UK passport for Thai-UK baby

[davejonesbkk]

Im just looking at the docs required for getting a passport for our newborn son and want to confirm a few things:

 

Parents birth certificates - do these need to be the originals or are copies ok? Obviously mine is in the UK so Im hoping I can have a scan emailed to me.

 

Mothers birth certificate - so my wife says that birth certificates are not kept once I child has grown as they have national ID cards, is this true? I just called the UK passport office in Belfast and they said that a signed letter would be needed to state that or something?

 

Also, my birth certificate doesnt have the same name due to my parents getting divorced later, the UK office said I need to get a 'statutory declaration' which is then signed by a solicitor, has anyone here ever had to do this?

 

Is a tabian baan document needed? We rent a house outside Bangkok so dont have that anyway.

 

Color copies of every page in mine and my wife's passports - do they really need every page including the empty ones?

 

Is there anything else Im missing here?

 

Edit: Also, do translations of things like marriage certificates need to be approved by someone? I read something about recognised translation services on another thread.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by davejonesbkk

[Pilotman]

You will need a DNA test certificate, to prove your parentage!  Dont underestimate the dfifficulties with this process.  You may well need professional advice and support from an immigation lawyer in the UK. 

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Pilotman said:

You will need a DNA test certificate, to prove your parentage! 

Rubbish!

 

If you are named as the father on your child's birth certificate, that is all the evidence of parentage needed.

[lemonjelly]

Your birth certificate doesn’t have same name.... parents divorced..... ?

Are you saying that you need your parents birth certificates?

I thought your birth certificate is needed, not theirs......

or your name on your passport is different to that on your birth certificate?

 

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[7by7]

2 hours ago, davejonesbkk said:

Parents birth certificates - do these need to be the originals or are copies ok? Obviously mine is in the UK so Im hoping I can have a scan emailed to me.

Originals, as copies can be altered. Remember it's your long form birth certificate you need.

 

2 hours ago, davejonesbkk said:

Color copies of every page in mine and my wife's passports - do they really need every page including the empty ones?

Yes, empty ones too, to show that they are empty.

 

See the following, which combined with the advice you have already received from HMPO, should answer your questions:-

 

Applying for a passport from outside the UK: application form

 

Applying for a passport from outside the UK: how to fill in the application form

Applying for a passport from outside the UK: supporting documents (group 2)

 

Use the overseas tool to find the specific advice about how to apply from Thailand.

Edited November 13, 2017 by 7by7

[brewsterbudgen]

If the mother doesn't have her birth certificate it shouldn't stop the passport being issued, as long as she has other identification. My wife is Laotian and never had a birth certificate but our son's passport was issued without any problems.

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[davejonesbkk]

13 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

If the mother doesn't have her birth certificate it shouldn't stop the passport being issued, as long as she has other identification. My wife is Laotian and never had a birth certificate but our son's passport was issued without any problems.

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Thanks, she has a Thai passport

[davejonesbkk]

14 hours ago, lemonjelly said:

Your birth certificate doesn’t have same name.... parents divorced..... ?

Are you saying that you need your parents birth certificates?

I thought your birth certificate is needed, not theirs......

or your name on your passport is different to that on your birth certificate?

 

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Its ok I was confused, I thought I needed my parents birth certs to prove my own nationality too.

[brewsterbudgen]

14 minutes ago, davejonesbkk said:

 

Thanks, she has a Thai passport

I realise that, but I thought you'd said she doesn't have her birth certificate.

 

There is no need to supply your parents' birth certificates unless there is some question about your British citizenship.  The application form makes it clear when you need to provide them.  But you will need the long-form version of your own birth certificate.

[Mattd]

2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

But you will need the long-form version of your own birth certificate.

This will have your parents name on it and is why it is needed.

 

17 hours ago, davejonesbkk said:

Mothers birth certificate - so my wife says that birth certificates are not kept once I child has grown as they have national ID cards, is this true?

Absolutely not true, sounds like she has lost it, she can get a new one from the district office where she was born.

[MrPatrickThai]

On 11/13/2017 at 4:47 PM, Pilotman said:

You will need a DNA test certificate, to prove your parentage!  Dont underestimate the dfifficulties with this process.  You may well need professional advice and support from an immigation lawyer in the UK. 

I never but this was over 10 years ago.

[Pilotman]

On 13/11/2017 at 7:13 PM, 7by7 said:

Rubbish!

 

If you are named as the father on your child's birth certificate, that is all the evidence of parentage needed.

You are wrong, as he will find out in due course.   

[brewsterbudgen]

You are wrong, as he will find out in due course.   

