A century on, UK's Jewish homeland declaration stirs celebration and mourning in Middle East

[ilostmypassword]

43 minutes ago, Rancid said:

If you are Jewish it is a case for celebration, however regardless of who is to blame, Israels formation has been followed by endless wars, millions dead and the world now a terrorist planet, as such hard to find reason to celebrate for non Jews.

Nice anti-semitic formulation.

[Thorgal]

Nice anti-semitic formulation.

From OP:

"The contested declaration is at the root of the Israeli-Palestinian territorial conflict which, after several wars and decades of international diplomacy, remains unsettled."


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[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

From OP:

"The contested declaration is at the root of the Israeli-Palestinian territorial conflict which, after several wars and decades of international diplomacy, remains unsettled."


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Yes...and? That doesn't make it into the Jews vs. Rest of the World thing.

 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Morch

[JingerBen]

1 hour ago, Rancid said:

If you are Jewish it is a case for celebration, however regardless of who is to blame, Israels formation has been followed by endless wars, millions dead and the world now a terrorist planet, as such hard to find reason to celebrate for non Jews.

 

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

Nice anti-semitic formulation.

Instead of an ad hominem attack, why don't you refute the charges in his post?

The Balfour Declaration was a statement of support by the British government for  "...the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Balfour initiated a policy of British support for Israel which continues to this day, to the detriment of the occupied Palestinians of the West Bank and the five million Palestinian refugees living in horrible conditions around the Middle East, including Israel-besieged Gaza.

As Ilan Pappe has said:  "Most Zionists don't believe that God exists but they do believe that he promised them Palestine."

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, JingerBen said:

 

Instead of an ad hominem attack, why don't you refute the charges in his post?

The Balfour Declaration was a statement of support by the British government for  "...the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Balfour initiated a policy of British support for Israel which continues to this day, to the detriment of the occupied Palestinians of the West Bank and the five million Palestinian refugees living in horrible conditions around the Middle East, including Israel-besieged Gaza.

As Ilan Pappe has said:  "Most Zionists don't believe that God exists but they do believe that he promised them Palestine."

 

ad hominem "attack" how?

 

Commenting on the the Balfour Deceleration and it's effects, is one thing. Tying it into a Jews vs. The World thing is another. Should be quite clear considering your last line (regardless if one takes Pappe seriously).

[ilostmypassword]

37 minutes ago, JingerBen said:

 

Instead of an ad hominem attack, why don't you refute the charges in his post?

The Balfour Declaration was a statement of support by the British government for  "...the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Balfour initiated a policy of British support for Israel which continues to this day, to the detriment of the occupied Palestinians of the West Bank and the five million Palestinian refugees living in horrible conditions around the Middle East, including Israel-besieged Gaza.

As Ilan Pappe has said:  "Most Zionists don't believe that God exists but they do believe that he promised them Palestine."

Because he conflated Jews with Israel. Israel is a nation. All Jews are not Israelis. Not all Jews are supporters of Israel.

[JingerBen]

The Balfour Declaration also marked the arrival of the Zionist lobby in international affairs.  That amorphous coalition that is called the Israel lobby or the Jewish lobby announced its presence with the Balfour promise of 1917.

It is the one element of the Balfour history that will not be anatomized in the press these days because it touches on a delicate issue - Jewish influence - which is widely thought to be an anti-Semitic idea.

But no history of Balfour is complete without understanding Zionist agency in producing this colonial entitlement.

So if we blame the British for the Balfour Declaration, we ought to blame the Zionist lobby as well.

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, JingerBen said:

The Balfour Declaration also marked the arrival of the Zionist lobby in international affairs.  That amorphous coalition that is called the Israel lobby or the Jewish lobby announced its presence with the Balfour promise of 1917.

It is the one element of the Balfour history that will not be anatomized in the press these days because it touches on a delicate issue - Jewish influence - which is widely thought to be an anti-Semitic idea.

But no history of Balfour is complete without understanding Zionist agency in producing this colonial entitlement.

So if we blame the British for the Balfour Declaration, we ought to blame the Zionist lobby as well.

Zionism /= Judaism. Zionists and Jews are not the same thing.

[Enoon]

On 11/2/2017 at 8:16 AM, Orton Rd said:

Time for the Muslims to put their hate aside and accept Israel

 

They didn't accept the Crusader States of the middle ages (which existed for about 150 years) why should they accept this new (ironically, given the attitude of the crusaders to jews) 20th century crusader state, a mere 69 years old?

 

It's only the US that keeps Israel afloat (as the medieval monarchies of europe and the papacy kept the crusaders afloat) and its clock is ticking.

 

The truth is that time is on the Palestinians side.......they only need to endure.

 

 

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

They didn't accept the Crusader States of the middle ages (which existed for about 150 years) why should they accept this new (ironically, given the attitude of the crusaders to jews) 20th century crusader state, a mere 69 years old?

 

It's only the US that keeps Israel afloat (as the medieval monarchies of europe and the papacy kept the crusaders afloat) and its clock is ticking.

 

The truth is that time is on the Palestinians side.......they only need to endure.

 

 

 

And yet, Israel does have peace agreements in place with two of its neighbors (and former enemies). All of Israel's immediate neighbors depend, to one degree or another on economic and military support by outside forces.

 

As for "time being on the Palestinians' side" - well, posters on this forum claiming to support them often oscillate between this view and hysterical assertions that some nefarious doom is right behind the corner and calls for things to be addressed presently.

[JingerBen]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Zionism /= Judaism. Zionists and Jews are not the same thing.

Good point... you're quite right.

What most definitely played a role in the realization of the Balfour Declaration is Christian Zionism.

This is a literal belief in the biblical prophecy that the Jews must return to their ancestral home in order for the Second Coming of Christ to occur.

Christian Zionism was born in Britain and has been widely influential there. British leaders such as Lord Balfour, Herbert Samuel, Lloyd George and others [including much earlier Lord Shaftsbury] mingled British imperialism with their belief in the need to restore the Jews to their home as a prerequisite to the biblical prophecy.

[Credo]

Does the existence of Israel have anything to do with the hatred and persecution they faced in pre-WWII Europe?    It seems to me that all the countries of Europe were more than happy to have them shipped off to the ME.   

 

As far as the Israeli/Jewish lobby, how is that different from what nearly every country in the world does?

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, Credo said:

Does the existence of Israel have anything to do with the hatred and persecution they faced in pre-WWII Europe?  
...

Obviously. No secret about that. The ideology developed with the theory that life for the Jews in the diaspora just wasn't working out based on history. 

[Morch]

The Balfour Deceleration does not, however, refer to a Jewish state or even clearly tackles sovereignty. Notably, the "national home" phrase is ambiguous and, unless mistaken, was unprecedented at the time. Considering that Balfour's ideas revolved around preserving (and perhaps, expanding) the framework of the Empire, promoting full independence would have been anathema to his stance. In a similar fashion, Zionist leadership of the day was initially divided on the issue of sovereignty. The faction pushing forward the interpretation of full independence, can be identified as the precursor of the modern Israeli political right wing. Both British and Zionist views were transformed over time, in a large part due to the outcome of WWII - which saw the British Empire swiftly dismantled.