Gym workout and protein intake

[Jim P]

2 hours ago, Polanskiman said:

 

Hi Jim,

 

Thanks for the detailed explanations and advice. I wasn't expecting so many people sharing their experience and being so generous in providing information. Obviously I was wrong.

 

In terms of body fat, the hi-tech machine I used at the gym printed some fancy numbers and said I was somewhere around 25% of body fat.

Regarding the food, the reason I talk about protein powder is because I usually do my gym in the morning 9-10am and then go to work so I don't have time to prepare my own food and so a protein shake would make things easy for me. Of course for breakfast and dinner I could eat proper healthy natural food.

I though that creatine had the effect of increasing water retention in muscles but once stopped then the muscle would also decrease in volume. Is that correct?

 

My initial goal was to lose around 10/14 kg since that would put me at around 83/84 kg which is supposed to be my 'normal' weight in relation to my hight. But the thing is I don't want to look skinny and instead want to increase muscle mass / volume and look as you put, beach fit. By the way how long did it take you to build that body? I could see myself looking like that!

 

Thanks again.

Hi Polanskiman

 

Our stats are pretty much the same, your targets sound very achievable. I understand you don’t want to look skinny, I don’t think I do but neither do I look like a bodybuilder. Being leaner will naturally make you look more muscular. Your target is therefore to have a muscle mass of 80% or above and a body fat in the region of 12-15%, and you also want the energy to be able to support hard routines, good cardio is vital too. My gym has a fancy Boditrax machine I step on about twice a year now to see my stats.

The way to achieve this imo is to ditch all the bro science such as `today is chest day, tomorrow is back day` and concentrate on whole body routines that combine, resistance, intensity and stamina, these sessions can be bashed out in 30 mins, 40 max, 3 or four times a week. You see fitter looking guys and girls from lost tribes in the Amazon or African bush people than you do most of the people in the gym following all the bro science routines, doing things like wrist curls? You have trained before so you know the compound exercises, just combine them with intensity and good form.

Concentrate hard on your form, full range of movement and slowly, you will find you are lifting probably  less weight than most others but you will be getting better results. When you can do 3 sets of ten reps increase the weight by the smallest amount you can, usually 2.5kg. Im not a strong guy, the most I have benched is 60kgs, and 20kgs of that is the bar! Try 60kg 5 secs up and 5 secs down, you will feel it. Every few months have a whole week out of the gym, your body needs a break.

I do one HIIT session a week, at your age you could do two, it takes 20-30 mins. I do different combos that combine bodyweight squats, burpees, weighted lunges, press ups, pull ups, battle ropes and tyre pushes (my gym has one) Combine that with a couple of high intensity weigh sessions and you will get results.

 Ok so you have to have a shake in the morning because of time constraints, you actually don’t, you can get out of bed earlier and eat, or prepare something in the fridge overnight such as a combo of oats, yoghurt fruit and honey. The only way you can’t do this is if you are wasting hours in the gym before work, imo you can work out and be showered in less than an hour, I do it before work more often than not. Mental focus is important to me, sometimes I want to be lazy, but the thought of my next holiday is enough to get me motivated to go to the gym early.

Creatine is naturally produced in meats and fish but I have found supplementing with it beneficial in strength gains, again this is only my opinion. I only take it on days I train, as for water retention yes maybe it has that effect, again Im not a bodybuilder. You put two identical guys side by side one on creatine and one not you wouldn’t see the difference, neither would you see the difference if you took the guy off creatine, bodybuilding sites go into very miniscule details that are just not needed by guys like us. I don’t take it when Im on holidays, but then neither do I train on hols.

I was about 94kg and 25% bf when I started in 2013, like you I had trained before. It took me a while to realise that most of what I was reading and seeing on the net was BS, not relevant to me( I am not a bodybuilder) or enhanced with dodgy drugs. I then decided to do my own thing, my own diet and my own routines. From there I guess it took me about a year and I have maintained it since because I make it enjoyable for myself, not a chore , that pic was taken June this year.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Jim P

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, Bob12345 said:

Don't agree with you there; twice.

