Thai road carnage: A MILLION injuries and 24,000 deaths per year, official admits

[impulse]

2 hours ago, Ossy said:

Sorry Impulse, but for the first time (I think), I must disagree with you. In fact, more than that; your defensive driving - in this special 'driving in Thailand' context - scores a direct BOLLACKS!

.....

 

You're confusing my admiration for their defensive driving for safe driving.  I don't contend that they're safe.  But they do a remarkable job of dodging each other, in spite of constantly violating each others' legal right of way.  Fisticuffs would break out if the same things happened back home.  Yet, Thai's just shrug it off and get on with their voyage.  Usually.

 

It's a skill that I didn't have when I first started driving in Thailand, and an atmosphere that still, 7 years on, makes driving in Thailand very unpleasant for me.

 

[jvs]

Just saw another accident to ad to the statistic.

Classical accident over here,big truck turn left into a gas station and motorbike ended up under the truck.

Who are you going to blame for this?

When ever i drive on my bike on the highway and i see another road user is going to turn left i always slow down and let them go first.

I do not expect the other driver to use their mirror or paying attention.

What ever the law states,i let other people go first!!!It kept me alive so far.

[oldlakey]

10 hours ago, impulse said:

 

You’re kidding. Right?

 

Back home, I can drive for months without dodging anyone violating my legal right of way.  On one hand, it’s a pleasure to drive that way.  On the other, it’s not great practice for driving in Thailand where there’s no telling what another driver’s going to do, regardless of what the law says they should be doing.  Because the odds of them getting pulled over for breaking the law are between slim and none in LOS. 

 

Dodging those guys is what defensive driving is all about.  And Thai drivers are masters at it.  They have to be, or they wouldn’t last a week.

 

Excellent reply, but I think the figures prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the OTHERS far out number the competent defensive drivers

Thats why last week, this week, and next week, etc etc etc, WAS, IS or WILL be their last week

Its a great shame because no population deserves whats happening on Thailands roads, even though the ball is firmly in their court as far as changing it for the better is concerned

Edited October 31, 2017 by oldlakey

[oldlakey]

6 hours ago, impulse said:

 

You're confusing my admiration for their defensive driving for safe driving.  I don't contend that they're safe.  But they do a remarkable job of dodging each other, in spite of constantly violating each others' legal right of way.  Fisticuffs would break out if the same things happened back home.  Yet, Thai's just shrug it off and get on with their voyage.  Usually.

 

It's a skill that I didn't have when I first started driving in Thailand, and an atmosphere that still, 7 years on, makes driving in Thailand very unpleasant for me.

 

I dont contend that they're safe

Well thats a break through at least

This remarkable job of avoiding each other that you admire, what are the chances of it actually becoming a 24/7 thing

 

 

[mommysboy]

6 hours ago, jvs said:

Just saw another accident to ad to the statistic.

Classical accident over here,big truck turn left into a gas station and motorbike ended up under the truck.

Who are you going to blame for this?

When ever i drive on my bike on the highway and i see another road user is going to turn left i always slow down and let them go first.

I do not expect the other driver to use their mirror or paying attention.

What ever the law states,i let other people go first!!!It kept me alive so far.

Me too.

[mommysboy]

6 hours ago, impulse said:

 

You're confusing my admiration for their defensive driving for safe driving.  I don't contend that they're safe.  But they do a remarkable job of dodging each other, in spite of constantly violating each others' legal right of way.  Fisticuffs would break out if the same things happened back home.  Yet, Thai's just shrug it off and get on with their voyage.  Usually.

 

It's a skill that I didn't have when I first started driving in Thailand, and an atmosphere that still, 7 years on, makes driving in Thailand very unpleasant for me.

 

I see where you are coming from.  Most of the time I potter around but occasionally I sense danger from driving too slow, usually because I've spotted something in the rear mirror, and sometimes I then go on to Thai mode.  It's a trick best used sparingly though.

Edited October 31, 2017 by mommysboy

[oldlakey]

13 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

I see where you are coming from.  Most of the time I potter around but occasionally I sense danger from driving too slow, usually because I've spotted something in the rear mirror, and sometimes I then go on to Thai mode.  It's a trick best used sparingly though.

