German army contemplates EU fissures in scenario study: Spiegel

[webfact]

German army contemplates EU fissures in scenario study: Spiegel

 

FILE PHOTO: The European flag flies outside of the La Canada shopping centre in Marbella, southern Spain January 23, 2013. REUTERS/Jon Nazca

 

FRANKFURT (Reuters) - The German army contemplated fissures in the European Union and a rise in global conflicts as one of six scenarios that might play out by 2040, German magazine Der Spiegel wrote in this week's edition.

 

The EU experienced a damaging debt crisis in 2010-12 and is now navigating Britain's departure from 28-country club, the first country to choose to lose the bloc.

 

In their scenarios, the German army's strategists envisaged a situation where more countries follow Britain's footsteps and the world becomes "increasingly disorderly".

 

"The EU enlargement has been largely abandoned, more states have left the bloc," they wrote in the study cited by Der Spiegel.

 

"The increasingly disorderly, sometimes chaotic and conflictual world has dramatically changed the security policy environment for Germany and Europe."

 

The magazine said the study would be followed by concrete armaments plans to be developed in the coming years.

 

A Defence Ministry spokesman said on Sunday the study, labelled Strategic Perspective 2040, made "robust predictions" but did not attach probabilities to them or trigger decisions.

 

He declined to comment about the content of the report, which is confidential.

 

The five other scenarios cited by Der Spiegel include one where some eastern European states halt progress in EU integration and others enter the "Eastern bloc", a likely reference to Russia and its allies.

 

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said the EU risked running into trouble unless it allowed members to participate at varying levels of intensity, with those using the euro currency pulling closer together.

 

Two scenarios in the army's study saw a comeback of Russian-style "state capitalism" in some EU countries and a halt in globalisation. A further two envisaged a more peaceful world.

 

(Reporting By Francesco Canepa; Editing by Edmund Blair)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-11-06

[hansnl]

No, Mrs "work schaffen es" Merkel, the Euro is a dud, and the countries using that dud must not get more together.

Away the EU, the EEC is enough.

 

[DoctorG]

This is not in the least unusual. Good armies model for different scenarios. Most likely these events will not happen, but it is better to be prepared.

[eliotness]

The German Army as a peace maker in Europe -  well that would certainly make a change !!!

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, eliotness said:

The German Army as a peace maker in Europe -  well that would certainly make a change !!!

Another  poster who's still suffering from PTSD incurred during WW2. 

Edited November 6, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[maximillian]

28 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Another  poster who's still suffering from PTSD incurred during WW2. 

Not really. Look who is chancellor and who is defense minister.

Two NATO bitches. And who is dominating the NATO ?

Things are not the same as some 70 plus years ago but unfortunately the German Army (Bundeswehr) is part of the aggressive NATO.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, maximillian said:

Not really. Look who is chancellor and who is defense minister.

Two NATO bitches. And who is dominating the NATO ?

Things are not the same as some 70 plus years ago but unfortunately the German Army (Bundeswehr) is part of the aggressive NATO.

I know what you mean. Their invasion of the Ukraine, their alliances with insurgents in Georgia and Moldova, their aggressive probing of the Scandinavian nations's defenses, clearly mark them out as a grave danger to peace in Europe.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

Another  poster who's still suffering from PTSD incurred during WW2. 

 

100 years ago the battle of Paschendaele was coming to an end. Slaughter beyond belief. 

 

WWI fulled by German imperialistic ambitions and the Kaiser's unrelenting will to make Germany top dog in Europe.

 

WW11 again driven by a desire to make Germany rulers of Europe and impose an evil sick political doctrine on all they conquered.

 

Germany has only been a country since 1870 and by 1939 had launched the biggest two wars the world has seen.

 

But hey, nothing to learn from history. 

 

 

[Becker]

1 hour ago, maximillian said:

Not really. Look who is chancellor and who is defense minister.

Two NATO bitches. And who is dominating the NATO ?