 

Meal and protein intake timing are really not that important at amateur level and the quantity/quality count for much more unless in extreme cases. When you eat a steak it will take 8-10 hours to completely digest meaning you have protein available for that period of time. As long as you eat 3 meals a day with some protein in each you don't have to worry about timing. Most eat more meals...

 

Same reasoning with why i don't agree with the 30-40 grams a meal. A steak takes 8 hours to digest and there are only 24 hours in a day. That means you can have only 3 meals a day of 30-40 grams of protein each. Thats a bit low for a bodybuilder who normally reaches 3g/kg a day. 

 

While having a huge surgein proteins available at a point in time will have diminishing returns, you don't have to worry about that as long as you not only drink whey shakes all day long. Get most of your proteins out real food (eggs, meat, dairy, fish, etc) and forget about that silly 40 grams a meal rule.

 

And don't copy too much from bodybuilders. Things change a lot when you introduce steroids meaning you cannot simply copy what they are doing.

 

Regarding dieting i always follow the following pyramid (from most important to least important:

1. Calories (surplus, deficit)

2. Macro's (fats, proteins, carbs)

3. Micro's (vitamins, minerals, water intake, etc)

4. Meal timing

5. Supplements

 

Don't start focusing on #2 before you got #1 under control, etc.

Steaks are not the best source of proteins...lots of fat, little ratio of proteins per gram, not to mention expensive.

The fact that proteins may be available for 8 hours doesn't matter...what matters is when they are available.

New muscle cells are mostly built during deep sleeping, which is when proteins need to be available in the bloodstream.

This is why it is recommended to drink a protein shake before going to bed, which is easier than cooking and eating a big steak at such a late hour.

My trainer, who was wellknown in the muscle building big family, used to say that successful training was based, in equal parts, on 3 things: proper training, proper food and proper sleep.

You are right about bodybuilders, and anyway it is not really possible to copy their routine: 6 hours of daily training, 5 or 6 meals a day and all the supplements and paraphernalia...forget about it...

[EcigAmateur]

You need 5 times a week training and drink protein when you feel hungry outside meals schedule. 3x20g protein per day is always good enough if you exercise daily.

 

 

 

 

[Jimmyjames120]

Polanskiman,  I’d close this topic now if I were you, you have more than enough good info to work with and the BS is really starting to flow, better to not fill your head with nonsense

[transam]

2 hours ago, EcigAmateur said:

You need 5 times a week training and drink protein when you feel hungry outside meals schedule. 3x20g protein per day is always good enough if you exercise daily.

 

 

 

 

I would suggest a max of 3 times a week, every other day so stuff has time to repair..

[Polanskiman]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

I would suggest a max of 3 times a week, every other day so stuff has time to repair..

Yes that's the plan. Not doing anymore than that. Maybe 30 minutes treadmill (walking) during the weekends but that's about it.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Polanskiman said:

Yes that's the plan. Not doing anymore than that. Maybe 30 minutes treadmill (walking) during the weekends but that's about it.

That's cool, abs are OK to do as much as you like, stuff you can do at home...

[Polanskiman]

1 hour ago, Jimmyjames120 said:

Polanskiman,  I’d close this topic now if I were you, you have more than enough good info to work with and the BS is really starting to flow, better to not fill your head with nonsense

Don't worry. I'll let common sense guide me. Let people express themselves. There is no absolute truth in the earth.

 

BTW I did download the Stronglift 5x5 app and read quite a lot yesterday about Stronglift exercices and whatnot. I paid the in-app extra as well as I got hooked up with it. I started this morning the 5x5 in the last sessions I had with my PT. I really liked the exercises. They reminded me of good old times but I think there is an issue with this type of workout. I don't believe they are totally suitable for beginners who are training alone. You definitely need to have a spotter with free weight experience or a PT. The reason is one needs to have proper forms and those exercises are not really easy to master at the beginning even with little weight. Specially squat and barbel row. Since one needs to increase weight at each session you can very quickly start making serious form mistakes.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Polanskiman

[bkk6060]

23 minutes ago, transam said:

That's cool, abs are OK to do as much as you like, stuff you can do at home...

