Brexit never? Britain can still change its mind, says Article 50 author

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, baansgr said:

No grassy Knowles, just educated people voting for a better future, sorry to burst the bubble on the main bar fly topic of conversation...

 

Except, the higher the degree of education, the less likely they were to be Brexiters...

 

I'll let you ponder the math on that one...

 

Edited November 11, 2017 by impulse

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

Except, the higher the degree of education, the less likely they were to be Brexiters...

 

 

[AGareth2]

The simple answer to the question as to whether the EU referendum is legally binding is “no”. In theory, in the event of a vote to leave the EU, The PM could decide to ignore the will of the people and put the question to MPs banking on a majority deciding to remain.

This is because parliament is sovereign and referendums are generally not binding in the UK.

Edited November 11, 2017 by AGareth2

[Khun Han]

10 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

You just keep believing what you want.  Just like so many Republicans who don't believe Putin's crew influenced the 2016 Presidential elections...

 

 

You're fantasizing. Putin had no influence over the brexit referendum. He had no means/ability to do so.

[nauseus]

Just now, AGareth2 said:

The simple answer to the question as to whether the EU referendum is legally binding is “no”. In theory, in the event of a vote to leave the EU, David Cameron, who opposes Brexit, could decide to ignore the will of the people and put the question to MPs banking on a majority deciding to remain.

This is because parliament is sovereign and referendums are generally not binding in the UK.

Yes, that's a simple answer.

[Chelseafan]

5 hours ago, Kenegg said:

How do you know this when they don't keep accounts?

They do keep accounts, it's just that they never get signed off :)

[nauseus]

Here's another spanner in the works.

 

 

 

[AGareth2]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Yes, that's a simple answer.

and your incorrect complicated answer is?

[Khun Han]

6 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

The simple answer to the question as to whether the EU referendum is legally binding is “no”. In theory, in the event of a vote to leave the EU, David Cameron, who opposes Brexit, could decide to ignore the will of the people and put the question to MPs banking on a majority deciding to remain.

This is because parliament is sovereign and referendums are generally not binding in the UK.

 

Your point is irrelevant. Even the rabidly pro-remain Independant dismisses it:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-eu-referendum-not-legally-binding-high-court-challenge-legal-case-remainers-brexiteers-a7367286.html%3famp

[Chelseafan]

9 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Except, the higher the degree of education, the less likely they were to be Brexiters...

 

I'll let you ponder the math on that one...

 

More likely that they were swayed by their left-leaning, tree-hugging lecturers/teachers :)

[AGareth2]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Your point is irrelevant. Even the rabidly pro-remain Independant dismisses it:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-eu-referendum-not-legally-binding-high-court-challenge-legal-case-remainers-brexiteers-a7367286.html%3famp

so it was a political decision to accept the will of the people

the statement I was refuting was that it was binding

it was not

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, AGareth2 said:

so it was a political decision to accept the will of the people

the statement I was refuting was that it was binding

it was not

 

I really don't see where you're trying to go with this. Yes, the referendum was legally an advisory. Yes, the government promised to act according to the referendum's outcome (and with huge parliamentary support). Yes, the government could legally ignore the referendum result. No, they (or any other sitting UK government) would not even consider doing so. That's why Cameron resigned. Get over it.

[AGareth2]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

I really don't see where you're trying to go with this. Yes, the referendum was legally an advisory. Yes, the government promised to act according to the referendum's outcome (and with huge parliamentary support). Yes, the government could legally ignore the referendum result. No, they (or any other sitting UK government) would not even consider doing so. That's why Cameron resigned. Get over it.

Get over what?

[Khun Han]

6 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

Get over what?

 

Remainers need to get over the fact that the govrnment is not going against the result of the referendum. The debate moved on from this long ago.

[nauseus]

19 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

and your incorrect complicated answer is?

By constitutional practice, the inclusion of the promise and policy of having a referendum to "let the people decide" (Cameron) in the Conservative's 2015 general election manifesto means that the Tories, having won the election with a majority, received the constitutional mandate to implement that policy and act according to the referendum result. This was supported by the European Union Referendum Act 2015, passed by parliament, to authorize the holding of the referendum with the question: “Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?” Not so complicated but very binding 

[AGareth2]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

By constitutional practice, the inclusion of the promise and policy of having a referendum to "let the people decide" (Cameron) in the Conservative's 2015 general election manifesto means that the Tories, having won the election with a majority, received the constitutional mandate to implement that policy and act according to the referendum result. This was supported by the European Union Referendum Act 2015, passed by parliament, to authorize the holding of the referendum with the question: “Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?” Not so complicated but very binding 

wrong again

[nauseus]

Just now, AGareth2 said:

wrong again

If I'm wrong then why didn't parliament simply ignore it?

 

And make it good.....