Things are not the same as some 70 plus years ago but unfortunately the German Army (Bundeswehr) is part of the aggressive NATO.

NATO bitches?? I smell a Putin bitch.

[ilostmypassword]

50 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

100 years ago the battle of Paschendaele was coming to an end. Slaughter beyond belief. 

 

WWI fulled by German imperialistic ambitions and the Kaiser's unrelenting will to make Germany top dog in Europe.

 

WW11 again driven by a desire to make Germany rulers of Europe and impose an evil sick political doctrine on all they conquered.

 

Germany has only been a country since 1870 and by 1939 had launched the biggest two wars the world has seen.

 

But hey, nothing to learn from history. 

 

 

How many wars has  Germany been involved in since 1945?

How many wars has the UK been involved in since 1945?

Seems to me, one party has a much stronger claim to learning from history than the other.

[Rancid]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

I know what you mean. Their invasion of the Ukraine, their alliances with insurgents in Georgia and Moldova, their aggressive probing of the Scandinavian nations's defenses, clearly mark them out as a grave danger to peace in Europe.

Hmm, didn't know NATO was probing Scandinavian defenses. Might as well add Serbia and Libya to their multiple crimes as well, NATO a despicable profit front for war mongers.

[Caps]

2 hours ago, maximillian said:

Not really. Look who is chancellor and who is defense minister.

Two NATO bitches. And who is dominating the NATO ?

Things are not the same as some 70 plus years ago but unfortunately the German Army (Bundeswehr) is part of the aggressive NATO.

aggressive NATO, what planet are you on?

[Becker]

56 minutes ago, Caps said:

aggressive NATO, what planet are you on?

Planet Putin.

[eliotness]

4 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Another  poster who's still suffering from PTSD incurred during WW2. 

On the eve of Rememberance Day I find your remark either ironic or callous, not sure which.  The Prussian Generals planned WW1 long before they actually invaded Belgium. Towards the close of WW2 "der seig wird unser sein" was a rallying call for the Nazi troops.  .The phrase " Lest we forget" needs to be recalled just now as tensions rise in Europe. As for PTSD  -  well they bombed our chippie didn't they!

[ilostmypassword]

7 minutes ago, eliotness said:

On the eve of Rememberance Day I find your remark either ironic or callous, not sure which.  The Prussian Generals planned WW1 long before they actually invaded Belgium. Towards the close of WW2 "der seig wird unser sein" was a rallying call for the Nazi troops.  .The phrase " Lest we forget" needs to be recalled just now as tensions rise in Europe. As for PTSD  -  well they bombed our chippie didn't they!

 The eve of Rememberance Day? Doesn't "eve" mean the day before? Not 5 days out. And you really think your comment is in keeping with the somber spirit of Remembrance Day:? Let me remind you of what you wrote: "The German Army as a peace maker in Europe -  well that would certainly make a change !!!" 

You can festoon yourself with as many poppies as you like - they won't obscure the nasty tone of your comment.

Edited November 6, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[maximillian]

3 hours ago, Caps said:

aggressive NATO, what planet are you on?

Are you aware of NATO interventions after the fall of the Warsaw Pact ?

Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq and now Syria.

Once the NATO was meant to be a defence organisation but the US has turned it into an

offensive one.

 

[maximillian]

5 hours ago, Becker said:

NATO bitches?? I smell a Putin bitch.

Not a bitch, I'm male.

 

2 hours ago, Becker said:

Planet Putin.

Sure when you have such great leaders (cheaters) like Bush, Obama, Trump (almost Hilary C.)

then you must have someone else to bash. I'd prefer Putin over all US presidents since JFK.

[ilostmypassword]

7 minutes ago, maximillian said:

Are you aware of NATO interventions after the fall of the Warsaw Pact ?

Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq and now Syria.

Once the NATO was meant to be a defence organisation but the US has turned it into an

offensive one.

 

Yes, it invasion of several nations lately clearly supports your case.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, maximillian said:

Not a bitch, I'm male.