I see where you are coming from

Now thats a talent worth bagging up and selling to ALL Thailands road users

[01322521959]

Nobody in authority can be arsed to make an effort. Without stating at the root cause, nothing will change. 

Do Thais learn to drive? No. Are laws enforced? No. I've seen standards drop in the years I've been riding here. 

Please Thailand, take a look at the UK and just try to follow its lead. It works quite well there, just follow any European country's way and you'll be cutting the accidents within 6 months. 

[observer90210]

Now this is quite a surprise!!.....was expecting the figures of the mishaps and toll to be the double !!

[Happyman58]

9.am in the morning me and the wife drive to the park to go walking. 15 minute drive. I am very nervous because i know what we will have to drive through to get to that park. In other words i ready for all the idiot Thai drivers we shall see. Sure enough they dont let me down Defensive driving skills wont save me i am afraid. Just pure LUCK does. We encountered speeding drivers, tailgaters, no indication changing lanes, doing a U -turn and having car across lane. Turning right and they are in the wrong lane (Not the turning lane) Going through red lights. Taking right away off us Motorbikes coming up the wrong side of road. We stopped at some lights and there were the keystone cops watching the traffic. They just got out of there hut. If they could not see these drivers in action they have to blind but they just stand there do nothing.

 

That is why 26,000 die on Thai Roads. They are a mob zombies driving cars in Thailand They have no idea about road rules and they have no respect for the law. Why should they have respect for the law after seeing that cop standing there with a blank look on his face watching all these cars break the rules and do nothing. If i was a cop in Thailand i could fill 20 traffic offences books every day without raising a sweat. But booking them would be the easy part getting them to pay the fines would be harder  No win situation i am afraid. The car driving needs a whole attitude change and that would take years and years So next year i would say 30,000 dead 

[Airbagwill]

On 10/30/2017 at 11:11 PM, mommysboy said:

 

Sure, the quality of roads is a factor too, and perhaps the poor response of emergency services, and a general lack of training.  My impression of riding on Thai roads is that there this is a small, but very dangerous minority of people -mainly young bikers- who drive recklessly and at speed.  I really think this is where the main source of the fatalities must arise.  At low speed most collisions don't kill, but by the time it reaches 40mph there is quite an increase.  I potter around on my motorbike mainly at 20- 30 mph.  Needless to say I am one of the slowest on the roads and am frequently overtaken.  Yet this is about normal speed for town riding in UK.

"My impression of riding on Thai roads is that there this is a small, but very dangerous minority of people -mainly young bikers- who drive recklessly and at speed."

This is the problem people are unable to tell the difference between perception and reality.

There is "a small minority" in EVERY country - so why is Thaila so different in th nuymber of deaths - so long as you just concentrate on one issue you will never see the problem, let alone solve it.

 

e.g - 

I think this is very useful to help understand why most expats comments on driving in Thailand are so wide of the mark.

Basically they are basing their ideas on “intuitive” knowledge based on untutored personal observations..

 

http://ideas.ted.com/the-fascinating-reason-that-children-write-letters-backwards/?utm_campaign=social&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_content=ideas-blog&utm_term=social-science

 

“To understand that the world is round, one must unlearn something very natural based on sensory experience: the world is flat. And when we understand that the world is round, other problems emerge. Why don’t people on the other side of the world fall off? On earth, gravity does its job, keeping everybody stuck. But this brings new problems — why doesn’t the world fall if it is just floating in space?”

 

such is much of the thinking on road safety expressed on this and other threads

 

 

[mommysboy]

34 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

"My impression of riding on Thai roads is that there this is a small, but very dangerous minority of people -mainly young bikers- who drive recklessly and at speed."

This is the problem people are unable to tell the difference between perception and reality.

There is "a small minority" in EVERY country - so why is Thaila so different in th nuymber of deaths - so long as you just concentrate on one issue you will never see the problem, let alone solve it.

 

e.g - 

I think this is very useful to help understand why most expats comments on driving in Thailand are so wide of the mark.

