SURVEY: Are men getting shafted?

[Scott]

In the past few weeks a number of high profile cases of sexual harassment and a few with more serious charges.   Do you believe that men in general are facing an unwarranted backlash in Western countries?  

 

Please feel free to leave a comment.

 

For further reading:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[blazes]

Another question could have been asked in the survey:

 

To what extent is this about celebrities (mostly female) using sexual power to get to the top?

[lannarebirth]

I'm all for dirtbags getting their comeuppance but I do find it disturbing that people can be villified strictly on the basis of social media comments with no charges being filed and no lawful due process applied to the alleged behaviour. I am encouraged to see some law enforcement agencies actually building cases they intend to prosecute. That seems more appropriate to me.

[attrayant]

Curious as to why Trump's sexual assault allegations were left out of the OP.  

 

The allegations against Weinstein and Trump are strikingly similar. Why have the outcomes been so different?

 

Quote

Since the allegations against Weinstein became public earlier this month, many have noted the similarities with Trump: two powerful men, both repeatedly accused of using their power and fame and wealth to prey on women sexually. One big difference, though, as some of Trump’s accusers have pointed out, is that while Weinstein has been ousted from his company and denounced by former friends, Trump is president of the United States, and enjoys the continued backing of his party and political allies.

 

[Jingthing]

It's a mixed bag.

Overall, I think this is a positive step.

It will mean that more people that have been behaving that way or would behave that way will think twice before trying it now.

On the other hand, there are elements of a witch hunt going on. 

For example, Daddy Bush. I don't think it's fair to put a spunky old man in a wheelchair patting nurse's butts in the same league as serious offenders like Spacey, O'Reilly, Weinstein, and trump.

[otherstuff1957]

I voted yes, BUT...  there is a big difference between a powerful scumbag using his position to prey upon women and someone's drunken escapades that took place years or even decades ago.

 

[Dagnabbit]

Curious as to why Trump's sexual assault allegations were left out of the OP.  
 
The allegations against Weinstein and Trump are strikingly similar. Why have the outcomes been so different?
 

Since the allegations against Weinstein became public earlier this month, many have noted the similarities with Trump: two powerful men, both repeatedly accused of using their power and fame and wealth to prey on women sexually. One big difference, though, as some of Trump’s accusers have pointed out, is that while Weinstein has been ousted from his company and denounced by former friends, Trump is president of the United States, and enjoys the continued backing of his party and political allies.

 
Because its got bugger all to do with him.

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[Samui Bodoh]

Are men facing an unwarranted backlash? Nah, it is warranted. We had it easy for a looooong time.

 

However, there needs to be some mitigating factors considered;

 

When did the events in question occur? It isn't right to adjudicate a person's action based on current mores. Was the offence an offence when it occurred? 

Was it simply bad manners/rudeness or harrassment? One person's rudeness is another's harassment.

Is there some sort of process to decide what is/was bad and what was/is not?

 

Things have changed drastically in my lifetime, and changed for the better. And if people like Harvey Weinstein are still out there being a butt-hole, then throw the book at them. AFTER due process and consideration.

Neither men nor women deserve to be dumped on like we have been reading about for the last while. 

 

Is it really that difficult to treat everyone with respect?

[blazes]

4 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Are men facing an unwarranted backlash? Nah, it is warranted. We had it easy for a looooong time.

 

However, there needs to be some mitigating factors considered;

 

When did the events in question occur? It isn't right to adjudicate a person's action based on current mores. Was the offence an offence when it occurred? 

Was it simply bad manners/rudeness or harrassment? One person's rudeness is another's harassment.

Is there some sort of process to decide what is/was bad and what was/is not?

 

Things have changed drastically in my lifetime, and changed for the better. And if people like Harvey Weinstein are still out there being a butt-hole, then throw the book at them. AFTER due process and consideration.

Neither men nor women deserve to be dumped on like we have been reading about for the last while. 

 

Is it really that difficult to treat everyone with respect?

 

It's not easy to have respect when some feminazis call young white men (or is it simply just young men?) as "rapists-in-waiting."

