted crazies like the New York Times, PRI, PBS, Brookings, the Washington Post and the Maoists at Foreign Policy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/11/world/middleeast/improvements-in-egypt-suggest-a-campaign-that-undermined-morsi.html

https://www.pri.org/collections/deep-state-egypts-rising-military-and-fading-hope-democracy

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-deep-state-how-egypts-shadow-state-won-out/

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/in-egypt-deep-state-vs-brotherhoodization/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/03/07/what-an-actual-deep-state-looks-like/?utm_term=.3b4e596aeda2

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/02/24/the-deep-state-comes-to-america/

 

[Morch]

@ilostmypassword

 

Derail away.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

@ilostmypassword

 

Derail away.

It there was a derailment. the following was part of it and previous to my comments:

"It's an open question how long Egypt's "democracy" would have survived under a Muslim Brotherhood led government, or how democratic were some of its intended policies."

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

It there was a derailment. the following was part of it and previous to my comments:

"It's an open question how long Egypt's "democracy" would have survived under a Muslim Brotherhood led government, or how democratic were some of its intended policies."

 

Yawn.

 

I thought my original post conveyed clearly enough that I considered the post responded to as a not quite accurate and biased presentation. My comment was not a contradiction of Egypt's democracy being less than perfect or a denial of undemocratic efforts to undermine Morsi. It simply addressed that no matter how much it will be pushed, Morsi or the Muslim Brotherhood do not quite equate with or represent democracy.

 

The struggle in Egypt is not exactly between democracy loving freedom fighters and an evil empire army. Somewhat more complex than that, to put it mildly.

 

The topic is about Egyptian security forces blundering (or getting betrayed) and getting themselves killed.

[ilostmypassword]

24 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Yawn.

 

I thought my original post conveyed clearly enough that I considered the post responded to as a not quite accurate and biased presentation. My comment was not a contradiction of Egypt's democracy being less than perfect or a denial of undemocratic efforts to undermine Morsi. It simply addressed that no matter how much it will be pushed, Morsi or the Muslim Brotherhood do not quite equate with or represent democracy.

 

The struggle in Egypt is not exactly between democracy loving freedom fighters and an evil empire army. Somewhat more complex than that, to put it mildly.

 

The topic is about Egyptian security forces blundering (or getting betrayed) and getting themselves killed.

In that case what does 

"It's an open question how long Egypt's "democracy" would have survived under a Muslim Brotherhood led government, or how democratic were some of its intended policies."

have to do with that?

 

[Scott]

It would appear that rather than actually STAYING ON TOPIC, some posters believe it is someone elses responsibility to get you back on topic.    I am not going to do that, but I will remove you from the thread for a time.   It's up to you.

 

Stay on topic, or get a posting holiday.