No joking but I get my best sweat/cardio at home with my gf's.

I have a bad knee and cannot do much but walk but that is not enough to get a good sweat.

Fortunately I have found a few that don't say "hurry up".  After a solid 20 to 30 minutes I get one heck of a cardio workout. 

[Polanskiman]

15 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

Don't agree with you there; twice.

 

Meal and protein intake timing are really not that important at amateur level and the quantity/quality count for much more unless in extreme cases. When you eat a steak it will take 8-10 hours to completely digest meaning you have protein available for that period of time. As long as you eat 3 meals a day with some protein in each you don't have to worry about timing. Most eat more meals...

 

Same reasoning with why i don't agree with the 30-40 grams a meal. A steak takes 8 hours to digest and there are only 24 hours in a day. That means you can have only 3 meals a day of 30-40 grams of protein each. Thats a bit low for a bodybuilder who normally reaches 3g/kg a day. 

 

While having a huge surgein proteins available at a point in time will have diminishing returns, you don't have to worry about that as long as you not only drink whey shakes all day long. Get most of your proteins out real food (eggs, meat, dairy, fish, etc) and forget about that silly 40 grams a meal rule.

 

And don't copy too much from bodybuilders. Things change a lot when you introduce steroids meaning you cannot simply copy what they are doing.

 

Regarding dieting i always follow the following pyramid (from most important to least important:

1. Calories (surplus, deficit)

2. Macro's (fats, proteins, carbs)

3. Micro's (vitamins, minerals, water intake, etc)

4. Meal timing

5. Supplements

 

Don't start focusing on #2 before you got #1 under control, etc.

Thanks for the recommendations. I'm not into bodybuilding professionally so I'll keep it real.

What do you mean by '1. Calories (surplus, deficit)' ? I need to count the calories I consume and those a burn?

[transam]

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

No joking but I get my best sweat/cardio at home with my gf's.

I have a bad knee and cannot do much but walk but that is not enough to get a good sweat.

Fortunately I have found a few that don't say "hurry up".  After a solid 20 to 30 minutes I get one heck of a cardio workout. 

Yep, me too, but sadly doesn't matter how much I give the old todger a workout there are no gains....Oh well....

[Polanskiman]

15 hours ago, Jim P said:

Hi Polanskiman

 

Our stats are pretty much the same, your targets sound very achievable. I understand you don’t want to look skinny, I don’t think I do but neither do I look like a bodybuilder. Being leaner will naturally make you look more muscular. Your target is therefore to have a muscle mass of 80% or above and a body fat in the region of 12-15%, and you also want the energy to be able to support hard routines, good cardio is vital too. My gym has a fancy Boditrax machine I step on about twice a year now to see my stats.

The way to achieve this imo is to ditch all the bro science such as `today is chest day, tomorrow is back day` and concentrate on whole body routines that combine, resistance, intensity and stamina, these sessions can be bashed out in 30 mins, 40 max, 3 or four times a week. You see fitter looking guys and girls from lost tribes in the Amazon or African bush people than you do most of the people in the gym following all the bro science routines, doing things like wrist curls? You have trained before so you know the compound exercises, just combine them with intensity and good form.

Concentrate hard on your form, full range of movement and slowly, you will find you are lifting probably  less weight than most others but you will be getting better results. When you can do 3 sets of ten reps increase the weight by the smallest amount you can, usually 2.5kg. Im not a strong guy, the most I have benched is 60kgs, and 20kgs of that is the bar! Try 60kg 5 secs up and 5 secs down, you will feel it. Every few months have a whole week out of the gym, your body needs a break.

I do one HIIT session a week, at your age you could do two, it takes 20-30 mins. I do different combos that combine bodyweight squats, burpees, weighted lunges, press ups, pull ups, battle ropes and tyre pushes (my gym has one) Combine that with a couple of high intensity weigh sessions and you will get results.

