Australian tourist Stacey Liddle to go home next week

[Thaidream]

Thailand should pay for everything . When you advertise that you welcome tourists and want them to come to your country- you assume certain risks. There were 30 million tourist arrivals- simply charge  100 baht for medical coverage ad you will have amassed a huge pot of money each year. If you don't want to do this and don't want to pay stop inviting tourists to come to your country.  Healthcare is a human right -not something that people have to bargain over to live.

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

Then they are a bunch of cheats. Better in that case to make things clear with the accident insurance before a trip. Thanks for clarifying.

it is in the print in nearly all travel insurance policies that if you do a high risk activity then you void your insurance, which is what has happened here

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, observer90210 said:

Then they are a bunch of cheats. Better in that case to make things clear with the accident insurance before a trip. Thanks for clarifying.

No insurance will cover riding a motorbike without a license, Insurance companies dont really need to disclose that you are not covered if you dont have a license, its just common sense.

 

[observer90210]

Just now, Russell17au said:

it is in the print in nearly all travel insurance policies that if you do a high risk activity then you void your insurance, which is what has happened here

all depends on what is the definition "of high risk" ??..

 

"high risk" for some insurance, may mean spending sunbathing on a beach in Syria and for others plainly riding a bike...that's why better to make things clearer with the insurance before the trip,  as the small unreadable print at the botton of a insurance contract is usually subjective.

[Peterw42]

Just now, Russell17au said:

it is in the print in nearly all travel insurance policies that if you do a high risk activity then you void your insurance, which is what has happened here

Most insurance companies will cover motorbikes for a licensed rider, not off road , not breaking local laws etc. She was not covered because she didnt have a motorbike license.

[observer90210]

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

No insurance will cover riding a motorbike without a license, Insurance companies dont really need to disclose that you are not covered if you dont have a license, its just common sense.

 

True, but laws can vary from one country to another. Some countries hand over a bike licence (upto 125cm3), with a car licence, others don't and so on,...so a sensible comment would suggest to make it clear with the insurance company before a trip. Not saying this for this case in particular, but in general.

Edited November 12, 2017 by observer90210

[Russell17au]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Thailand should pay for everything . When you advertise that you welcome tourists and want them to come to your country- you assume certain risks. There were 30 million tourist arrivals- simply charge  100 baht for medical coverage ad you will have amassed a huge pot of money each year. If you don't want to do this and don't want to pay stop inviting tourists to come to your country.  Healthcare is a human right -not something that people have to bargain over to live.

Why should Thailand pay for the irresponsible act that this girl did. She knew she was wrong but she still did it. You cannot hold Thailand responsible for the stupidity of what people do. People must take the responsibility for their own actions and not pass the blame onto others. This girl made her own choice of breaking the conditions of her travel insurance. Not Thailand.

[observer90210]

3 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Why should Thailand pay for the irresponsible act that this girl did. She knew she was wrong but she still did it. You cannot hold Thailand responsible for the stupidity of what people do. People must take the responsibility for their own actions and not pass the blame onto others. This girl made her own choice of breaking the conditions of her travel insurance. Not Thailand.

There is a strong part of responsibility from the bike renters who just look at the cash and do not conduct due dilligence on the customers. In this case the girl suffered, but what if a licenceless biker is given a bike with no check and kills other innocent people ?

Edited November 12, 2017 by observer90210

[Russell17au]

4 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

all depends on what is the definition "of high risk" ??..

 

"high risk" for some insurance, may mean spending sunbathing on a beach in Syria and for others plainly riding a bike...that's why better to make things clearer with the insurance before the trip,  as the small unreadable print at the botton of a insurance contract is usually subjective.

Most travel insurance policies when you list you are coming to Thailand list motorbikes as a high risk and you will void your insurance or you are hit with an extra high premium if you want that coverage but you must supply a copy of your international permit to say you are a licensed bike rider

[observer90210]

3 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Most travel insurance policies when you list you are coming to Thailand list motorbikes as a high risk and you will void your insurance or you are hit with an extra high premium if you want that coverage but you must supply a copy of your international permit to say you are a licensed bike rider

Very true but once again it depends in which country as there is no universal law regarding insurance policies. All the more reason as mentioned before ,to duly check with the insurance policy in one's home country. Certain countries and policies allow you to ride a 2 wheel means of tranport, upto a certain cm3, with no licence.

Edited November 12, 2017 by observer90210

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

There is a strong part of responsibility from the bike renters who just look at the cash and do not conduct due dilligence on the customers.

you cannot take the responsibility away from the girl who knew she was not licensed and she was not covered by her insurance. Each person in life must take the responsibility for their own actions and their own decisions in life

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, Russell17au said:

Most travel insurance policies when you list you are coming to Thailand list motorbikes as a high risk and you will void your insurance or you are hit with an extra high premium if you want that coverage but you must supply a copy of your international permit to say you are a licensed bike rider

Yes, motorbikes without a license would be a high risk, not covered by any insurance. I havetaken out several travel policies from Australia and have always checked that as a licensed rider, I am covered to ride motorbikes. As the rep at the insurance company said to me, They cant really say no if you have a license, its the same as driving a car with a license. Its a legal vehicle.

