The time when America stopped being great

[Grouse]

12 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

About as much as you do.  And the Secret Service ain't the CIA! LOL

OK, true if you want to be pedantic but to non American general readers they are synonymous

 

Maybe you would like to compare and contrast their roles and history and include the NSA while you're at it

 

thanks!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secret_Service

 

 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Grouse

[craigt3365]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

OK, true if you want to be pedantic but to non American general readers they are synonymous

 

Maybe you would like to compare and contrast their roles and history and include the NSA while you're at it

 

thanks!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secret_Service

 

 

Now you're really going off topic.  NSA?  Good gosh....

[zydeco]

26 minutes ago, Grouse said:

OK, true if you want to be pedantic but to non American general readers they are synonymous

 

Maybe you would like to compare and contrast their roles and history and include the NSA while you're at it

 

thanks!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secret_Service

 

 

Nothing pedantic about it. The Secret Service works domestically. The CIA is prohibited from working domestically.

[lannarebirth]

4 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Nothing pedantic about it. The Secret Service works domestically. The CIA is prohibited from working domestically.

The Secret Service works overseas if their mission takes them there. I'm not sure how the Secret Service became conflated with the CIA in this thread. They are two diffent agencies working in two different departments whose missions are entirely different.

[Kasset Tak]

On 11/3/2017 at 4:16 PM, craigt3365 said:

What country doesn't do things primarily when it suits their interests? US secret service plots to overthrow governments?  Talk about propaganda.  You believe that?

 

The US Secret Service's main job is protection for the president. LOL.

 

You watch too many movies.

Maybe non the Secret Service but CIA has been involved in more than one assassination of statesmen and support of dictators and so on. 

Just look at Saddam Hussein, US (CIA) said that he had WMD's and yes, he did... US was the country that sold them to him from the beginning!
US (CIA) blame Al-Qaeda for the 9-11attack but it was US (and CIA) that armed the Afghan mujahedin that later became Al-Qaeda.
Manuel Noriega, put in power by CIA and ousted by the US invasion of Panama after he stopped co-operating with US...

So don't be an ignorant American and learn your history instead!

[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, Kasset Tak said:

Maybe non the Secret Service but CIA has been involved in more than one assassination of statesmen and support of dictators and so on. 

Just look at Saddam Hussein, US (CIA) said that he had WMD's and yes, he did... US was the country that sold them to him from the beginning!
US (CIA) blame Al-Qaeda for the 9-11attack but it was US (and CIA) that armed the Afghan mujahedin that later became Al-Qaeda.
Manuel Noriega, put in power by CIA and ousted by the US invasion of Panama after he stopped co-operating with US...

So don't be an ignorant American and learn your history instead!

Don't be an ignorant American?  I'm well aware of what the CIA has done and have discussed this in a variety of posts.  I don't deny this.

 

Don't be an ignorant poster.

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, Kasset Tak said:

Maybe non the Secret Service but CIA has been involved in more than one assassination of statesmen and support of dictators and so on. 

Just look at Saddam Hussein, US (CIA) said that he had WMD's and yes, he did... US was the country that sold them to him from the beginning!
US (CIA) blame Al-Qaeda for the 9-11attack but it was US (and CIA) that armed the Afghan mujahedin that later became Al-Qaeda.
Manuel Noriega, put in power by CIA and ousted by the US invasion of Panama after he stopped co-operating with US...

So don't be an ignorant American and learn your history instead!

What WMDs did the USA sell to Assad

And it's true that the CIA did ultimately come around to claiming that Saddam had WMDs. But that was only after enormous pressure was put on them by senior members of the Bush Adminstration. Before that, they were far more equivocal in their evaluations.

It's true that the USA did arm the mujahadeen to battle the Soviets.  But it was the Soviets who invaded Afghanistan. The big mistake was for the Reagan administration to take the Saudis' advice on whom to support. 

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

The Secret Service works overseas if their mission takes them there. I'm not sure how the Secret Service became conflated with the CIA in this thread. They are two diffent agencies working in two different departments whose missions are entirely different.

Some poster way back used the phrase secret service meaning the CIA (and probably NSA) but not The Secret Service. 

 

In in the U.K.: secret intelligence service/ MI6/ MI5/ Special Branch/ GCHQ all with deliberately misleading names!

 

But back on topic. The CIA has not left the USA basking in good will from the rest of the world. Maybe they should rename it the CUA?

[midas]

On 11/3/2017 at 4:44 PM, craigt3365 said:

Agreed.  Saying the Secret Service overthrows governments. Too funny...

He simply got his agencies wrong. But you can't deny the CIA does this kind of thing and a lot of other nefarious activities

[ilostmypassword]

On 11/3/2017 at 8:25 PM, Skeptic7 said:

WRONG! Pure BS. Here's a very short, very modern list of "homegrown" in no particular order...