 Ok so you have to have a shake in the morning because of time constraints, you actually don’t, you can get out of bed earlier and eat, or prepare something in the fridge overnight such as a combo of oats, yoghurt fruit and honey. The only way you can’t do this is if you are wasting hours in the gym before work, imo you can work out and be showered in less than an hour, I do it before work more often than not. Mental focus is important to me, sometimes I want to be lazy, but the thought of my next holiday is enough to get me motivated to go to the gym early.

Creatine is naturally produced in meats and fish but I have found supplementing with it beneficial in strength gains, again this is only my opinion. I only take it on days I train, as for water retention yes maybe it has that effect, again Im not a bodybuilder. You put two identical guys side by side one on creatine and one not you wouldn’t see the difference, neither would you see the difference if you took the guy off creatine, bodybuilding sites go into very miniscule details that are just not needed by guys like us. I don’t take it when Im on holidays, but then neither do I train on hols.

I was about 94kg and 25% bf when I started in 2013, like you I had trained before. It took me a while to realise that most of what I was reading and seeing on the net was BS, not relevant to me( I am not a bodybuilder) or enhanced with dodgy drugs. I then decided to do my own thing, my own diet and my own routines. From there I guess it took me about a year and I have maintained it since because I make it enjoyable for myself, not a chore , that pic was taken June this year.

 

Again, thanks for all the sharing. Highly appreciated and very interesting read.

 

I actually started this morning with a new program called Stronglift 5x5. You might have heard about it. All free weight. Three exercises per workout with 5repx5sets. I started today so it took longer (around 1 hour) as I needed some PT support for proper form. I think I'll be using some machines for the next couple of weeks to increase strength before fully diving into the 5x5 program as mastering proper form is not easy and that program basically tells you to add 2.5 kg at each workout session. Wrong from will definitely lead to injuries so I want to make sure I am doing the exercices properly first.

 

Thanks for the support and great info.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Polanskiman

[Jimmyjames120]

50 minutes ago, Polanskiman said:

Don't worry. I'll let common sense guide me. Let people express themselves. There is no absolute truth in the earth.

 

BTW I did download the Stronglift 5x5 app and read quite a lot yesterday about Stronglift exercices and whatnot. I paid the in-app extra as well as I got hooked up with it. I started this morning the 5x5 in the last sessions I had with my PT. I really liked the exercises. They reminded me of good old times but I think there is an issue with this type of workout. I don't believe they are totally suitable for beginners who are training alone. You definitely need to have a spotter with free weight experience or a PT. The reason is one needs to have proper forms and those exercises are not really easy to master at the beginning even with little weight. Specially squat and barbel row. Since one needs to increase weight at each session you can very quickly start making serious form mistakes.

The only way to master them is to keep doing them.

 

Dont start adding weight until you have mastered them. 

 

Squat for example, just use the barbell without weights, should be 20kg if it’s an Olympic barbell.

 

Find a real gym with squat cage, then you don’t need a spotter, look on stronglifts at what he used if your not sure what I mean. Better still just buy one and workout at home, that’s what I did, no problems then when you arrive at a gym and it’s busy, plus can workout whenever you want, mine came from Bangkok .

 

I had the same concerns when I started but I kept going and kept reading and very quickly got the hang of it, if you have a pain, for example knee pain after squatting, look on stronglifts as to how your form is off and adjust it.

[Bob12345]

3 hours ago, Polanskiman said:

Thanks for the recommendations. I'm not into bodybuilding professionally so I'll keep it real.

What do you mean by '1. Calories (surplus, deficit)' ? I need to count the calories I consume and those a burn?

If you gain or lose weight will depend mainly if you are in a deficit or surplus (eat more or less then you burn). Its that simple. Dont look for secret health foods, super exercises, meal timing tricks, or supplements.

 

You can calculate how much you eat and estimate how much you burn (find the formulas online). Over time you can adjust it for your body.

 

If you go the wrong way (get fatter) it simply means you eat too much. If you lose weight too quickly you dont eat enough.

 

Count calories if you are really serious about it, or just estimate your consumption otherwise. But dont start investing too much time on the other points unless you look at this first in detail.

