Banking service???????

[webfact]

Kremlin says Russia not accused in U.S. case against ex-Trump aides

By Andrew Osborn

 

Former Trump 2016 campaign chairman Paul Manafort leaves U.S. Federal Court after being arraigned on twelve federal charges in the investigation into alleged Russian meddling in the 2016 U.S. presidential election in Washington, U.S. October 30, 2017. REUTERS/James Lawler Duggan

 

MOSCOW (Reuters) - The Kremlin said on Tuesday that U.S. charges against President Donald Trump's former campaign manager Paul Manafort and another aide showed Moscow had been unfairly maligned in accusations that it meddled in last year's U.S. presidential election.

 

Federal investigators probing alleged Russian interference in the election, something Moscow denies, charged Manafort and Rick Gates with money laundering on Monday.

 

But despite being brought as part of a five-month-old investigation into alleged Russian efforts to tilt the election in Trump's favour and into potential collusion by Trump aides, the charges, some going back over a decade, centred on Manafort's work for Ukraine's former government, not Russia's.

 

That was welcomed in Russia, where officials are watching the investigation closely since public evidence of Russian meddling, something that has not so far been presented, would be sure to translate into tougher U.S. sanctions against Moscow.

 

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov highlighted the absence of allegations against Russia in the indictment against Manafort and Gates, saying on Tuesday that Moscow had always said it had never interfered in the U.S. election.

 

That assertion is challenged by U.S. intelligence agencies who say unequivocally that Moscow did interfere in the November 2016 vote.

 

"...Russia does not feature in the charges that were levelled in any way. Other countries and other people feature (in the charges)," Peskov told a conference call with reporters.

 

"Moscow never felt itself guilty so it doesn't feel exonerated now," he said, when asked whether the Kremlin interpreted the indictment as proof that its repeated denials about meddling election were true.

 

Peskov also brushed aside any suggestion that someone with links to the Russian Foreign Ministry might have tried to set up a meeting with the Trump campaign through a third ex-aide, George Papadopoulos, who it was announced on Monday pleaded guilty in early October to lying to the FBI.

 

"LAUGHABLE ALLEGATION"

 

Russia's flagship TV news show took a similar line on Monday evening, saying it was "now clear that there was nothing" to allegations about Manafort being in touch with Russian officials to try to sway the election.

 

The U.S. investigation was an internal matter for the United States, said Peskov, but Moscow was following it with interest.

 

Peskov laughed off the purported role of Papadopoulos, who told investigators he had tried to set up a meeting between the Trump campaign and the Russian leadership.

 

In his unsuccessful quest to broker such a meeting, Papadopoulos said he had met a London-based professor boasting of contacts with Russian officials and an unnamed Russian woman. He also mentioned being in touch with someone linked to the Russian Foreign Ministry.

 

Peskov, when asked what the Kremlin made of someone linked to the Foreign Ministry allegedly trying to set up a Putin-Trump meeting, said: "It's an absolutely laughable allegation."

 

Media reports have suggested the individual linked to the ministry is Ivan Timofeev, who works for a Moscow-based think-tank called the Russian International Relations Council (RIAC).

 

Timofeev did not respond to a request for comment, but told the gazeta.ru online news portal in August that Papadopoulos had emailed him in the spring of 2016 and spoken about the possibility of organising a Trump trip to Russia.

 

Timofeev said Papadopoulos had never made a formal request to either RIAC or the Russian Foreign Ministry for such a visit, however, and that he had got the impression that he had been "acting on his own initiative" and was "an enthusiast with little experience."

 

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told reporters on Tuesday that there was nothing "illegal" about Papadopoulos contacting someone at RIAC.

 

(Additional reporting by Dmitry Solovyov, Katya Golubkova and Gabrielle Tetrault-Farber; Editing by Catherine Evans/Mark Heinrich)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-11-01

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Federal investigators probing alleged Russian interference in the election, something Moscow denies, charged Manafort and Rick Gates with money laundering on Monday.