 

Jeff Bezos, Larry Page, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Steve Case, Steve Wozniak, Mark Zuckerberg, Andy Rubin, Michael Dell, Tim Cook, Paul Allen, Larry Ellison, Marc Randolph, Reed Hastings, Michael Morhaime, Jimmy Wales, John Warnock, Charles Geschke

 

...and the list goes on and on 

"In the fall of 2015, about 55 percent of all graduate students in mathematics, computer sciences and engineering were from abroad, according to a survey by the Council of Graduate Schools and the Graduate Record Examinations Board.

The dearth of Americans is even more pronounced in hot STEM fields like computer science, which serve as talent pipelines for the likes of Google, Amazon, Facebook and Microsoft: About 64 percent of doctoral candidates and almost 68 percent in master’s programs last year were international students, according to an annual survey of American and Canadian universities by the Computing Research Association. "

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/education/edlife/american-graduate-student-stem.html

Edited November 5, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[lannarebirth]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

In the fall of 2015, about 55 percent of all graduate students in mathematics, computer sciences and engineering were from abroad, according to a survey by the Council of Graduate Schools and the Graduate Record Examinations Board.

The dearth of Americans is even more pronounced in hot STEM fields like computer science, which serve as talent pipelines for the likes of Google, Amazon, Facebook and Microsoft: About 64 percent of doctoral candidates and almost 68 percent in master’s programs last year were international students, according to an annual survey of American and Canadian universities by the Computing Research Association. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/education/edlife/american-graduate-student-stem.html

 

It's an elegant scam. The university is incentivized to take foreiners for the triple tuition rate while corporations can seek H1B applicants to drive salaries down and hold employees hostage to their immigration status.

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

It's an elegant scam. The university is incentivized to take foreiners for the triple tuition rate while corporations can seek H1B applicants to drive salaries down and hold employees hostage to their immigration status.

The increased tuition is part of it. But not that big a part. There just isn't so much of an incentive for Americans to go to graduate school.

"In 1994, only about 40 percent of students who were enrolled in computer science Ph.D. programs were from outside the country, according to the Computing Research Association survey.

As the economy improved, the percentage of Americans in graduate programs dropped. “Going to grad school became less of a priority for so many students,” said Stuart Zweben, co-author of the survey and professor emeritus of computer science and engineering at Ohio State University. "

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/education/edlife/american-graduate-student-stem.html

[craigt3365]

9 hours ago, midas said:

He simply got his agencies wrong. But you can't deny the CIA does this kind of thing and a lot of other nefarious activities

Missed my point.  Many chastise the US for a variety of things, but in the end, don't really know the details nor the history.  Just bash.  Like in the thread about the American in Zimbabwe.  Just because American was in the title, all the US haters came out with a variety of conspiracy theories.  None of which were even remotely substantiated by the article.

 

I've never denied the CIA does those things.  Again, no different than other major powers around the globe.  Sadly....

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

The increased tuition is part of it. But not that big a part. There just isn't so much of an incentive for Americans to go to graduate school.

"In 1994, only about 40 percent of students who were enrolled in computer science Ph.D. programs were from outside the country, according to the Computing Research Association survey.

As the economy improved, the percentage of Americans in graduate programs dropped. “Going to grad school became less of a priority for so many students,” said Stuart Zweben, co-author of the survey and professor emeritus of computer science and engineering at Ohio State University. "

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/education/edlife/american-graduate-student-stem.html

I wouldn't read too much into this.  Universities in places like the UK, Europe and the US are drawing foreign students in droves.  Because they don't have the same level of universities in their home countries.  Makes sense.  From your article:

Quote

Many factors contribute to the gap, but a major one is the booming job market in technology. For the most part, Americans don’t see the need for an advanced degree when there are so many professional opportunities waiting for them. For some, the price is just too high when they have so much student debt already.

 

Honestly, I don't think my master's helped me out one bit.  MBA.  I loved the education, but professionally, it didn't help me.  And was massively expensive.

[Scott]

Troll post reported and removed.

 

[impulse]

Listen to a video/audio lecture by Richard White called "Capitalism Hits the Fan".

 

That explains it clearly in extremely easy to understand language.

 

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

Listen to a video/audio lecture by Richard White called "Capitalism Hits the Fan".

 

That explains it clearly in extremely easy to understand language.

 

And what's the alternative?  The global economy has rocked the past 50 years.  Even with all the problems, it's the best option we have.

[impulse]

Just now, craigt3365 said:

And what's the alternative?  The global economy has rocked the past 50 years.  Even with all the problems, it's the best option we have.

 

You have to listen to the whole lecture.  It's not anti-capitalist as much as anti- cronyist.

 

The USA was at its peak when the 1% were paying 90% incremental taxes on everything above an obscene amount of income (a punishment imposed by FDR for them causing the Great Depression).  

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

You have to listen to the whole lecture.  It's not anti-capitalist as much as anti- cronyist.

