Staying In Thailand Longer Than 90 Days At A Time

[LivinLOS]

I am a British national living in Thailand (Phuket) for the last couple of years and have no plans to leave any time soon.

For my first few months I did the 30 day Visa's (at a time when 'agents' could handle this) and then April last year obtained a 'B' Visa via an agent for one year, even though I am not working at all or paying taxes.

I am aged 30 and kind of retired and have funds but do not wish to convert them into Thai baht or bring them into Thailand if it can be avoided. I generally bring money every 3 months or so via bank wire and showing I can support myself indefinately is no problem.

My B visa ran out in April and I am now on my last 90 day entry and looking into my options for long stay but would MUCH prefer not to have to leave the kingdom every 90 days on a Visa run to Ranong.

I was told last year that I could obtain an O visa by showing 2 million baht in a thai bank account, I asked if that money could be in Euro or USD (this is possible to have with the Bangkok Bank locally) as I was hopeful of bringing the money into Thailand and then sending it back out again afterwards. At the time I was told this should be acceptable but have recently been told this is now not acceptable !!!

So what can I do to get a one year multiple entry visa which does not require 90 day visa runs ??? I am unwilling to simply pay taxes on minimum wage (about 6k per month I am told) to have a full B visa and work permit and will continue to do the runs in that case.

It seems hard to get proper long stay abilities when you are retired at my age.

[LivinLOS]

So is there really no solution for someone who wants to stay in thailand spending large amounts of money brought in from overseas ???

Just because I have retired at 30 must i still always leave the country every 90 days or pay income tax on money that is not earnt (to expensive)... I am also unwilling at this point to convert 3 million into baht but would leave 3 mil in Euro in a thai bank as long as I had complete and unfettered access to it (can send back out of Thailand after)...

Surely there is a way.

[BobAnderson]

I don't have any legal alternatives for you other than considering the B3 million investment scheme noted on another thread.

But, I too hated the Ranong visa runs from Phuket - if money is not a major issue consider flying to Singpore for a day - do a little shopping have a nice meal, see a movie and return. Much nicer on the nerves.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

So is there really no solution for someone who wants to stay in thailand spending large amounts of money brought in from overseas ???

Just because I have retired at 30 must i still always leave the country every 90 days or pay income tax on money that is not earnt (to expensive)... I am also unwilling at this point to convert 3 million into baht but would leave 3 mil in Euro in a thai bank as long as I had complete and unfettered access to it (can send back out of Thailand after)...

Surely there is a way.

Invest 3 million baht in a condo, or in a bank in Thailand ( but it isn't portable...you need to leave it in the bank to maintain visa status)

[unbiasbob]

So is there really no solution for someone who wants to stay in thailand spending large amounts of money brought in from overseas ???

Just because I have retired at 30 must i still always leave the country every 90 days or pay income tax on money that is not earnt (to expensive)... I am also unwilling at this point to convert 3 million into baht but would leave 3 mil in Euro in a thai bank as long as I had complete and unfettered access to it (can send back out of Thailand after)...

Surely there is a way.

Welcome to club dude. We don't have too many options. Check 3 mil baht investor visa or just head out every 3 months. it aint fun but not that bad. 3 months is a long time. people like us sit on our hind qtrs a lot so what is big deal of bolting every 3 months. gives us something to do

[LivinLOS]

Yeah except I am not american so I dont get 90 day tourist visa's... As a brit thats every month unless I get a 'B' VISA... I am not working so I dont even know the legality of using a work permit and not working (what I did for the last year) and not paying taxes...

Plus last year getting a work permit issued in Munchen was a simple pay an 'agent' service and I assume that this year thats not the case...

Can I get an O VISA in Thailand (legally) that allows for 90 day stays ?? What would be the cost and requirements ???

Its nuts how tough it is to live here legally...

[simon43]

Sorry LivinLOS but I have no sympathy for you! Case of a winging Brit as far as I am concerned. I'm British also and have a B visa. The rules are quite simple and you know them. Leave the country every 90 days. Surely for someone like who who is retired at 30 this little effort is not too much for you to do???

The amount you state that you currently bring into the country is a low amount and hardly likely to benefit the Thai economy. And you say that you want to ship out any larger sums that you bring in to get a 1 year visa! Sounds like a lot of commitment to the country you are living in.