Moscow denies?  That bastion of truth and freedom of speech.  LOL

 

It's already been proven they interfered in the elections.  Twitter has now banned ads from Russia.  More will be coming.  Time to fight back.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/09/07/alleged-russian-political-meddling-documented-27-countries-since-2004/619056001/

Alleged Russian political meddling documented in 27 countries since 2004

[retarius]

Yes pretty funny stuff.....the media panties are in a bunch. Last time I looked Ukraine is 'Russia-linked' as it shares a border with Russia and therefore it is legitimate for the press to splash headlines saying "Manafort arrested in Trump Russia probe". All it takes is for people to read the indictment to see that this is no remotely related to the Russia probe. The alleged offenses took place in 2012/3 and are related to Ukraine. Willful blindness brought on by hatred of all things Trump. I have no love for Trump and probably unlike the vast majority of readers I actually worked with the man in 1992, but I do like to see some real concrete evidence and not using weasel words like Russia-linked to imply much more than it means in practice ie that Trump once ordered Russian dressing on his salad.

[Andaman Al]

And so Russia continue to meddle in US democracy, now even trying to influence the judicial system and public opinion yet again.

 

Ordinarily Russia would maintain absolute silence on such a subject. They are commenting simply to throw more fuel on the fire so they can sit back and laugh at the USA.

 

 

15 minutes ago, retarius said:

All it takes is for people to read the indictment to see that this is no remotely related to the Russia probe.

So when are YOU going to read the indictment? Once you have done so please come back and explain how there is no 'remotely related' issues pertaining to the Russia probe.

[craigt3365]

35 minutes ago, retarius said:

Yes pretty funny stuff.....the media panties are in a bunch. Last time I looked Ukraine is 'Russia-linked' as it shares a border with Russia and therefore it is legitimate for the press to splash headlines saying "Manafort arrested in Trump Russia probe". All it takes is for people to read the indictment to see that this is no remotely related to the Russia probe. The alleged offenses took place in 2012/3 and are related to Ukraine. Willful blindness brought on by hatred of all things Trump. I have no love for Trump and probably unlike the vast majority of readers I actually worked with the man in 1992, but I do like to see some real concrete evidence and not using weasel words like Russia-linked to imply much more than it means in practice ie that Trump once ordered Russian dressing on his salad.

It's all related.  You've not researched Manafort's role in Ukraine have you?  Which was directly linked to Russia.

 

There are too many dots connecting to say there's no connection.  How deep?  What was the impact.  More to come soon....LOL

[amvet]

2 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

And so Russia continue to meddle in US democracy, now even trying to influence the judicial system and public opinion yet again.

 

Ordinarily Russia would maintain absolute silence on such a subject. They are commenting simply to throw more fuel on the fire so they can sit back and laugh at the USA.

 

 

So when are YOU going to read the indictment? Once you have done so please come back and explain how there is no 'remotely related' issues pertaining to the Russia probe.

I read the Papadopoulos indictment.  The Russians told him they had the Clinton emails she trashed and didn't tell the FBI about and they contained a lot of dirt.  Trump had asked the Russians publicly to try and find those emails and apparently they had and they contained a bunch of dirt.  But Papadopoulos couldn't interest the Trump organization in the dirt so it died there.  The problem for Papadopoulos is that he lied to the FBI about talking to the Russians and they didn't like that.  

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, amvet said:

But Papadopoulos couldn't interest the Trump organization in the dirt so it died there.

So is your definition of "couldn't interest the Trump organization in the dirt"  equivalent to -  'such a lack of interest that they only arranged a meeting of 3 senior advisors in the Trump campaign including the campaign chairman and 5 other people including a group of Russian lawyers and other 'persons' that had proven links to espionage and the Kremlin  (and non of them had any links at all to babies, orphans and adoption!!)? If that is your definition of 'couldn't interest them in the dirt' then I fully accept it.

 

Now try reading the indictment again and don't cheat yourself by being so selective in what you read. The truth can often cause an epiphany if you pursue it for what it is - the truth, rather than pursuing only certain facts because you like them or agree with them. The truth is holistic, it does not come in grades of 'truth' from 1 to 10, something is either the truth or it is not, it is black and white. For Donald Trump to say that Papadopoulos is a 'liar' gave me the best laugh of all this morning. Tell me do you think Donald Trump has any moral right to question if anyone is a liar or not? Go on, tell us your opinion, tell us the truth even if it hurts.