[Polanskiman]

13 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

If you gain or lose weight will depend mainly if you are in a deficit or surplus (eat more or less then you burn). Its that simple. Dont look for secret health foods, super exercises, meal timing tricks, or supplements.

 

You can calculate how much you eat and estimate how much you burn (find the formulas online). Over time you can adjust it for your body.

 

If you go the wrong way (get fatter) it simply means you eat too much. If you lose weight too quickly you dont eat enough.

 

Count calories if you are really serious about it, or just estimate your consumption otherwise. But dont start investing too much time on the other points unless you look at this first in detail.

Guess you are talking about a TDEE calculator. For tracking calories I guess I could download MyFitnessPal App. Thanks for the recommendations :)

[Polanskiman]

By the way, is anyone working out at Fitness First in QHouse Lumpini in the mornings between 9-10am? I wouldn't say no to some spotter help during workout. Let me know by PM if that's something you could do. Thanks.

[Jim P]

12 minutes ago, Polanskiman said:

Guess you are talking about a TDEE calculator. For tracking calories I guess I could download MyFitnessPal App. Thanks for the recommendations :)

Yes a combo of them both is a good idea. I used My Fitness pal for about a year, now I can kinda guesstimate my intake. At your stats and goal I would start at a surplus of 300 calories a day and drop 100 every month. By month 8 you will be in a 500 deficit and have the transformation you want. Forget the magazines and all the BS workouts, they have to continually re invent themselves to keep selling. A good diet, good workouts and adequate rest are all you need. Good luck.

[Polanskiman]

8 minutes ago, Jim P said:

Yes a combo of them both is a good idea. I used My Fitness pal for about a year, now I can kinda guesstimate my intake. At your stats and goal I would start at a surplus of 300 calories a day and drop 100 every month. By month 8 you will be in a 500 deficit and have the transformation you want. Forget the magazines and all the BS workouts, they have to continually re invent themselves to keep selling. A good diet, good workouts and adequate rest are all you need. Good luck.

Just being curious here but why start with a surplus to then start decreasing to lose weight? Why not start straight with a deficit?

[Jim P]

Just now, Polanskiman said:

Just being curious here but why start with a surplus to then start decreasing to lose weight? Why not start straight with a deficit?

A lot of people make the mistake of starting in a deficit, which is fine if you want to lose weight, you dont. You want to burn fat and transform your body to be more muscular. For this goal you will first have to build the muscle and then burn the fat. You need the extra calories because you are now embarking on a training program and need more energy than you have needed for a long time. If you go into a deficit you wont have the energy to perform the workouts you need for your transformation, you will be lethargic and weak after a few sessions. You are not on a diet, you are on a program of change.

 

At some point (for me it was 18% body fat) you will reach a plateau where the fat just wont shift, it gets harder the lower you go. Now if you are already in a big deficit what do you do? You cant cut any more calories without becoming super weak and losing all that hard earned muscle and being unable to perform good workouts. But if you still have a spare few hundred to play with then you can break the plateau. Its trial and error, one size doesn't fit all, you will have to adjust your carbs and fats as you go, keep your protein intake consistent.Hope this helps, and makes some sense.

 

I am asked all the time in the gym by lads how I do it, so I tell them and the next day I see them still doing exactly the same thing, the old dumbbell curls etc, complete waste of time for the goal they want. Maybe if you want to look like Arnie thats the way to go, thats not what I wanted. There are no shortcuts imo, its hard work but once your there maintaining it isn't so tough because the diet becomes part of your lifestyle.

[Polanskiman]

2 minutes ago, Jim P said:

A lot of people make the mistake of starting in a deficit, which is fine if you want to lose weight, you dont. You want to burn fat and transform your body to be more muscular. For this goal you will first have to build the muscle and then burn the fat. You need the extra calories because you are now embarking on a training program and need more energy than you have needed for a long time. If you go into a deficit you wont have the energy to perform the workouts you need for your transformation, you will be lethargic and weak after a few sessions. You are not on a diet, you are on a program of change.