[observer90210]

3 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

you cannot take the responsibility away from the girl who knew she was not licensed and she was not covered by her insurance. Each person in life must take the responsibility for their own actions and their own decisions in life

Very true, so I would assume that your concluding statement would thus include the irresponsable bike renters who only look at the cash.

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, observer90210 said:

Very true, so I would assume that your concluding statement would thus include the irresponsable bike renters who only look at the cash.

if she had been responsible and not gone to the renter then this would not have happened. She started this by being totally irresponsible and going to the renter. You cannot take the blame for that away from her and pass it onto someone else

[tingtongtourist]

4 hours ago, Russell17au said:

Hey it is not only Ozzies that are stupid. It is anyone that comes to Thailand or for that matter goes to any country and hires a motorbike without having the proper license and the proper travel insurance to cover any incidents that they have. There are Ozzies, Brits, New Zealanders, Americans, Canadians and many other nationalities that are involved in this practice of not having the proper travel insurance

It is no crime to not have insurance.

Many do not like the fine print that cancels all and the other fact that many these companies have a long history of finding every reason to not pay up if you claim.

 

If you use the grey matter in your noggin a bit, you can adjust behaviour to avoid nearly all risk.

 

Just consider to look at the mayhem and maniacs on Thailands roads and a sensible tourist will gladly look for some other way of transport.

 

But no, many even have no licence or experience before, no idea of thai road rules, and even some get grogged up and yahoo about

and then wonder why it ends in tears

[Peterw42]

10 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

There is a strong part of responsibility from the bike renters who just look at the cash and do not conduct due dilligence on the customers.

People present their "car" license and say its a bike licence, a Thai guy who cant read English isn't going to know any different. Other people, with a license, can hire for friends etc

[Thaidream]

Thailand invites mass tourism  and assumes a risk when it allows foreigners to enter their country.  While personal responsibility makes perfect sense- we must remember that medical care is a human right not a privilege that allows the provider to decide who to treat and not to treat.  As I have mentioned- Thailand can charge every visitor a small amount of money up front  to offset the risk.  Or Thailand, can send the medical bill to the country of origin. Once you take the profit out of medical care- things become much simpler and much fairer.

 

Countries like the UK and other European countries as well as Canada and Japan have universal medical care, Medical care needs to be 'free' everywhere in the World. Otherwise, we have greedy insurance; for profit hospitals and pharmaceutical companies charging unreasonable prices in an effort to use the ill as a means for making a profit. Ignoring the premise of healthcare being a human right plays into the hands of the greedy and continues the myth that people need to pay unreasonable medical care prices. Insurance companies are not here to help anyone- they exist to make a profit and most of the time they distort coverage. Time to end this practice.

[observer90210]

And to conclude in the jungle of incertitudes between global bike laws and insurance policies before taking up any more space here....an exemple would be in the USA, where wearing a helmet on a bike varies from one state to another. In fact in 3 US states it is not required by law to wear a helmet.

 

Thus, the best approach would be always to check  in the land of visit what is the required legislation and what is the policy of your local accident insurance when abroad.

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, tingtongtourist said:

It is no crime to not have insurance.

Many do not like the fine print that cancels all and the other fact that many these companies have a long history of finding every reason to not pay up if you claim.

 

If you use the grey matter in your noggin a bit, you can adjust behaviour to avoid nearly all risk.

 

Just consider to look at the mayhem and maniacs on Thailands roads and a sensible tourist will gladly look for some other way of transport.

 

But no, many even have no licence or experience before, no idea of thai road rules, and even some get grogged up and yahoo about

and then wonder why it ends in tears

thhat's right, but if you don't take out travel insurance then you must accept the financial resposibility of what ever happens to you and not try and pass that responsibility onto other people

[observer90210]

3 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

if she had been responsible and not gone to the renter then this would not have happened. She started this by being totally irresponsible and going to the renter. You cannot take the blame for that away from her and pass it onto someone else

Not passing the responsability...I would rather use the term of sharing the responsability.

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, observer90210 said:

And to conclude in the jungle of incertitudes between global bike laws and insurance policies before taking up any more space here....an exemple would be in the USA, where wearing a helmet on a bike varies from one state to another. In fact in 3 US states it is not required by law to wear a helmet.

 

Thus, the best approach would be always to check  in the land of visit what is the required legislation and what is the policy of your local accident insurance when abroad.

True, always check to see what the local laws are and what your insurance coverage is and what is excluded

[observer90210]

1 minute ago, Russell17au said:

True, always check to see what the local laws are and what your insurance coverage is and what is excluded

Let me confess..I traded my tMax recently for a mp3...fell much safer with 3 wheels

[Thaidream]

All insurance is a scam and none of exists to help anyone.  Medical insurance exists solely to assure a huge profit for both the insurance company, the hospital and pharmaceutical company.  you have all been brainwashed into believing that insurance exits as a panacea for everything that happens. Governments need to provide free medical care- that is why they exist and that is why people pay taxes.  If people would reject the insurance scam- governments would need to adjust- like sending the bills back to the home country or establishing their own pool for reimbursement.