Basically they are basing their ideas on “intuitive” knowledge based on untutored personal observations..

 

http://ideas.ted.com/the-fascinating-reason-that-children-write-letters-backwards/?utm_campaign=social&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_content=ideas-blog&utm_term=social-science

 

“To understand that the world is round, one must unlearn something very natural based on sensory experience: the world is flat. And when we understand that the world is round, other problems emerge. Why don’t people on the other side of the world fall off? On earth, gravity does its job, keeping everybody stuck. But this brings new problems — why doesn’t the world fall if it is just floating in space?”

 

such is much of the thinking on road safety expressed on this and other threads

 

 

What complete and utter nonsense!  Patronising drivel.  Codswallop!

 

What you seem to believe is that speed is somewhat irrelevant to accidents, yet it is blindingly obvious to most people that it is a strong cause.  You would have us believe that by importing an infrastructure similar to UK, speed and the laws of physics would in some way be changed.  It would of course help matters, it would be a cure of sorts, a cure to the problem of speed (reckless driving) which is undoubtedly the primary reason for most fatalities.

 

When normal people point this out to you, rather than keep to the argument you choose to post condescending, and patronising replies as if that displays some intelligence on your part which makes you superior to others: sixth form philosophy badly applied does not cut it with me, anyway.

 

 

[Airbagwill]

4 hours ago, mommysboy said:

What complete and utter nonsense!  Patronising drivel.  Codswallop!

 

What you seem to believe is that speed is somewhat irrelevant to accidents, yet it is blindingly obvious to most people that it is a strong cause.  You would have us believe that by importing an infrastructure similar to UK, speed and the laws of physics would in some way be changed.  It would of course help matters, it would be a cure of sorts, a cure to the problem of speed (reckless driving) which is undoubtedly the primary reason for most fatalities.

 

When normal people point this out to you, rather than keep to the argument you choose to post condescending, and patronising replies as if that displays some intelligence on your part which makes you superior to others: sixth form philosophy badly applied does not cut it with me, anyway.

 

 

As expected - QED - but thanks for the repost

[oldlakey]

7 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

"My impression of riding on Thai roads is that there this is a small, but very dangerous minority of people -mainly young bikers- who drive recklessly and at speed."

This is the problem people are unable to tell the difference between perception and reality.

There is "a small minority" in EVERY country - so why is Thaila so different in th nuymber of deaths - so long as you just concentrate on one issue you will never see the problem, let alone solve it.

 

e.g - 

I think this is very useful to help understand why most expats comments on driving in Thailand are so wide of the mark.

Basically they are basing their ideas on “intuitive” knowledge based on untutored personal observations..

 

http://ideas.ted.com/the-fascinating-reason-that-children-write-letters-backwards/?utm_campaign=social&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_content=ideas-blog&utm_term=social-science

 

“To understand that the world is round, one must unlearn something very natural based on sensory experience: the world is flat. And when we understand that the world is round, other problems emerge. Why don’t people on the other side of the world fall off? On earth, gravity does its job, keeping everybody stuck. But this brings new problems — why doesn’t the world fall if it is just floating in space?”

 

such is much of the thinking on road safety expressed on this and other threads

 

 

I just can't help myself, I look at the figures concerning Thailands roads the number of accidents, injuries, permanent disabilities, and last but not least the fatalities, and I still come to the conclusion that being on Thailands roads is dangerous

I can't but help putting this down in the main to the road users themselves, Its a fault I have learned to live with though

 

[TheBrain]

It is common here to see 3 people on one motorbike, no one have helmets, no driver license, speeding for sure, overtaking everything on opposite side of road. Even police does not have proper helmets. I do not understand why they cannot give to police proper full face or modular helmets? 

[wow64]

Gotto wonder why such an advanced country such as Thailand 4.0 cannot advance to no 1 in the near future. 

[brling]

9 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

"My impression of riding on Thai roads is that there this is a small, but very dangerous minority of people -mainly young bikers- who drive recklessly and at speed."

This is the problem people are unable to tell the difference between perception and reality.