 

At some point (for me it was 18% body fat) you will reach a plateau where the fat just wont shift, it gets harder the lower you go. Now if you are already in a big deficit what do you do? You cant cut any more calories without becoming super weak and losing all that hard earned muscle and being unable to perform good workouts. But if you still have a spare few hundred to play with then you can break the plateau. Its trial and error, one size doesn't fit all, you will have to adjust your carbs and fats as you go, keep your protein intake consistent.Hope this helps, and makes some sense.

 

I am asked all the time in the gym by lads how I do it, so I tell them and the next day I see them still doing exactly the same thing, the old dumbbell curls etc, complete waste of time for the goal they want. Maybe if you want to look like Arnie thats the way to go, thats not what I wanted. There are no shortcuts imo, its hard work but once your there maintaining it isn't so tough because the diet becomes part of your lifestyle.

 

Yes makes perfect sense. So by month 8 or under those assumptions I should have a reduced overall weight but gained muscle mass. Is that correct?

[Jimmyjames120]

3 minutes ago, Polanskiman said:

 

Yes makes perfect sense. So by month 8 or under those assumptions I should have a reduced overall weight but gained muscle mass. Is that correct?

You’ll probably have a higher overall weight but no fat, if you’ve been training hard, muscle is heavy, forget about scales, mirrors talk

Edited November 8, 2017 by Jimmyjames120

[Polanskiman]

Well the idea is for me to lose some weight though as I think I could still look good and muscular with less than the 97kg I have currently. or?

[Jim P]

6 minutes ago, Polanskiman said:

 

Yes makes perfect sense. So by month 8 or under those assumptions I should have a reduced overall weight but gained muscle mass. Is that correct?

Forget the term `lose weight` that is not your focus. You focus is burn fat build muscle. However yes you will be lighter(makes pull ups easier :-)  Focus on progression photos and the mirror, not weighing scales. In fact you could probably even start with a 500 calorie surplus as your young, again it trial and error.

[Jim P]

I was writing that whilst Jimmy posted

[Polanskiman]

3 minutes ago, Jim P said:

Forget the term `lose weight` that is not your focus. You focus is burn fat build muscle. However yes you will be lighter(makes pull ups easier :-)  Focus on progression photos and the mirror, not weighing scales. In fact you could probably even start with a 500 calorie surplus as your young, again it trial and error.

Not sure why losing weight can not be a goal. The reason I focus on losing weight is because 97Kg is not my 'normal' weight and I remember feeling better when I was lighter and perhaps much fitter than now.

[Jim P]

1 minute ago, Polanskiman said:

Not sure why losing weight can not be a goal. The reason I focus on losing weight is because 97Kg is not my 'normal' weight and I remember feeling better when I was lighter and perhaps much fitter than now.

Ok, let me try to explain. Most people that want to lose weight do a number of things, they buy a weighing scale, they cut calories and they become more active. This usually happens around January 1^st. In the first week or so the scales show a nice drop in weight(most of this is water) as the weeks go by the weight falls off but gradually the drop slows down until it stops. They have reached a plateau but are already starving and then they give up and put it all back on again. What weight did they lose? Muscle and fat is the answer.

 

So do you want to lose weight? No,you want to keep the muscle, just losing weight wont achieve your goal. Think of it as your muscle weight coming up to meet your fat coming down, when it reaches 12% you will have your beach bod, that could be at 84kg that could be at 90kg, I don’t know. Either way you will look good, better than you ever have I would guess. So forget the concept of losing weight, throw the scales away.

[Polanskiman]

5 minutes ago, Jim P said:

Ok, let me try to explain. Most people that want to lose weight do a number of things, they buy a weighing scale, they cut calories and they become more active. This usually happens around January 1^st. In the first week or so the scales show a nice drop in weight(most of this is water) as the weeks go by the weight falls off but gradually the drop slows down until it stops. They have reached a plateau but are already starving and then they give up and put it all back on again. What weight did they lose? Muscle and fat is the answer.

 

So do you want to lose weight? No,you want to keep the muscle, just losing weight wont achieve your goal. Think of it as your muscle weight coming up to meet your fat coming down, when it reaches 12% you will have your beach bod, that could be at 84kg that could be at 90kg, I don’t know. Either way you will look good, better than you ever have I would guess. So forget the concept of losing weight, throw the scales away.