My suggestion is that you either bring in AND COMMIT a decent amount of money to LoS, or establish a business which can benefit you and the Thai economy/employees. A little bit less selfishness might be in order

[LivinLOS]

Simon, so staying on a B visa and not paying income tax is OK then ??? I can obtain a B visa inside Thailand without leaving and going back to Europe (any suggestion of whom would provide this legally) even if I am clear that I am not intending to work ??

I dont want to go back to the tourist visa's as it has implications for driving licences, tabien baan, vehicle ownership etc...

I state I want free and unfettered access to the money I have worked hard to obtain... Is that so weird ?? I want to be able to move MY money when and where I want... Dont you ???

I happen to think that if Thailand had a lot more people bringing in approx 1 million baht per annum (80k per month or so i guess currently) in direct foriegn exchange (and that is far more valuable than purely local business which simply transfers money from one local to another) it is purely a net gain to the ecomony... Who do you think recieves the money I bring in to spend ??

This is of course in addition to the build / purchase cost of a villa (say 300 - 500k USD) but as I understand it that does not count for squat in the 3 million baht rule ??

So say 20 mil invested in land and property and 1 mil per year brought in and I still am not 'committed' enough to LoS and am being selfish in desiring some 'long stay' kind of deal ??

Whinging Brit... Erm OK !!!

[simon43]

You do not have to work in Thailand to have a B visa. It is a business visa, not a work permit. I have a B visa because I own businesses in Thailand, but that does not mean I actually work in them.

I move my money into Thailand as and when I want. I don't consider moving it out again because that defeats the purpose of bringing it in in the 1st place. I don't consider 'juggling money' to and from different countries to benefit anyone except yourself and the banks who charge fund transfer fees.

But why on earth should you benefit from any special deal? This is Thailand!!! Each month I bring in over 1 million baht of my own money to Thailand, with some 25% of this being given directly to Thai charities. The majority of the rest is invested in new business ventures which will employ only local Thai nationals. I don't ask for any special favours and I don't expect them. I'm happy that I can stay for a 90 day period, end of story.

I stick with my last comment. You are selfish. Maybe you could start by thinking about how you could use your money or your own talents to directly benefit the country that you choose to live in. Maybe that means working here or running your own business or working voluntarily.

Anyway, at such a 'young' age and retired you must be bored sick

[LivinLOS]

OK so your saying I can get a B visa inside thailand without leaving the kingdom legally ?? I can do this even if I have no biz here and dont want one ??

My point being in moving money is while I dont mind moving it around I dont want to pay conversion percentages to change currencies again and again. I have no interest in living in a condo (I keep anti social hours) and my investments are better performing than gov bonds.

I believe that by spending money in Thailand that came from outside Thailand I AM benefiting the country directly. All I would like for that 'benefit' is the ability to obtain a legit visa (I am still not conviced that a B is legit in the way you say as I have been told specifically that its not) that then allows me to own cars and be more than a tourist.

As I understand it the O is not possible for me... The B (you say) is fine but I have been told it is not. Even if it is I still have to leave every 90 days.

Bored ?? Not yet...

[simon43]

OK, my advice (from this forum and the Thai consulate back in the UK), was that you do not have to work to have a B visa, but you do have to have a B visa to work!!

A B visa is a business visa. If you own a Thai business but do not work in it then you qualify for a B visa. If you travel to LoS to investigate business opportunities, or to purchase land for commercial reasons, then a B visa is what you need.

I'm not sure about obtaining it whilst in LoS. I think you can only get it whilst out of the country, but I'm sure Dr P can advise.

As far as I'm aware, the only 'visa' that you qualifiy for, and will allow you to stay here for longer periods, is The Elite Card!! (1 million baht gives a 5 year visa..). But that's a lot of money to fork out for the benefit of avoiding a trip outside LoS every 90 days. And you can do a lot more good with 1 million baht than giving it to the government...

Why don't you plan your 90 day vacations so they tie up with your investments in some way? Visit Singapore perhaps and sound out the stock-market???

[unbiasbob]

You do not have to work in Thailand to have a B visa. It is a business visa, not a work permit. I have a B visa because I own businesses in Thailand, but that does not mean I actually work in them.