[punchjudy]

the USA has been meddling in russian elections since the fall of communism.

[amvet]

7 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

So is your definition of "couldn't interest the Trump organization in the dirt"  equivalent to -  'such a lack of interest that they only arranged a meeting of 3 senior advisors in the Trump campaign including the campaign chairman and 5 other people including a group of Russian lawyers and other 'persons' that had proven links to espionage and the Kremlin  (and non of them had any links at all to babies, orphans and adoption!!)? If that is your definition of 'couldn't interest them in the dirt' then I fully accept it.

 

Now try reading the indictment again and don't cheat yourself by being so selective in what you read. The truth can often cause an epiphany if you pursue it for what it is - the truth, rather than pursuing only certain facts because you like them or agree with them. The truth is holistic, it does not come in grades of 'truth' from 1 to 10, something is either the truth or it is not, it is black and white. For Donald Trump to say that Papadopoulos is a 'liar' gave me the best laugh of all this morning. Tell me do you think Donald Trump has any moral right to question if anyone is a liar or not? Go on, tell us your opinion, tell us the truth even if it hurts.

Shouldn't lie.  No mention of meeting 3 senior advisors in the Trump campaign including the campaign chairman and 5 other people including a group of Russian lawyers mentioned in any indictments.  It was you who was asking everyone to read the indictments was it not?  Methinks you have not read them yourself. So, when are you going to read the indictments?

Edited November 1, 2017 by amvet

[amvet]

36 minutes ago, punchjudy said:

the USA has been meddling in russian elections since the fall of communism.

That is big news to CNN.  You better call them. 

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, amvet said:

Shouldn't lie.  No mention of meeting 3 senior advisors in the Trump campaign including the campaign chairman and 5 other people including a group of Russian lawyers mentioned in any indictments.  It was you who was asking everyone to read the indictments was it not?  Methinks you have not read them yourself. So, when are you going to read the indictments?

You are a confused individual. Are you unable to read what I was answering? I was answering this:

 

2 hours ago, amvet said:

But Papadopoulos couldn't interest the Trump organization in the dirt so it died there

Does it say that in the indictment? - no, that was your subjective opinion of Papadopoulos and the clinton 'dirt'. The truth is that the Campaign were interested enough to hold a full on meeting. How can you say they were not interested. Now lets get back to truths again instead of imitating your hero with spins , pivots and deflections.

[amvet]

44 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

You are a confused individual. Are you unable to read what I was answering? I was answering this:

 

Does it say that in the indictment? - no, that was your subjective opinion of Papadopoulos and the clinton 'dirt'. The truth is that the Campaign were interested enough to hold a full on meeting. How can you say they were not interested. Now lets get back to truths again instead of imitating your hero with spins , pivots and deflections.

Where in any indictments (that's what this thread is about) does it say the Trump organization wanted any dirt from the Kremlin?  Is it true that Podesta tried to get dirt on Trump from the Russian government (Steele dossier)?  I hope that will come out but really doubt it. 

 

Trump is not my hero.  I think he is a moron, scumbag and a creep.  He only looks good when comparing him to his enemies. 

[ilostmypassword]

54 minutes ago, amvet said:

Where in any indictments (that's what this thread is about) does it say the Trump organization wanted any dirt from the Kremlin?  Is it true that Podesta tried to get dirt on Trump from the Russian government (Steele dossier)?  I hope that will come out but really doubt it. 

 

Trump is not my hero.  I think he is a moron, scumbag and a creep.  He only looks good when comparing him to his enemies. 

Wow. Are you saying that the Steele Dossier was a product of the Russian government?

And as for your dislike of Trump it's just another variation of "I'm no fan of Trump but..." It's called concern trolling and you're not fooling anybody. You kind of give yourself away when you write that "He only looks good when comparing him to his enemies." You mean the people who think he's a "moron, scumbag and a creep"?

Edited November 1, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[amvet]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Wow. Are you saying that the Steele Dossier was a product of the Russian government?