[boomerangutang]

I didn't vote because it's too varied an issue.

 

Most men and women have strong sexual urges.  Women are brought up to suppress their sexual urges, more so, on average, than men.   Sometimes women (or gay men) like advances, sometimes they don't. 

 

                 Some of the most successful male actors & musicians, in regards to sexual conquests, are:  Warren Beatty, Rod Stewart, and Gene Simmons of Kiss.  Two of the most successful sports stars in that dept, are Wilt Chamberlain and Jim Brown   Both Wilt and the Simmons claim to have seduced over 6,000 each.   Simmons claims to have photos of every one, and most of 'em are early teens.

 

I don't think the Hoffman's, or Bush Sr allegations are as serious as Trump's, Ailes' or O'Reilley's, or Weinstein's. 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2017 by boomerangutang

[ilostmypassword]

18 minutes ago, Dagnabbit said:

 
Because its got bugger all to do with him.

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Because it only matter if it's Hollywood types doing the molesting?

[boomerangutang]

11 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Is it really that difficult to treat everyone with respect?

You know the expression:  'The early bird gets the first worm'

 

Here's a variation:  The most aggressive guys get the most pussy.

[Caps]

Far too many people jumping on the band wagon, if it wasnt important enough to mention/tell authorities 30, 20, 10 years ago then why does it all of a sudden become so important now? 

I am all for people getting just desserts if found guilty and convicted but the 'System' makes it too easy for people to cry foul and then the accused person has their life ruined before its even gone to court.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Caps

[darksidedog]

I think everyone, everywhere has received unwanted sexual advances more than once and had advances of their own rebuffed. If everyone filed complaints about all of them, most of the population would be facing charges.

Times and attitudes have changed, as has the law to keep pace. There is obviously a big difference between an attempted grope and rape, yet most of these allegations that seem to cross the spectrum in nature, all seem to be being thrown into the "sexual predator" box.

Any investigations that reveal criminal behaviour, should go through due process, but people having their lives ruined from social media chat, without seeing evidence, is premature and wrong.

[AGareth2]

some cases such as the 14 year old boy are different

from an adult allowing a powerful pervert to get away with sexual assault in order to advance your career 

the allegations of rape should be taken to court

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, AGareth2 said:

some cases such as the 14 year old boy are different

from an adult allowing a powerful pervert to get away with sexual assault in order to advance your career 

the allegations of rape should be taken to court

Don't you think that they should first be investigated?

[AGareth2]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

Don't you think that they should first be investigated?

in the case of the 14 year old most certainly

by the police

[eddysmit]

17 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

I think everyone, everywhere has received unwanted sexual advances more than once and had advances of their own rebuffed. If everyone filed complaints about all of them, most of the population would be facing charges.

Times and attitudes have changed, as has the law to keep pace. There is obviously a big difference between an attempted grope and rape, yet most of these allegations that seem to cross the spectrum in nature, all seem to be being thrown into the "sexual predator" box.

Any investigations that reveal criminal behaviour, should go through due process, but people having their lives ruined from social media chat, without seeing evidence, is premature and wrong.

Well said,and the sensible way to look at it,if I were to bring up some of the 'advances',and 'grouping' made on me when I was a very young lad the women would,on today's going ons, be up before the judge,but,I would not dream of it because although they were a lot older than me,I did enjoy most of the attention that came with it,as you say there's a huge difference between a friendly, jokingly, 'stoppable' action,and a 'forced' action.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, eddysmit said:

Well said,and the sensible way to look at it,if I were to bring up some of the 'advances',and 'grouping' made on me when I was a very young lad the women would,on today's going ons, be up before the judge,but,I would not dream of it because although they were a lot older than me,I did enjoy most of the attention that came with it,as you say there's a huge difference between a friendly, jokingly, 'stoppable' action,and a 'forced' action.

I'm not sure the woman would agree that being pawed is a friendly, jokingly, 'stoppable' action. Especially since the only way to find out if it's "stoppable" is to take action. Maybe you think that the suspense is fun. I deal with a toddler on a daily basis. And one thing I constantly have to say is "use words."  to stop them from acting out or up. Of course the toddler has an excuse. Her brain is still growing. 