 

Sure when you have such great leaders (cheaters) like Bush, Obama, Trump (almost Hilary C.)

then you must have someone else to bash. I'd prefer Putin over all US presidents since JFK.

Stalin Bad so Hitler Good?

[eliotness]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

 The eve of Rememberance Day? Doesn't "eve" mean the day before? Not 5 days out. And you really think your comment is in keeping with the somber spirit of Remembrance Day:? Let me remind you of what you wrote: "The German Army as a peace maker in Europe -  well that would certainly make a change !!!" 

You can festoon yourself with as many poppies as you like - they won't obscure the nasty tone of your comment.

I humbly suggest you check your dictionary as "eve" can mean a period before.  As for my "nasty tone", let me tell you that both my grandfathers fought in WW1 and my uncle was in WW2 from 1939 to 1945 and I will wear my one poppy with pride. 

[maximillian]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

Stalin Bad so Hitler Good?

Comparing Putin with Hitler or Stalin?  That's ridiculous.

Stalin was successfully defending the Nazis otherwise he was a monster.

Putin isn't but we are trying hard to make him look like one.

Did you ever listen to Putin's speeches ?  Why is the West and its mainstream media demonizing Putin and Russia ? 

After Germany's reunification the Russians retreated from German soil, the US didn't and the NATO kept moving east. Without the Russian agreement there wouldn't have been a reunification. 

 

[Morch]

The OP refers to predictions involving a possibly chaotic future, with several scenarios considered. The OP then mentions this:

 

Quote

The magazine said the study would be followed by concrete armaments plans to be developed in the coming years.

 

Disregarding the expected corruption and MIC-like comments, wonder how the two are resolved. Different scenarios call for different tasks and different equipment (not to mention tactics and training). Developing, purchasing and implementing such methods and means take time, and such processes do not readily lend themselves to changes.

 

While probabilities were not attached (at least not publicly), ultimately there will be a need to zero in on a more likely set. Perhaps Germany's future defense and security decisions will provide some insight as to which predictions were deemed more probable.

[Becker]

21 minutes ago, maximillian said:

Not a bitch, I'm male.

 

Sure when you have such great leaders (cheaters) like Bush, Obama, Trump (almost Hilary C.)

then you must have someone else to bash. I'd prefer Putin over all US presidents since JFK.

Bush and certainly Trump were/are not great leaders - quite the opposite. However, they can be removed by the electorate and do not run/ran a de facto dictatorship. Your support of Putin is despicable.

'Nuf said. 

[Caps]

26 minutes ago, maximillian said:

Are you aware of NATO interventions after the fall of the Warsaw Pact ?

Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq and now Syria.

Once the NATO was meant to be a defence organisation but the US has turned it into an

offensive one.

 

Why shouldnt I be?  I served in a couple of them.

So we should have just sat back and watched systematic slaughter, ethnic cleansing, or ruling with fear against your people and all the other atrocities which went with it  in Yugoslavia and Iraq Syria and Libya   Maybe you find in exceptable but there are a few that dont

Or indeed the way women are abused or people were scared to go against the Taliban in Afgan, or possoibly the way that terrorists could use the country as a safe haven with impunity.

As for being aggressive...we aint been aggressive enough is some instances 

[sirineou]

The army of a major country considering different possibilities is news?

It would had been news if the weren't.

Edited November 6, 2017 by sirineou

[ilostmypassword]

28 minutes ago, eliotness said:

I humbly suggest you check your dictionary as "eve" can mean a period before.  As for my "nasty tone", let me tell you that both my grandfathers fought in WW1 and my uncle was in WW2 from 1939 to 1945 and I will wear my one poppy with pride. 

I humbly checked my OED.

The day or period of time immediately before an event or occasion.

‘on the eve of her departure he gave her a little parcel’

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/eve

 

You can wrap yourself up in poppies and your relatives's service all you like, it doesn't give you license to hijack a holiday to justify saying something nasty.