I move my money into Thailand as and when I want. I don't consider moving it out again because that defeats the purpose of bringing it in in the 1st place. I don't consider 'juggling money' to and from different countries to benefit anyone except yourself and the banks who charge fund transfer fees.

But why on earth should you benefit from any special deal? This is Thailand!!! Each month I bring in over 1 million baht of my own money to Thailand, with some 25% of this being given directly to Thai charities. The majority of the rest is invested in new business ventures which will employ only local Thai nationals. I don't ask for any special favours and I don't expect them. I'm happy that I can stay for a 90 day period, end of story.

I stick with my last comment. You are selfish. Maybe you could start by thinking about how you could use your money or your own talents to directly benefit the country that you choose to live in. Maybe that means working here or running your own business or working voluntarily.

Anyway, at such a 'young' age and retired you must be bored sick

Seemone43, you must excuse me whilst I get on my knees and bow to you man. I am not worthy, nor is Livinlos. He only spends 80k a month here. LivinLOS, how dare you dude? You only spend about what the top 10% of farangs living in Thailand spend as most live in their 3000 baht closets. Gimme a break. livinlos is doing exactly what he wants to do. Leave the guy be. It's his life. If he doesn't want a thai wife, condo, job, business etc while he resides here, power to the dude. He is a major contributer to thai society with his hefty monthly spending (which you say is minor; my toucus it's minor), and he's doing what he wants rightfully so. Not what seamone43 wants him to do

[britainmal]

Actually, any money spend here benefits the thai Thai economy especially 2 to 3 million baht. Don't forget foreigners spend much more money than the average Thais do even in Bangkok.

[simon43]

What I'm moaning about is why should he (or anyone), expect any favours for spending or bringing their money to Thailand, however small or large an amount that is. This is Thailand. The rules exist for the benefit of Thai people, not for us farangs. If you can't accept those rules then don't bother coming here.

[britainmal]

Actually, you are exactly correct the rule benefits the Thai people and also Thais do not want to open the economy to foreigners because

they are racist and want to keep the blood level to at least 50 percent pure and protect their economy from foreigners, so the rich Thais can dominate the land.

This is

not a country that wants to open up to foreigners. We should fight for our rights like other minority

groups in western countries do.

[LivinLOS]

How about because I benefit the Thai economy ???

So far you have told me that A) a B visa is not suitable for me as I dont have any biz interests... B ) an O visa is not suitable C) I cant get either inside of Thailand.

Therefore to be 'legal' I would have to be on 30 day back to back visa's and have no car license, no ability to register a car, no way of getting a phone line in my name, no tabien baan etc etc etc.

This is at a time when I am 'selfishly' bringing in money and assisting the ecomony.

Does this not sound like a gap in the visa situation to you really ??? There is no long stay visa that readily applies to my needs legally.

Just as a note I have supported a woman in a long term relationship but due to her being married to a farang who is now MIA (and wanted) she cannot get divorced to remarry (which we would have done).

[britainmal]

I agree with you over 100 percent. I think you should bring this matter up to the Thai consulate or Thai immigaration. I think you can get some kind of visa with present laws.

[simon43]

Sorry to sound so negative, but I don't make these rules!! Maybe Dr P can suggest a visa option for you since I'm sure he is far more knowledgable about these matters than me.

If there is a gap in the visa situation because none meet your needs, then (sorry to be blunt), so what?!! This is Thailand and you have to live and work around the existing rules. I'm sorry, but I don't think Thai immigration, consulates etc give a ###### about your circumstances. That's how it is

[britainmal]

Well, I do agree simon with you they don't care, but if everybody goes to a Thai immigration or consulate

and tells them they are wrong or racist and a lot of people did this I think It will have an affect on Them.

[LivinLOS]

OK agreed... I dont think the whole world needs to bend over and kiss my ass and I am comfortable with that but as I am simply a net gain for Thailand you would think that Thailand would do something to allow them to benefit more easily from people like myself. I still dont see how that makes me an uncommited whinging Brit though !!!

Also on a previous note someone mentioned reciprocal visa arrangements for a Thai national going to the UK. I am almost sure that as long as they could fully support themselves and show a high net worth that it would be possible for them to make arrangments (and purchase land !!) but also consider what you get.

