Making a will to cover UK assets

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, orientalist said:

The way my lawyer recommended was to make the first will for "all countries except Thailand" and the second for Thailand.

 

 

 

I would like to see how that works if one of the other countries was, say,  China....

[orientalist]

Sure. He wasn't implying that a UK will was valid everywhere. In my case I only had significant assets in Thailand and the UK, so it worked for me, while providing some sort of backup in case I placed assets in a third country and died before having time to write an additional will.

Sent on the move with my mobile phone. Please excuse the brevity.

[AbeSurd]

On 11/16/2017 at 7:15 AM, 12DrinkMore said:

If the taxman reckons you were UK domiciled at the time of death, then all you worldwide assets fall under inheritance tax. Which would mean the executor of your estate has a huge headache. I suppose he could "ignore" assets outside the UK, but there is way to much connectivity between various authorities and banks nowadays.

 

This is a very interesting point I hadn't thought of before. Thanks.

[12DrinkMore]

4 hours ago, AbeSurd said:

This is a very interesting point I hadn't thought of before. Thanks.

 

I am currently burying my head in the sand over this.

 

There does not appear to be any way that domicile can be 100% determined before death. If the tax man can smell assets to be taxed he will be relentlessly on the trail, looking for reasons to include worldwide assets, with the principle "guilty until proven innocent".

 

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by 12DrinkMore

[topt]

1 hour ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

I am currently burying my head in the sand over this.

 

There does not appear to be any way that domicile can be 100% determined before death. If the tax man can smell assets to be taxed he will be relentlessly on the trail, looking for reasons to include worldwide assets, with the principle "guilty until proven innocent".

 

 

 

 

Do not disagree but in a couple of online articles it suggests that you can change it which would (hopefully) give added strength to your heir's arguments with HMRC.

General article here - https://www.blevinsfranks.com/News/BlevinsFranks/Article/inheritance-tax-and-domicile

However not surprisingly (vested interest?)

Quote

There are a number of ways in which your domicile status can be satisfactorily tested, but professional guidance is required. If you get it wrong, your heirs could receive an unexpected tax bill.
 

 

[topt]

On 16/11/2017 at 9:10 PM, JAS21 said:

I have a bank account with Santander in the Isle of Mann ... will a problem for the executors of my UK Will

Yes and no........I also have accounts in IOM and from what I read it appears your executor will have to go through a separate probate with the original will......

informationbooklet.pdf

[Jip99]

On 16/11/2017 at 9:10 PM, JAS21 said:

I have a bank account with Santander in the Isle of Mann ... will a problem for the executors of my UK Will

 

 

Advice elsewhere to make it a joint account, if possible, is sound.

[JAS21]

25 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Advice elsewhere to make it a joint account, if possible, is sound.

I have just realised that I have more problems ... my wife has a Santander Account ...just in her name ...she only has a Thai will! I'll hook the money out and put it into our joint UK Bank a/c. I though it was a good idea at the time ...but now realise that it wasn't. The interest is not worth the risk/hassel ...

 

I don't want to put my Santander a/c in joint names as what is in their will go into the Probate Account.

 

Out main UK Bank current and savings accounts are joint ...so she shouldn't have too much of a problem ...we have internet banking...

[Jip99]

24 minutes ago, JAS21 said:

I have just realised that I have more problems ... my wife has a Santander Account ...just in her name ...she only has a Thai will! I'll hook the money out and put it into our joint UK Bank a/c. I though it was a good idea at the time ...but now realise that it wasn't. The interest is not worth the risk/hassel ...

 

I don't want to put my Santander a/c in joint names as what is in their will go into the Probate Account.

 

Out main UK Bank current and savings accounts are joint ...so she shouldn't have too much of a problem ...we have internet banking...

 

 

The joint account balance will pass to your wife by succession...... it is outside the estate.

[JAS21]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

The joint account balance will pass to your wife by succession...... it is outside the estate.

Yes that is why everything in the UK is in joint names except what I am leaving to my offspring ... I have now moved the money in my wifes Santander account back into our joint UK bank a/c ...

[simoh1490]

I've had the discussion on domicile with various lawyers from three countries over the years and I've concluded it is too high risk to assume a claim of non-UK domicile will be accepted. I've therefore set up my financial affairs in such a way that the sum total of my global assets will always be under the IHT limit, the remainder is in joint names or similar.

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

I've had the discussion on domicile with various lawyers from three countries over the years and I've concluded it is too high risk to assume a claim of non-UK domicile will be accepted. I've therefore set up my financial affairs in such a way that the sum total of my global assets will always be under the IHT limit, the remainder is in joint names or similar.

 

 

I have adopted a lifestyle that will achieve achieve the same end result.

[Boyblue]

On 18/11/2017 at 6:08 AM, JAS21 said:

I have just realised that I have more problems ... my wife has a Santander Account ...just in her name ...she only has a Thai will! I'll hook the money out and put it into our joint UK Bank a/c. I though it was a good idea at the time ...but now realise that it wasn't. The interest is not worth the risk/hassel ...

 

I don't want to put my Santander a/c in joint names as what is in their will go into the Probate Account.

 

Out main UK Bank current and savings accounts are joint ...so she shouldn't have too much of a problem ...we have internet banking...

only 50% of what is in a joint account is used for the HMRC Probate forms, the other 50% is deemed to be the property of the survivor.... the Law requires you to notify the bank of the death of a account holder, taking money from an account by use of the internet without notifying is illegal, all you need to do is send a Death Certificate to the Banks "Bereavement Centre" and register the death. I have been dealing with Wills and Probate in the UK, Europe and Thailand for nearly 20 years. 