And as for your dislike of Trump it's just another variation of "I'm no fan of Trump but..." It's called concern trolling and you're not fooling anybody. You kind of give yourself away when you write that "He only looks good when comparing him to his enemies." You mean the people who think he's a "moron, scumbag and a creep"?

His friends and employees like Secretary of State call him a moron.  Of course the Steele Dossier was a product of Russia.  It is all about Russia.  Did you think it was about Trump in Ohio?  

[ilostmypassword]

5 minutes ago, amvet said:

His friends and employees like Secretary of State call him a moron.  Of course the Steele Dossier was a product of Russia.  It is all about Russia.  Did you think it was about Trump in Ohio?  

This is just flat out nuts. If I write a biograpy of say Bill Gates, that makes it a product of Bill Gates? This is ludicrous.  A product is something that is produced by someone or something.  To the minds of most people, the product belongs to the person or organization that made it. You must have some very strange ideas about copyright law.

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, amvet said:

Where in any indictments (that's what this thread is about) does it say the Trump organization wanted any dirt from the Kremlin?  Is it true that Podesta tried to get dirt on Trump from the Russian government (Steele dossier)?  I hope that will come out but really doubt it. 

 

Trump is not my hero.  I think he is a moron, scumbag and a creep.  He only looks good when comparing him to his enemies. 

YOU were the one talking about dirt on the clintons <deleted>. Can you stop trolling!

 

5 hours ago, amvet said:

The Russians told him they had the Clinton emails she trashed and didn't tell the FBI about and they contained a lot of dirt.  Trump had asked the Russians publicly to try and find those emails and apparently they had and they contained a bunch of dirt.  But Papadopoulos couldn't interest the Trump organization in the dirt so it died there.

DO NOT answer please, go and troll someone else.

[craigt3365]

12 hours ago, punchjudy said:

the USA has been meddling in russian elections since the fall of communism.

Really?  Please post a credible link here that supports this.  Even if partially true, nothing on the scale we're seeing now. 

 

The dots are getting even more connected.  Trump did hear about the Putin connection.  Here's proof.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/01/politics/trump-putin-meeting/index.html

Quote

Trump didn't dismiss idea when foreign policy adviser suggested setting up Putin meeting

 

[Scott]

Post removed.

 

The thread isn't about how many elections the US has interfered with.  

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

17 hours ago, retarius said:

Yes pretty funny stuff.....the media panties are in a bunch. Last time I looked Ukraine is 'Russia-linked' as it shares a border with Russia and therefore it is legitimate for the press to splash headlines saying "Manafort arrested in Trump Russia probe". All it takes is for people to read the indictment to see that this is no remotely related to the Russia probe. The alleged offenses took place in 2012/3 and are related to Ukraine. Willful blindness brought on by hatred of all things Trump. I have no love for Trump and probably unlike the vast majority of readers I actually worked with the man in 1992, but I do like to see some real concrete evidence and not using weasel words like Russia-linked to imply much more than it means in practice ie that Trump once ordered Russian dressing on his salad.

Have a look here for your Russian connection:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/michael-flynn-followed-russian-troll-accounts-pushed-their-messages-in-days-before-election/ar-AAukKFK?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

[craigt3365]

27 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Have a look here for your Russian connection:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/michael-flynn-followed-russian-troll-accounts-pushed-their-messages-in-days-before-election/ar-AAukKFK?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

Wow.  Amazing stuff.  Thanks for sharing.  Shows the dangers of propaganda and fake news.

[habanero]

If they have to stretch this much to find a reason to charge someone, then this whole investigation looks like the witch hunt Trump says it is.

Here's what the Manafort indictment comes down to: It's not that he broke the law by repping for parties in foreign countries. It's not illegal to do that. And he wasn't acting as an agent of some sort of hostile power such that issues like treason would come into play. His business activities were legal, but he was supposed to fill out paperwork to register as a foreign agent. He allegedly didn't do that, so he was apparently in violation of the law.

But usually, when the Justice Department finds someone to be guilty of this particular violation, they don't prosecute. They just tell them to get it taken care of.