Nice. Ok will ditch altogether the concept of loosing weight and focus on the workout and eating well. You clearly know better than me!

I've calculated my TDEE. According to the calculator it says 3,009 cal/day if I chose the Moderate exercise:

 

So you would say I would need to add 500 calories to that per day in food then start dropping out 100 calories/day everyday the following months untill reaching deficit of 500 calories day?

 

[Jim P]

You wont achieve your goal with moderate exercise, anyway  you can start there. You need extra calories initially to build some muscle and fuel for energy, and then you will slowly start stripping the fat off by reducing your calories and increasing your weights, cardio and intensity etc. We are all different so there is no one size fits all, a lot of it will be tinkering with your calories and macros. Remember to rest for a week, say every 8 weeks and dont worry about the occasional drinking and eating binges, your consistency will overcome that. After 8 months you will be on 2700 calories day and working hard. You still have room to go down if you haven't achieved your goal. Im retiring to Thailand just about then so I might catch you in the gym :-) Good luck

[Katia]

6 hours ago, Jim P said:

Ok, let me try to explain. Most people that want to lose weight do a number of things, they buy a weighing scale, they cut calories and they become more active. This usually happens around January 1^st. In the first week or so the scales show a nice drop in weight(most of this is water) as the weeks go by the weight falls off but gradually the drop slows down until it stops. They have reached a plateau but are already starving and then they give up and put it all back on again. What weight did they lose? Muscle and fat is the answer.

 

So do you want to lose weight? No,you want to keep the muscle, just losing weight wont achieve your goal. Think of it as your muscle weight coming up to meet your fat coming down, when it reaches 12% you will have your beach bod, that could be at 84kg that could be at 90kg, I don’t know. Either way you will look good, better than you ever have I would guess. So forget the concept of losing weight, throw the scales away.

Precisely.  I had quite the argument with a coworker once, who was wanting to slim down:

Her: "I'm getting stronger, I can lift more now."

Me: "That's great."

Her: "The scale won't go down, though!"

Me: "You're gaining muscle."

Her: "But I want to lose weight!"

Me: "You're losing fat, but the muscle weighs more."

Her: "I just need to see that number on the scale go down."
Me: "How do your clothes fit?"

Her: "Looser..."

Me: "You're losing size.  That's how you know it's working."

Her: "I know, but the scale, though..."

 

IOW: don't get so fixated on the idea of "getting fitter = losing weight no matter what" and make yourself unhappy when you're clearly making gains, just 'cause the scale's not doing what society wants you to think it should.  She had it so drummed into her head that weight loss was the goal that she ignored the fact that she was actually smaller-- she could even see it for herself and would admit it-- but she had that psychological hangup that wouldn't let her believe anything was happening unless the numbers on that damn scale went down.

[bkk6060]

5 hours ago, Katia said:

Precisely.  I had quite the argument with a coworker once, who was wanting to slim down:

Her: "I'm getting stronger, I can lift more now."

Me: "That's great."

Her: "The scale won't go down, though!"

Me: "You're gaining muscle."

Her: "But I want to lose weight!"

Me: "You're losing fat, but the muscle weighs more."

Her: "I just need to see that number on the scale go down."
Me: "How do your clothes fit?"

Her: "Looser..."

Me: "You're losing size.  That's how you know it's working."

Her: "I know, but the scale, though..."

 

IOW: don't get so fixated on the idea of "getting fitter = losing weight no matter what" and make yourself unhappy when you're clearly making gains, just 'cause the scale's not doing what society wants you to think it should.  She had it so drummed into her head that weight loss was the goal that she ignored the fact that she was actually smaller-- she could even see it for herself and would admit it-- but she had that psychological hangup that wouldn't let her believe anything was happening unless the numbers on that damn scale went down.

Do you know how women think and what they want in this regard?

Of course,  99% of women want to lose weight, not gain muscle. 

Lower scale numbers is nirvana for them.