If a Thai goes to the UK they get the benefits of Health Care, Libraries, Road infrastructure, with an NI number there are state welfare programs, etc etc etc. With a farang coming to Thailand (despite its many many wonderful advantages) we have none of these things unless we PAY thereby improving the situation for Thais.

If I want to go to New Zealand (beautiful 1st world country) its an open door providing I can show a very small amount of money in the bank. Malaysia will grant me a 5 year visa very easily. Australia will allow me to go and work (or not) there simply. I think I recall that even the USA will grant me residency status if I was to declare my assets and net worth.

I guess I just dont see why I am any less of a benefit to Thailand than a Married man. I another thread someone was saying about overstay "Just get a ###### visa" OK sure.. Thats all I want to do...

[britainmal]

Yes, That proves me right that they are rasciat because don't forget Thailand is homegenuis society unlike the West.

[simon43]

Maybe I am just lazy, or maybe I have second sight, but my confidence that the Thais would change the rules if we all went and demoed at their consultates etc, is tending towards zero

Who are the Thai government interested in attracting to Thailand? Short-term western tourists who come here and spend a decent level of money per head during their stay in LoS. And after one or two weeks these tourists p*ss off back home again which is exactly how the Thai government wants it

As for the long-term stayers in Thailand, I suspect the vast majority contribute very little to the Thai economy. That's not to say that they don't have a moral argument for staying in Thailand, especially if they support a Thai wife/family. But moral arguments are not of interest to the Thai government.

Finally, there are the relatively few farang businessmen/women who bring reasonable 'wealth' into the country, pay taxes, employ Thai people etc. I should imagine these guys have little hassle from the Thai authorities, but that does not mean that rules are bent for them. (I have never had any hassles from them, but then again, I have never stuck my head above the parapit...)

This situation is fine for me because I have no issues about leaving the country every 90 days. I choose to donate money to Thai charities because I'm sure this has a far greater effect on improving the lot of needy people, rather than giving it all in taxes

Whether Thais or the Thai government is racist or not does not concern me because I can't change it! But that does not mean I have to respond in a similar manner. (I'm not religious by the way, just a 'humanist')

[LivinLOS]

I also agree that it is highly unlikely that any lobbying etc will make a change but to be honest I am still trying to find my way around the rules as getting accurate info is not easy.

I would have to say that it does appear that the Thai system is mildly xenophobic (as are many other countries... southern Germany is highly xenophobic on a personal level) but what I find odd is that the general Thais I meet dont seem to exhibit this attitude toward me. I find it strange that on a personal level I regularly feel very welcome and yet of a systemic level regularly feel so unwelcome.

[Sunny Valentine]

Simon, although your Statement makes some sense, I think there is also a point in LivinLOS query:

A Foreigner, who decides to stay in Thailand for a long period and could be considered wealthy, definitely makes a contribution towards the Thai Economy.

Those 2 Week Tourists maybe leave on average 2000 - 3000Bt, per Day in the Country(not counting the Flight), so maybe 30 000 on Average.

A Person who has the Money and will to live good in Thailand might easyly spend 100000 Bt. a Month, or 1,2 Million Baht in Thailand, on Condo, Food, Drinks, Travel, Daily shopping, even Barfines contribute toward the Economy ...

So one of these will spend the same amount per Year as 40 Tourists.

As I remember the latest Figures were 10 Million Tourists a Year, with the hope of increasing these figures at a yearly rate of 8% or so.

Let's do some Math:

To achieve this Thailand would need 800.000 Tourists more a Year with average 2 Weeks and 30000 Bt. spent in the local Economy; the same result could be achieved with 20.000 wealthy foereigners living here and spending 100.000 Bt a Month.

I know that 20.000 is probably a very high Figue, and not a realistic one to achieve, but seeing just some of the posts here in this Forum, I think there are at least 5 or 6 People (including me) who would be interested in staying long term, without hassle about Visas and the insecurity wether the 2 or 3 Month Visa they have will be extended on their next scheduled Visa Trip. And I am sure there are 1000s more who would be into that. Even if the figure would be only 2000 a Year, this would go for 10% of the planned Tourism increase!