[Boyblue]

On 18/11/2017 at 8:37 AM, simoh1490 said:

I've had the discussion on domicile with various lawyers from three countries over the years and I've concluded it is too high risk to assume a claim of non-UK domicile will be accepted. I've therefore set up my financial affairs in such a way that the sum total of my global assets will always be under the IHT limit, the remainder is in joint names or similar.

the current limit for IHT is £325,000 for a single person and £650,000 for a couple, which passes to the survivior as long as the first to die doesnt use there£325,000 up. where you pay your IHT is up to you, obviously you need to pay for any IHT in the UK, but if say you have a property in Spain, you can choose to pay IHT on that asset in Spain and take it out of your UK IHT liability. NLS Shropshire Will & Trust Services....

[Boyblue]

On 17/11/2017 at 6:11 AM, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

I would like to see how that works if one of the other countries was, say,  China....

it won't work, you need a Will wherever you have an "Immovable asset". so for a property in England, Thailand, Spain and Turkey, you would need three Wills, UK would cover the UK and Spain (currently pre Brexit) one for Thailand and one for Turkey as it is not an EU member, trust me i know, I am  UK and Thailand Will writer, with clients in all these countries, and i have had Probate granted in all of these countries, and also many more, Poland, Jersey, Scotland, The Irish Republic to name a few..... NLS Shropshire Will & Trust Services..

[Boyblue]

On 16/11/2017 at 8:20 AM, Lannathaijohn said:

With regard to UK Inheritance Tax, it is worth noting that inheritances are exempt from tax if less than £325,000 or if left to your husband or wife as applicable.

My advice in all cases is to have cross referenced Wills (I now have 1 in each of Thailand, England & Wales and Dubai ) prepared and copies kept with your lawyers.

 

 

there is no IHT between husband and wife, the problem arises on second death, if no gifts on first death the survivor will have the two Nil Rate Bands, which is £650,000 (currently) and good advice to have the three wills. 

[Boyblue]

On 16/11/2017 at 10:10 AM, Baerboxer said:

 

Your lawyers will advise you but my understanding is the inheritance laws in the Channel Islands have some marked differences to the Law of England & Wales. Around the granting of probate for one.

 

You might want to consider making accounts there joint which would ease things (assuming you want to leave it to your spouse). 

 

To the OP -

 

all the advise I've taken here and in the UK recommends two separate wills. One for each country. That means two lawyers, and two executors. Again the advice I've had suggests a Thai national or fluent Thai speaker at least is better for the Thai will executor.  Inheritance laws are quite different here to the UK so it is much safer to make those wills rather than die intestate and hope it goes where you want!

not necessarily, I write Wills, in the UK and Thailand, you also don't need to use a Solicitor as an Executor, this can be done by a friend or relation (that you trust) they can apply for Probate in the UK, your Thailand Executor then only needs to use a local Solicitor to apply for a court order to name your Executor as "The Administrator" of your Estate as per your Thai Will. NLS Shropshire Will & Trust Services....

[JAS21]

21 hours ago, Boyblue said:

only 50% of what is in a joint account is used for the HMRC Probate forms, the other 50% is deemed to be the property of the survivor.... the Law requires you to notify the bank of the death of a account holder, taking money from an account by use of the internet without notifying is illegal, all you need to do is send a Death Certificate to the Banks "Bereavement Centre" and register the death. I have been dealing with Wills and Probate in the UK, Europe and Thailand for nearly 20 years. 

If I understand correctly you said...

Half of what is in our joint bank accounts has to be entered on the probate form. However as I provide all the income to those accounts I read that ... So, if the deceased provided all the money, the whole amount will be subject to inheritance tax on his death.

 

A death cert is just required to be send to the bank and then the account can be operated by the survivor ... 

 

If the Thai Will and the UK will do not mention each other ... is that a problem? 

 

[Jip99]

22 hours ago, Boyblue said:

only 50% of what is in a joint account is used for the HMRC Probate forms, the other 50% is deemed to be the property of the survivor.... the Law requires you to notify the bank of the death of a account holder, taking money from an account by use of the internet without notifying is illegal, all you need to do is send a Death Certificate to the Banks "Bereavement Centre" and register the death. I have been dealing with Wills and Probate in the UK, Europe and Thailand for nearly 20 years. 

 

 

Can I ask what laws are broken in the case of a surviving  joint account holder moving funds (say via internet) before  advising a bank of the death.

[simoh1490]

On 26/11/2017 at 12:38 PM, Boyblue said:

the current limit for IHT is £325,000 for a single person and £650,000 for a couple, which passes to the survivior as long as the first to die doesnt use there£325,000 up. where you pay your IHT is up to you, obviously you need to pay for any IHT in the UK, but if say you have a property in Spain, you can choose to pay IHT on that asset in Spain and take it out of your UK IHT liability. NLS Shropshire Will & Trust Services....

Oh, OK then, I ''ll pay IHT on my Thai house in Thailand....oh wait, Thailand doesn't have IHT!

[NACHALUAY]

just like to say  a big thank you to everyone who replied. i only just found the replies to my topic. I was looking elsewhere. Not had time to read everything yet but seems like some good advice. Thanks again