[Peterw42]

5 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Thailand invites mass tourism  and assumes a risk when it allows foreigners to enter their country.  While personal responsibility makes perfect sense- we must remember that medical care is a human right not a privilege that allows the provider to decide who to treat and not to treat.  As I have mentioned- Thailand can charge every visitor a small amount of money up front  to offset the risk.  Or Thailand, can send the medical bill to the country of origin. Once you take the profit out of medical care- things become much simpler and much fairer.

 

Countries like the UK and other European countries as well as Canada and Japan have universal medical care, Medical care needs to be 'free' everywhere in the World. Otherwise, we have greedy insurance; for profit hospitals and pharmaceutical companies charging unreasonable prices in an effort to use the ill as a means for making a profit. Ignoring the premise of healthcare being a human right plays into the hands of the greedy and continues the myth that people need to pay unreasonable medical care prices. Insurance companies are not here to help anyone- they exist to make a profit and most of the time they distort coverage. Time to end this practice.

Thailand has medical coverage for its own citizens and most countries like Canada Japan Europe etc wont treat visitors for free. Compulsory insurance for visitors could help but would still be voided in the case of this girl riding without a license.

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Thailand invites mass tourism  and assumes a risk when it allows foreigners to enter their country.  While personal responsibility makes perfect sense- we must remember that medical care is a human right not a privilege that allows the provider to decide who to treat and not to treat.  As I have mentioned- Thailand can charge every visitor a small amount of money up front  to offset the risk.  Or Thailand, can send the medical bill to the country of origin. Once you take the profit out of medical care- things become much simpler and much fairer.

 

Countries like the UK and other European countries as well as Canada and Japan have universal medical care, Medical care needs to be 'free' everywhere in the World. Otherwise, we have greedy insurance; for profit hospitals and pharmaceutical companies charging unreasonable prices in an effort to use the ill as a means for making a profit. Ignoring the premise of healthcare being a human right plays into the hands of the greedy and continues the myth that people need to pay unreasonable medical care prices. Insurance companies are not here to help anyone- they exist to make a profit and most of the time they distort coverage. Time to end this practice.

Universal health care does not end "for profit hospitals and pharmaceutical companies charging unreasonable prices in an effort to use the ill as a means for making a profit".

[Thaidream]

Universal coverage provides certain amounts for certain procedures and also tells pharmaceutical companies how much they will get for drugs. while it does not end for profit hospitals- it tells all hospitals,providers and pharma how much they can charge and if they don't comply they will eventually go out of business. I'll say it over and over again- Healthcare is a human right- no entity should be making a profit from healthcare- 

America's healthcare is based upon for profit situations and America has the highest healthcare cost in the World ad not necessarily the best. Everyone takes a piece of the pie and that is why Americans go broke or die from lack of healthcare. A horrid system and that is why Americans now are in favor of a single payer system.

Most countries who have universal healthcare actually provide non citizens and tourists access to their system at no cost and that is the way it should be. When you invite someone into your home (country) you assume responsibility.

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Most countries who have universal healthcare actually provide non citizens and tourists access to their system at no cost and that is the way it should be. When you invite someone into your home (country) you assume responsibility.

I think you may find a lot have reciprocal agreements, UK and Australia, Canada, otherwise people would travel to get free hip replacements.

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Universal coverage provides certain amounts for certain procedures and also tells pharmaceutical companies how much they will get for drugs. while it does not end for profit hospitals- it tells all hospitals,providers and pharma how much they can charge and if they don't comply they will eventually go out of business. I'll say it over and over again- Healthcare is a human right- no entity should be making a profit from healthcare- 

America's healthcare is based upon for profit situations and America has the highest healthcare cost in the World ad not necessarily the best. Everyone takes a piece of the pie and that is why Americans go broke or die from lack of healthcare. A horrid system and that is why Americans now are in favor of a single payer system.

Most countries who have universal healthcare actually provide non citizens and tourists access to their system at no cost and that is the way it should be. When you invite someone into your home (country) you assume responsibility.

No. There are negotiations, leading sometimes to high prices, sometimes low. Sometimes medicines are not covered so patients are out of luck.

Your idea of UHC is very simplistic.

 

Tourists access to healthcare without costs, which countries would that be?

[oldhippy]

QUESTION: Tourists access to healthcare without costs, which countries would that be?

 

Theoretically: none

Practically: Western Europe - because civilised countries put human rights before money.

An idea that we can agree upon, or not.

[stevenl]

39 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

QUESTION: Tourists access to healthcare without costs, which countries would that be?

 

Theoretically: none

Practically: Western Europe - because civilised countries put human rights before money.

An idea that we can agree upon, or not.

Theoretically and practically none.