Why are you so negative about these People?

And why cannot the Thai Government make a hassle-free, extendable one Year or 5 Year Visa for someone who can proove foreign income and / or Capital, and just require him to transfer an Amount of say 1.000.000 Bt a Year into Thailand (To be proven yearly by either Showing Thai Bankbook and TT3, or the necessary Amount of ATM slips from Accounts abroad.

[simon43]

I saw a comment in the parallel thread on this subject. You can't change the rules, so don't waste time trying. Rather, take actions so that you can work within the existing rules. I'm not suggesting you marry a Thai, so getting a B visa would seem to be the path you should follow. Why don't you either buy (via Sunbelt Asia) or establish a Thai business? Depending on what this is, the start-up sums could be very low. It does not have to take up your time at all (employ someone to manage it etc). And use this company as your vehicle to a B visa and work permit.

I'd love to just sit in Thailand and not leave every 90 days and not get involved with tax, VAT etc, but it really is not possible if you really want to stay here long-term (forget the 30 day perpetual tourist route). So a little sacrifice (money and effort), results in an acceptable situation.

But I'm still puzzled why leaving every 90 days is such a big hassle for you?

[LivinLOS]

Well the 90 day is not the end of the world but it an inconvenience that I would rather avoid (and seeing some married friends avoid it easily is slightly annoying) until this week and this forum i was not aware it was so impossible.

Secondly its also true that A) the biz visa is not really what I should be legally doing and B ) I cant get a B visa inside Thailand (can I ??).. So in effect the only 'legal' way I can stay here is on 30 day tourist visa's. This as you say is out of the question due to car / telephone / driving license / etc...

I guess I will simply abuse the system and take another B visa (5000 i hear in Panang) even though I shouldn't and do my 90 day runs..

[simon43]

It seems that the B visa is really the ONLY option for your circumstances, but this still requires you to make some changes to your lifestyle and to spend some money to achieve this. (Ie setting up a Thai company etc etc).

Yes, I know there seems to be a 'gap' in the types of visa that are available. A visa for the under 50s, not working but affluent would be great!

But this visa type does not exist! (except Elite Card). And the Thai government is not going to introduce this type of visa just because we go and moan at them.

I'm trying to be realistic here. I'd love to change many things in the world, but I can't, so I must try to work with the existing situation.

I do believe that you can only get a B visa from outside Thailand. And the ease of obtaining such a visa (in your cirumstances), does vary from consulate to consulate.

Have you thought of falsifying your age? Do you look 50?

[LivinLOS]

OK well thats a long way from your initial view of selfish whinging Brit who is uncommited to Thailand !!!

I agree that it is highly unlikely that any discussion or complaints will change the rules as they currently exist and I dont intend to waste my energy on such an endevour.. I had no real source of info to discuss this with until this forum and if it sounds like whinging it should really be considered surprise !! I actually thought that a non immigrant o was a possibility for me.

Anyway discussions with my old visa 'agent' today made it clear I can get another 1 year B visa in Panang for 5000 baht and he will even run a tour including hotel and a company that can sponsor me plus handle all paperwork for another 5k... So 10k baht and a 2 day penang run and I will be doing another year on a B (with 90 day Ranong runs) !!

Plus I look more like mid 20's than 50

[unbiasbob]

It seems that the B visa is really the ONLY option for your circumstances, but this still requires you to make some changes to your lifestyle and to spend some money to achieve this. (Ie setting up a Thai company etc etc).

Yes, I know there seems to be a 'gap' in the types of visa that are available. A visa for the under 50s, not working but affluent would be great!

But this visa type does not exist! (except Elite Card). And the Thai government is not going to introduce this type of visa just because we go and moan at them.

I'm trying to be realistic here. I'd love to change many things in the world, but I can't, so I must try to work with the existing situation.

I do believe that you can only get a B visa from outside Thailand. And the ease of obtaining such a visa (in your cirumstances), does vary from consulate to consulate.

Have you thought of falsifying your age? Do you look 50?

falsifying his age? now that isn't even funny

[simon43]

I dropped the 'selfish winging Brit etc' because it seemed to have touched a raw nerve

Falsifying age? LivinLoS says he looks 20 not 50. So howabout going for a student study visa??