[AGareth2]

a referendum in the UK is only binding if it is stated in the act that it is to be binding

that is the law

it was not stated in the act

that is a fact

[AGareth2]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

If I'm wrong then why didn't parliament simply ignore it?

because in the leaflet that was sent to homes they said they would implement the peoples' desicion

[nauseus]

10 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

because in the leaflet that was sent to homes they said they would implement the peoples' desicion

There you go!

[dunroaming]

Another rip roaring thread on Europe's favourite subject.  It is absolutely right that emotions run high on this as it is going to have life changing effects on many of us.

 

Maybe we could break down the options into three groups.  First is that we could walk away without any deal and paying no money.  Second is that we could have a second referendum to see if the people still think that leaving is a good idea.  Third is to keep negotiating and try to get something positive from the Brexit outcome.

 

There is a fourth but I think that is not viable.  That would be to reverse Brexit and carry on as before.  We cannot do that because it would just cause more division in the country with people nit-picking everything, every day.  I am afraid we have dug this hole and we are stuck in it.

 

Anyway it is now decision time if we are to continue to negotiate some sort of deal.  Two weeks to come up with a divorce settlement figure and a way to get over the Irish border problem.  If not then it will be months before we can hope to make any progress and that really will mean not enough time.  Certainly not enough for businesses.  May and Davis are on a knife edge here.  Nobody is going to challenge May for the leadership. because quite rightly nobody wants to inherit this mess.  

 

[rockingrobin]

32 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Another rip roaring thread on Europe's favourite subject.  It is absolutely right that emotions run high on this as it is going to have life changing effects on many of us.

 

Maybe we could break down the options into three groups.  First is that we could walk away without any deal and paying no money.  Second is that we could have a second referendum to see if the people still think that leaving is a good idea.  Third is to keep negotiating and try to get something positive from the Brexit outcome.

 

There is a fourth but I think that is not viable.  That would be to reverse Brexit and carry on as before.  We cannot do that because it would just cause more division in the country with people nit-picking everything, every day.  I am afraid we have dug this hole and we are stuck in it.

 

Anyway it is now decision time if we are to continue to negotiate some sort of deal.  Two weeks to come up with a divorce settlement figure and a way to get over the Irish border problem.  If not then it will be months before we can hope to make any progress and that really will mean not enough time.  Certainly not enough for businesses.  May and Davis are on a knife edge here.  Nobody is going to challenge May for the leadership. because quite rightly nobody wants to inherit this mess.  

 

The decision that the UK government have to make is the reason why the phase 1 issues are stalling.

After the completion of phase 1 , the the UK government have to choose the direction of the future relationship, maintain or diverge from EU regulatory equivalence . This is likely to create a split within the conservative ranks as there is no common position on what the future relationship the UK should adopt

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, petermik said:

Our "government" was elected by us,and accountable to us...........the "johnnie foreigners" in Brussels were not....simple as

as for nurse nurse she is in attendance with me nightly for my bed bath and any other form of comfort she deems as necessary

You don,t like brexit...tough......the majority wanted it.....get used to it.

Then the majority are fools!

 

I will NOT get used to it

 

The majority WILL learn the error of their ways. I suspect many remainers are protected against the down side. Oh the irony, delicious irony ?

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

At least we get a chance to boot out the worst ones. Not so with the EU old boys network.

So, boot them out; they don't get much worse!

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

So, boot them out; they don't get much worse!

I am able to agree on that one. But the Jerco option? Not on your nelly! 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

It's all the bright people, like you, Grouse, who can't see what's coming.

Haha! Oh, I see it clearly enough! I packed my parachute a long time ago. I will watch from the sidelines as the low level munchkins get used to an American lifestyle and eschew European social democracy ?

[nauseus]

23 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

The decision that the UK government have to make is the reason why the phase 1 issues are stalling.

After the completion of phase 1 , the the UK government have to choose the direction of the future relationship, maintain or diverge from EU regulatory equivalence . This is likely to create a split within the conservative ranks as there is no common position on what the future relationship the UK should adopt

Article 50 has no mention of phases. Just negotiations. The EU have been dictating the exit process all the way through. Unfortunately this weakly led UK government has tagged along, hoping, in vain, for a change to pragmatic talks after each negotiating session. Of course this will continue, until the EU finally decide to compromise, or not. This is typical behaviour from them and proves one of the main points as to why we should get out now.  

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

You're fantasizing. Putin had no influence over the brexit referendum. He had no means/ability to do so.

He didn't need to! He couldn't believe his luck! He told me he was surprised that there were so many fools in the UK!

[nauseus]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Haha! Oh, I see it clearly enough! I packed my parachute a long time ago. I will watch from the sidelines as the low level munchkins get used to an American lifestyle and eschew European social democracy ?

Democracy. Haha back at ya!

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Remainers need to get over the fact that the govrnment is not going against the result of the referendum. The debate moved on from this long ago.

The government IS going ?