There is "a small minority" in EVERY country - 

 

 

What are you smoking ?( "a small minority"), and as for the usual pathetic Thai apologists favourite  line " same in every country"  Sad.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 5:48 AM, 4MyEgo said:

1) It would have to start from where the new recruits enter the force for learning

 

2) All current police wouldn't be getting promotions or pay rises unless a target was reached from traffic fines, ensuring that motorists start to comply

 

3) Any cops falling short of the mark would be put behind a desk for admin work and demoted in pay 

 

4) Start dismissing corrupt cops

 

I know I am dreaming, but you did ask, it really is simple, but they would have to turn their system upside down, perhaps send some of their top brass to Sydney to show them how its down and that would open their slant eyes, i.e. you are literally in fear to start your car, i.e. sheeeet have I got my seat belt on, blinkers working, keep to speed limit because they cops are extended by way of fixed speed camera's, mobile speed camera's unmarked parked vehicles with speed camera's, police vehicles with speed detectors, red light camera's and the good old hand held radar speed detectors, random breath testing vehicles, etc, etc, etc, and the fines are heavy, with loss of points system, 3 years to replace lost points, automatic loss of licence if you travel over 45km, and then there is jail if you drive while disqualified and hefty fine.

Dreaming, yes.

In Australasia it is most UNENJOYABLE to drive now, yet they can't stop the real maniacs. Low death rate in NZ, but I don't know if that is down to fanatical policing or better designed cars for survival.

I'm a believer in self responsibility, not the nanny state dictating my every move, so I also have to believe in wearing a helmet up to me, seat belt up to me etc etc, but I also don't want other people paying to fix up someone injured because they wouldn't take safety precautions.

Regardless, I enjoy driving on good Thailand roads ( two lane each way expressways ), but I was always worried that 5 kids on a m'bike would ride out in front of me on a rural road without looking ( as they do ), and I'd be beaten to death for something not my fault.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

"My impression of riding on Thai roads is that there this is a small, but very dangerous minority of people -mainly young bikers- who drive recklessly and at speed."

This is the problem people are unable to tell the difference between perception and reality.

There is "a small minority" in EVERY country - so why is Thaila so different in th nuymber of deaths - so long as you just concentrate on one issue you will never see the problem, let alone solve it.

 

e.g - 

I think this is very useful to help understand why most expats comments on driving in Thailand are so wide of the mark.

Basically they are basing their ideas on “intuitive” knowledge based on untutored personal observations..

 

http://ideas.ted.com/the-fascinating-reason-that-children-write-letters-backwards/?utm_campaign=social&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_content=ideas-blog&utm_term=social-science

 

“To understand that the world is round, one must unlearn something very natural based on sensory experience: the world is flat. And when we understand that the world is round, other problems emerge. Why don’t people on the other side of the world fall off? On earth, gravity does its job, keeping everybody stuck. But this brings new problems — why doesn’t the world fall if it is just floating in space?”

 

such is much of the thinking on road safety expressed on this and other threads

 

 

HUH. Any fool looking at the ocean can see that the world is round. They only believed it was flat because they were ignorant at the start and then the men in silly hats used erroneous knowledge to control everyone else. Bit hard to go against the men in silly hats if they killed one for doing so.

 

If one drives enough on Thai roads, they soon learn that there is a very LARGE and dangerous number of maniacs driving on Thai roads. I made few journeys in the day time without at least one incident of near death occurring. For that reason I preferred driving at night, but planned it so I didn't hit the rural roads till after dark, as at dusk too many were driving without lights. The only down side was the expressways were full of big trucks doing the night run to the cities.

[BradWilkins]

A lot of long distance drivers use yabaa to keep them awake so they can drive longer without rest, to earn more money. When it wears off, or they cant stay awake or alert any more is when serious accidents happen. Drug tests as well as alcohol tests are needed.

Edited November 1, 2017 by BradWilkins

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Dreaming, yes.

In Australasia it is most UNENJOYABLE to drive now, yet they can't stop the real maniacs. Low death rate in NZ, but I don't know if that is down to fanatical policing or better designed cars for survival.