Why did Mueller decide to indict in this case? Probably because special counsels need a head to make the roll so he can justify the investigation, particularly in light of what we learned last week about Fusion GPS and Uranium One, not to mention the FBI's foot-dragging on the latter issue when Mueller was still the director.

So Manafort was indicted, and former U.S. Attorney Andrew McCarthy thinks the big picture is looking pretty good for Donald Trump:

[CaptHaddock]

2 minutes ago, habanero said:

If they have to stretch this much to find a reason to charge someone, then this whole investigation looks like the witch hunt Trump says it is.

Here's what the Manafort indictment comes down to: It's not that he broke the law by repping for parties in foreign countries. It's not illegal to do that. And he wasn't acting as an agent of some sort of hostile power such that issues like treason would come into play. His business activities were legal, but he was supposed to fill out paperwork to register as a foreign agent. He allegedly didn't do that, so he was apparently in violation of the law.

But usually, when the Justice Department finds someone to be guilty of this particular violation, they don't prosecute. They just tell them to get it taken care of.

Why did Mueller decide to indict in this case? Probably because special counsels need a head to make the roll so he can justify the investigation, particularly in light of what we learned last week about Fusion GPS and Uranium One, not to mention the FBI's foot-dragging on the latter issue when Mueller was still the director.

So Manafort was indicted, and former U.S. Attorney Andrew McCarthy thinks the big picture is looking pretty good for Donald Trump:

You have missed the point of Mueller's releases on Monday.  The Papadopoulos indictment and guilty plea to the minimal charge of lying to a federal agent is the carrot available to those who cooperate.  The stick, for those who do not cooperate, is to be charged with financial crimes going back as far as the statute of limitations permits as well as prosecution under such obscure laws as the Foreign Agent Registration Act, a law under which only about a half dozen prosecutions have taken place in the last fifty years.  In Manafort's case the nub is massive tax evasion up to as much as seventy-five million dollars worth.

 

Manafort, a wealthy sixty-four year old, may very well crack if he is indeed tried, found guilty, and sentenced to what will amount to the rest of his life in prison.  However, his strategy was made clear by his lawyer who, stopping to speak briefly to the assembled newsmen outside the FBI field office, said little about Manafort, choosing instead to emphasize Trump's supposed innocence.  So, Manafort is counting on a pardon from Trump.  However, it is likely that he will also be prosecuted in both Virginia and New York, which would be beyond the reach of such a pardon. 

 

So, Mueller's strategy in these initial indictments is not now to show his hand vis-a-vis Trump.  Tha'ts the endgame.  Right now he is just threatening the all the underlings, with carrot and stick, if they do not come forward to help him build his case against the kingpin.  There is nothing innovative here, but it works, cf. Nixon, Richard.

[ilostmypassword]

22 minutes ago, habanero said:

If they have to stretch this much to find a reason to charge someone, then this whole investigation looks like the witch hunt Trump says it is.

Here's what the Manafort indictment comes down to: It's not that he broke the law by repping for parties in foreign countries. It's not illegal to do that. And he wasn't acting as an agent of some sort of hostile power such that issues like treason would come into play. His business activities were legal, but he was supposed to fill out paperwork to register as a foreign agent. He allegedly didn't do that, so he was apparently in violation of the law.

But usually, when the Justice Department finds someone to be guilty of this particular violation, they don't prosecute. They just tell them to get it taken care of.

Why did Mueller decide to indict in this case? Probably because special counsels need a head to make the roll so he can justify the investigation, particularly in light of what we learned last week about Fusion GPS and Uranium One, not to mention the FBI's foot-dragging on the latter issue when Mueller was still the director.

So Manafort was indicted, and former U.S. Attorney Andrew McCarthy thinks the big picture is looking pretty good for Donald Trump:

Are you familiar with the facts at all? Manafort was hiding massive amounts of income by opening foreign bank accounts and not reporting them to the IRS. Some of these accounts were listed in the names of nominees even though Manafort in fact controlled them. I got news for you: income tax evasion is a crime. And if you don't believe that, hold a seance and get confirmation of that from Al Capone.