 

The USA was at its peak when the 1% were paying 90% incremental taxes on everything above an obscene amount of income (a punishment imposed by FDR for them causing the Great Depression).  

A problem for sure.  But much worse in most other countries.  At least the US has a very good shadow government.  The free press.

[buick]

On 11/4/2017 at 4:58 AM, attrayant said:

No, it's not really that hard.  Some people just need to improve their vocabulary.

 

 

i'm sorry i'm not clever enough to find a cartoon to show you the other side.  but clearly you prefer political correctness.  enjoy it because it has arrived !!!!

[lannarebirth]

4 minutes ago, buick said:

 

i'm sorry i'm not clever enough to find a cartoon to show you the other side.  but clearly you prefer political correctness.  enjoy it because it has arrived !!!!

 

I would much rather have people tell me exactly what they think or believe. It helps give me insight as to how I should regard them and maybe even change their mind, and if not, find common ground. Politically imposed speech is repressive and most things that are repressed find their way to the surface in some other way. Perhaps a much more dangerous way.

[Monomial]

32 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

And what's the alternative?  The global economy has rocked the past 50 years.  Even with all the problems, it's the best option we have.

 

There is no justification for thinking capitalism is the best option we have, other than a religious dogma that says it has to be. It is the one espoused by the empire of the day and certainly the one desired by those that are benefitting from it, but there are hundreds of other options out there. And only 1 of those options is socialism.

 

How about the late king's idea of a "sufficiency economy". How about distributism? Only the seive of the cold war forced everyone into a binary choice between capitalism and socialism.  There are an infinite number of 3rd options that are more suitable for the current world where growth is killing us. Capitalism isn't the best option for an economy any more than a cancerous tumor is the best option for weight gain. But those in charge will never accept that the 200 year orgy of growth is over.

 

 

[lannarebirth]

Unbridled Capitalism is the best system ever, just so long as Socialism is around to bail it out.

[buick]

29 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

Politically imposed speech

i'd go so far to say the current climate of politically imposed speech is 'imposed' unequally.  as in a white man is held to a much higher standard than a minority.  when it is applied equally, i might be inclined to follow it.  but i doubt that will happen anytime soon in today's america. 

[punchjudy]

it's a country of extremes.

 

a lot of good and a lot of bad

[mikebike]

43 minutes ago, punchjudy said:

it's a country of extremes.

 

a lot of good and a lot of bad

Of course. And good actors on both sides. Nothing to see here. Move along. 

 

Its not as though the US has a system to change laws and make things better for their populace... ya know, keep reducing the bad and increasing the good... a more perfect union and all that!! Nah - just accept the status quo!!

[impulse]

3 hours ago, Monomial said:

How about the late king's idea of a "sufficiency economy". How about distributism? Only the seive of the cold war forced everyone into a binary choice between capitalism and socialism.

 

And even that was a false choice, since the real fight was (should have been?) between democracy and totalitarianism.  Communism/socialism got a bad rap because it was the false utopia held out by the Bolsheviks and the Maoists to gain popular support, then they pretty much abandoned to cronyism once they had all the guns. 

 

It would be interesting to see an honest democratic run country with a socialist economic system.  Some of the Euro countries come close, but certainly none in the Stalin/ Mao spheres.

[mikebike]

You mean like the nordic countries, and possibly France? It is not as though democratic socialism is a theory. Why would any enlightened administration follow Stalin or Mao when there are much better concrete examples in the west?

 

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, mikebike said:

You mean like the nordic countries, and possibly France? It is not as though democratic socialism is a theory. Why would any enlightened administration follow Stalin or Mao when there are much better concrete examples in the west?

 

And yet although the Nordic countries still 'sort of' have socialist values,  they still have to contend with 'globalism' and globalism is winning the fight as the division between rich and poor becomes ever more pronounced in those countries too.

 

But I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[Skeptic7]

11 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

"In the fall of 2015, about 55 percent of all graduate students in mathematics, computer sciences and engineering were from abroad, according to a survey by the Council of Graduate Schools and the Graduate Record Examinations Board.

The dearth of Americans is even more pronounced in hot STEM fields like computer science, which serve as talent pipelines for the likes of Google, Amazon, Facebook and Microsoft: About 64 percent of doctoral candidates and almost 68 percent in master’s programs last year were international students, according to an annual survey of American and Canadian universities by the Computing Research Association. "

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/education/edlife/american-graduate-student-stem.html

OK...Correction...Home grown Americanos come up with these great ideas and create these indispensable, world leading companies, while the hired help comes from abroad. 

 

But seriously, good info...however in the post replied to, jobwolf stated 'most great inventors of IT systems' were imported. That was the part being addressed...but I still stand corrected as his post was only partial BS...not PURE BS. 

 

And why do so many foreign students flock to The USA for higher learning? Because it has the most top universities too.