[jesimps]

There're an awful lot of lefties out this way so I'm not surprised by the result. Many guys are just very friendly, tactile people, but from now on they'll have to be more stand-offish.
Seems to me that some women want jam on both sides.

[eddysmit]

10 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I'm not sure the woman would agree that being pawed is a friendly, jokingly, 'stoppable' action. Especially since the only way to find out if it's "stoppable" is to take action. Maybe you think that the suspense is fun. I deal with a toddler on a daily basis. And one thing I constantly have to say is "use words."  to stop them from acting out or up. Of course the toddler has an excuse. Her brain is still growing. 

I did not mention 'toddlers',you did,please read my post again, I purposely stated 'my younger' days and the attention I received from OLDER women,satisfied now you have got your 'toddler' bit into the subject. as for being pawed,women in my time all had the answer for unwanted attention, perhaps you came from a more delicate life.

[Samui Bodoh]

 

[Enoon]

40 minutes ago, jesimps said:

There're an awful lot of lefties out this way so I'm not surprised by the result. Many guys are just very friendly, tactile people, but from now on they'll have to be more stand-offish.
Seems to me that some women want jam on both sides.

 

You can still be "friendly and tactile", just save it for your mates in the rugby club bath........."rightie".

 

 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Enoon

[geisha]

Most women I know have been " pawed" or had to listen to unwanted sexual talk in their lifetimes.( Im putting this in nice words !) Why should they put up with it ? Why do certain men do this ? This might not be sexual harassment , or agression, and most women I know can take a joke , but men, don't take it too far, keep your hands to yourself and watch your language. 

[Dagnabbit]

Because it only matter if it's Hollywood types doing the molesting?

Apart from being unproven?

It's just that Trump bores bringing the target of their affections into every thread is tiresome.

Get over it. Cant be doing your blood pressure any good.

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[vogie]

I was just wondering the other day whether I had a case for sexual harrassment, when I was in the army the sergeant major threatened to push his pace stick up my backside. ☺

Edited November 5, 2017 by vogie

[Bundooman]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Are men facing an unwarranted backlash? Nah, it is warranted. We had it easy for a looooong time.

 

However, there needs to be some mitigating factors considered;

 

When did the events in question occur? It isn't right to adjudicate a person's action based on current mores. Was the offence an offence when it occurred? 

Was it simply bad manners/rudeness or harrassment? One person's rudeness is another's harassment.

Is there some sort of process to decide what is/was bad and what was/is not?

 

Things have changed drastically in my lifetime, and changed for the better. And if people like Harvey Weinstein are still out there being a butt-hole, then throw the book at them. AFTER due process and consideration.

Neither men nor women deserve to be dumped on like we have been reading about for the last while. 

 

Is it really that difficult to treat everyone with respect?

I agree. I also have 2 questions. How many expats on this forum have assaulted a woman sexually or groped a woman, either her in Thailand, in their home country or anywhere else for that matter during their lifetime? question number 2 is, if you have, do you think that is OK?

 

I've been around a bit but I can honestly say, hand on heart that I have never done that. Therefore, for me personally, it isn't "OK" for anyone else to do it either. I was brought up to treat women with respect and it isn't difficult, even if the woman is disrespectful to me. Personal standards, I guess.

 

[bazza73]

It's not too hard to understand. You make an approach, and the female indicates verbally or by body language she is not interested. Back off and move on.

IMHO the place men really get shafted is Western "family" courts.

[Morch]

Umm...somewhere, someone...probably as we speak. Not into that myself.

 

Also:

 

 

 

 

 

[amvet]

10 minutes ago, bazza73 said:

It's not too hard to understand. You make an approach, and the female indicates verbally or by body language she is not interested. Back off and move on.

IMHO the place men really get shafted is Western "family" courts.

I believe the lady can change her mind the day after.  Isin't that what happened to that Aussie guy stuck in some embassy in London?