I'm a believer in self responsibility, not the nanny state dictating my every move, so I also have to believe in wearing a helmet up to me, seat belt up to me etc etc, but I also don't want other people paying to fix up someone injured because they wouldn't take safety precautions.

Regardless, I enjoy driving on good Thailand roads ( two lane each way expressways ), but I was always worried that 5 kids on a m'bike would ride out in front of me on a rural road without looking ( as they do ), and I'd be beaten to death for something not my fault.

Totally agree that driving in Australia is the pits, i.e. you can't breath, highway patrol up your arsssse, and if your not wearing a seat belt, or helmet, your gone instantly, speed cameras, red light cameras, mobile cameras, radar detectors, etc etc, but it does keep the populations road death down to a bare minimum, i.e. less than 1,000 deaths per annum of a population of 24 million, i.e. around 1/3 of Thailands population and we know they lost 24,000 on the roads last year, you don't have to be Einstein to work out Australia's policy is the way to go, as traumatic as it is to drive on the road in fear of being booked, alone, the fact remains, it works, now one could argue that its all about revenue raising, but hey, what's a life worth and the money gets injected straight back into the economy as opposed to the cops pockets.

 

Choices went out longs ago, but I do remember that I used to love riding my two stroke 1972 Kawasaki h2 750 triple without a helmet years ago, they used to call the bike "The Widow Maker" i.e. until I grew some brains when I got a little older and came back into riding in 1999 after I got divorced and bought myself a Kawasaki ZZR1100 D3, my late brother named it "Battle Star Galactica" and I used to love getting into warp speed on the open roads, although his Sukuzi 1000 couldn't catch me, that is until he purchased his Hyabusa, then it was all over, I retired respectfully. Now days I look at the latest Kawasaki H2 and drool, would be a nice way to go out, that or another heart attack 555 

[ZeVonderBearz]

Nanny state is a phrase I see often here and it's something that a lot of people don't want or the reason they fled their home country to come to Thailand is to get away from a nanny state. But isn't Thailand already a nanny state but with the completely wrong intentions at heart? It's all worship this way, wear this on that day, jump when I say etc. Just think if the powers that be took all this controlling bullshittery and focused on improving the lives of people, rather than just dictating when people should stand and when they should sit and how. Maybe to clean up the mess that is all the deaths and accidents on the road they could start by getting some big vehicles off the road. How about enforcing compulsory vehicle insurance that is tiered depending on the power of a car/bike - more powerful bikes/cars pay more. I think very quickly there'd be a huge drop in these vehicles on the road and the people who feel like they have to use all the power, all the time just to speed down the road to the 7/11 just because they paid for the vehicle, so therefore it is their right to do so. Then again, I doubt the Japanese would allow this to happen as then they'd be selling less big vehicles to people who have no idea about how to use then. I couldn't care less about those who decide to ride/drive like idiots and then crash head first into a parked pickup as long as they don't harm others in the process.  Anyway, I write this after a work commute that leaves me pretty pee'd off most every morning. 

[Artisi]

19 hours ago, mommysboy said:

What complete and utter nonsense!  Patronising drivel.  Codswallop!

 

What you seem to believe is that speed is somewhat irrelevant to accidents, yet it is blindingly obvious to most people that it is a strong cause.  You would have us believe that by importing an infrastructure similar to UK, speed and the laws of physics would in some way be changed.  It would of course help matters, it would be a cure of sorts, a cure to the problem of speed (reckless driving) which is undoubtedly the primary reason for most fatalities.

 

When normal people point this out to you, rather than keep to the argument you choose to post condescending, and patronising replies as if that displays some intelligence on your part which makes you superior to others: sixth form philosophy badly applied does not cut it with me, anyway.

 

 

Go easy, you must realise that some people just love to quote theory and believe it's the panacea for all problems. They are completely blind to reality and insist their ideas based on theoritical models is the gospel. 

[Artisi]

9 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Go easy, you must realise that some people just love to quote theory and believe it's the panacea for all problems. They are completely blind to reality and insist their ideas based on theoritical models is the gospel. 