[habanero]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

Are you familiar with the facts at all? Manafort was hiding massive amounts of income by opening foreign bank accounts and not reporting them to the IRS. Some of these accounts were listed in the names of nominees even though Manafort in fact controlled them. I got news for you: income tax evasion is a crime. And if you don't believe that, hold a seance and get confirmation of that from Al Capone.

Yes, you are correct. But, this was all before Trump was running for president. 

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, habanero said:

Yes, you are correct. But, this was all before Trump was running for president. 

So Manafort should be let off then? Cosby, guilty of sexual assault many years ago - hang him, Weinstein only alleged and not even charged - hang him. Anyone to do with Trump no matter what his crimes over how long - it's unfair to charge him, let him go, its a witch hunt.

 

When you do something to invite the feds in your door for one crime do not be surprised when they drag up everything else.

 

I have news for you. Trump may well not go down for anything to do with Russia, but now the feds are in, he will go down for money laundering and tax evasion maybe to the tune of hundreds of millions. Do you think he should be given a free pass? Trump was a complete a**hole to the FBI, intel community and Comey, and they will have their day. Unlike every member of the press corps (other than Fox and Breitbart) who should turn their backs on POTUS any time he is nearby and switch off their cameras, the Feds will make him pay for what he did to them. Non of the charges will be fabricated, they will be real and they will charge him with EVERYTHING they can even down to unpaid parking fines. I wouldn't be surprised if Mueller didn't send people to interview the woman who claims she was raped as a 13 year old. Trump will sink like a brick in water and he will drag his little piggies down with him. The only Trumps this could be ok for are Melania and that unfortunate son they have. The only thing Trump will be running for in 2020 will be his hour in the exercise yard. Lock him up, lock him up!

Edited November 2, 2017 by Andaman Al

[selftaopath]

Russia says.... Trump says..... LOL would you believe either? LOL oh I hope not. I don't and NEVER will.

[habanero]

56 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

So Manafort should be let off then? Cosby, guilty of sexual assault many years ago - hang him, Weinstein only alleged and not even charged - hang him. Anyone to do with Trump no matter what his crimes over how long - it's unfair to charge him, let him go, its a witch hunt.

 

When you do something to invite the feds in your door for one crime do not be surprised when they drag up everything else.

 

I have news for you. Trump may well not go down for anything to do with Russia, but now the feds are in, he will go down for money laundering and tax evasion maybe to the tune of hundreds of millions. Do you think he should be given a free pass? Trump was a complete a**hole to the FBI, intel community and Comey, and they will have their day. Unlike every member of the press corps (other than Fox and Breitbart) who should turn their backs on POTUS any time he is nearby and switch off their cameras, the Feds will make him pay for what he did to them. Non of the charges will be fabricated, they will be real and they will charge him with EVERYTHING they can even down to unpaid parking fines. I wouldn't be surprised if Mueller didn't send people to interview the woman who claims she was raped as a 13 year old. Trump will sink like a brick in water and he will drag his little piggies down with him. The only Trumps this could be ok for are Melania and that unfortunate son they have. The only thing Trump will be running for in 2020 will be his hour in the exercise yard. Lock him up, lock him up!

I have said, nothing of the sort. I also could care less about Manafort. Just saying that a lot of this info is before any of the campaignings even started.  You are foolish if you think Trump will go down for tax evasion or money laundering. Trump probably holds the record for having his taxes audited by the IRS. 

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, habanero said:

Trump probably holds the record for having his taxes audited by the IRS. 

And very soon it will be shown how he has lied to the IRS. Watch this space !

[craigt3365]

14 hours ago, habanero said:

I have said, nothing of the sort. I also could care less about Manafort. Just saying that a lot of this info is before any of the campaignings even started.  You are foolish if you think Trump will go down for tax evasion or money laundering. Trump probably holds the record for having his taxes audited by the IRS. 

Trump's business dealing are dodgy as hell.  He's done business with foreigners who are now in jail, or turned state's evidence.  The list is soooo long.  He could very well get caught up by the IRS.  Taxes are not easy, as such, easy to make a slip up.