Forgot to add the wise words of Sherlock Holmes   ".... don't twist facts to suit theories..... " 

[Happyman58]

4 hours ago, BradWilkins said:

A lot of long distance drivers use yabaa to keep them awake so they can drive longer without rest, to earn more money. When it wears off, or they cant stay awake or alert any more is when serious accidents happen. Drug tests as well as alcohol tests are needed.

Brad its a great idea ok I agree with you  But who will do the alcohol tests? Ok i know your answer The police How about this for common practice in Thailand  Police man pulls over driver tests him. He is way over the limit  Policeman says to driver License please  Answer from driver What license? Police man says  license to drive Minivan Oh  license not have  Driver and Policeman have big laugh on that one  Driver reaches for his wallet Takes out 500 baht gives to Police man Police waves "On your way driver" That is how corrupt and rotten the whole system is here

[Happyman58]

11 hours ago, TheBrain said:

It is common here to see 3 people on one motorbike, no one have helmets, no driver license, speeding for sure, overtaking everything on opposite side of road. Even police does not have proper helmets. I do not understand why they cannot give to police proper full face or modular helmets? 

i have seen 3 lots of times and some have 4 on them No helmets. I was driving  the car the other day and went to turn left and a policeman cut the corner in front of me wearing no helmet  So your think they are serious about that law about people wearing helmets? It is just there Tea money 200 baht on the spot fine and away u go rider Best one i have seen is they get them for no license to ride that bike fine them and let them drive off with another 200 baht fine Tell you its better than watching a comedy show The Thai people think the cops are a big joke and you know what they are a right? They know they can break the law and that is why they die in their thousands

[Artisi]

57 minutes ago, Happyman58 said:

i have seen 3 lots of times and some have 4 on them No helmets. I was driving  the car the other day and went to turn left and a policeman cut the corner in front of me wearing no helmet  So your think they are serious about that law about people wearing helmets? It is just there Tea money 200 baht on the spot fine and away u go rider Best one i have seen is they get them for no license to ride that bike fine them and let them drive off with another 200 baht fine Tell you its better than watching a comedy show The Thai people think the cops are a big joke and you know what they are a right? They know they can break the law and that is why they die in their thousands

Like the guy my wife works with, has been bragging for years about not paying his bike road tax,  rides with the helmet strap undone, if he wears it at all - well his number came up about 2 weeks ago, knocked off his bike, helmet flew off of course - head smashed into the road- still in intensive care with permanent brain damage and a massive bill to cover the intricate surgery he has had to have to maintain his near vegetable state. 

Just another one of  the million + injured thru' their own stupidity - this guy has a PhD from a leading UK university - so just proves that knowledge and intelligence are miles apart. 

[Happyman58]

4 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Like the guy my wife works with, has been bragging for years about not paying his bike road tax,  rides with the helmet strap undone, if he wears it at all - well his number came up about 2 weeks ago, knocked off his bike, helmet flew off of course - head smashed into the road- still in intensive care with permanent brain damage and a massive bill to cover the intricate surgery he has had to have to maintain his near vegetable state. 

Just another one of  the million + injured thru' their own stupidity - this guy has a PhD from a leading UK university - so just proves that knowledge and intelligence are miles apart. 

Yep makes u wonder They just think it cant happen  to them 

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, Happyman58 said:

Yep makes u wonder They just think it cant happen  to them 

This shows that stupid is not per se the problem - it is enforcement - every country has the same stupid %age, the problem is STOPPING stupid from doing what comes naturally.

in most countries stupid beciomes aware that he can't do this without ramifications.....an unstopped helmet is easy to spot as is road tax (and insurance in the UK)

Edited November 2, 2017 by Airbagwill

[Happyman58]

4 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

This shows that stupid is not per se the problem - it is enforcement - every country has the same stupid %age, the problem is STOPPING stupid from doing what comes naturally.

in most countries stupid beciomes aware that he can't do this without ramifications.....an unstopped helmet is easy to spot as is road tax (and insurance in the UK)

I agree The police force here is letting down everybody in Thailand  They know the law says Wear a bloody helmet. But they dont Why? Because they know the cops are corrupt and weak