I don't see why. All I needed for my son's passport was the translated Thai birth certificate and my birth certificate, plus my girlfriend's ID. The passport was issued within 3 weeks.

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[bobrussell]

There is no requirement for a DNA test as he will actually find out. 

They can be used in support of an application or to appeal a decision where the Passport Office does not believe an application. 

It is true that the British Nationality (Proof of Paternity) (Amendment) Regulations 2015 has introduced the word 'natural' before the word father therefore a DNA test may be required at an approved testing centre.

A birth certificate can be used to help establish paternity.

Quite a nasty bit of legislation really and only applies after 10th September 2015.

Probably introduced to stop blatant abuse of the system but do they refuse settlement for a child member of a family when other siblings are automatically exempt on grounds of parentage?

 

DNA test not required.

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by bobrussell

[KhaoNiaw]

1 hour ago, Pilotman said:

You are wrong, as he will find out in due course.   

Not true. Been there, done that.

[blackcab]

10 hours ago, Pilotman said:

You are wrong, as he will find out in due course.   

 

Are you British, have you had a child born in Thailand, and have you successfully applied for a UK passport for your child while in Thailand?

 

I have. I didn't have to supply a DNA test certificate; the process wasn't difficult and I certainly didn't need professional advice from an immigration lawyer in the UK.

 

Your post is completely incorrect and not based on fact or reality.

[MaeJoMTB]

10 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I don't see why. All I needed for my son's passport was the translated Thai birth certificate and my birth certificate, plus my girlfriend's ID. The passport was issued within 3 weeks.

Same for my kid (but that was 6 years back).

I got him a British birth (registered overseas) certificate at the same time.

 

Slightly off topic,

Only problem was the British Embassy in Bangkok who processed the paperwork

Phone call from lady, "I've spelled his Christian name wrong and already sent off for the passport, what do I do?"

Me, "Spell his Christian name wrong on the Birth certificate too"

Sorted, but he now has a unique spelling of a common English name ............

[Pilotman]

19 hours ago, bobrussell said:

There is no requirement for a DNA test as he will actually find out. 

They can be used in support of an application or to appeal a decision where the Passport Office does not believe an application. 

It is true that the British Nationality (Proof of Paternity) (Amendment) Regulations 2015 has introduced the word 'natural' before the word father therefore a DNA test may be required at an approved testing centre.

A birth certificate can be used to help establish paternity.

Quite a nasty bit of legislation really and only applies after 10th September 2015.

Probably introduced to stop blatant abuse of the system but do they refuse settlement for a child member of a family when other siblings are automatically exempt on grounds of parentage?

 

DNA test not required.

 

That has not been my families experience over the last 24 months.  The authorities are finding any which way to stop British Citizenship spreading.  My son has been caught up in this and despite all that is on the OPs list,  and an independent DNA test, they are still refusing to accept the application and have it on hold.  There was a case recently of a serving Serviceman having his babies application refused because he was out of time, whatever that means to the idiots. ,   I hope that the OP does not experience that problem, I really do, but best be prepared. 

[bobrussell]

A child either is a British citizen or it is not. This is a matter of biology and law.

What may complicate matters is whether there are reasons why the application may be doubted.

If you have proof through a DNA test carried out by an approved laboratory then the delay is probably administrative.

 

Not sure about the case of the serviceman as not heard about it but again the child is either a British citizen or is not. A few situations are discretionary.

 

[brewsterbudgen]

That has not been my families experience over the last 24 months.  The authorities are finding any which way to stop British Citizenship spreading.  My son has been caught up in this and despite all that is on the OPs list,  and an independent DNA test, they are still refusing to accept the application and have it on hold.  There was a case recently of a serving Serviceman having his babies application refused because he was out of time, whatever that means to the idiots. ,   I hope that the OP does not experience that problem, I really do, but best be prepared. 

What is the reason for not issuing him a UK passport?

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[7by7]

1 hour ago, Pilotman said:

That has not been my families experience over the last 24 months.

As shown by posts here, your experience is not the norm.

32 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

What is the reason for not issuing him a UK passport?

A good question, which I hope he answers.

Originally British fathers could not pass their British nationality onto their children born abroad if they were not married to the mother.

 

This was changed by The British Nationality (Proof of Paternity) Regulations 2006, which still applies to births registered between 1st July 2006 and 9th September 2015.

Quote

2. The following requirements are prescribed as to proof of paternity for the purposes of section 50(9A)( c ) of the British Nationality Act 1981—

(a) the person must be named as the father of the child in a birth certificate issued within one year of the date of the child’s birth; or

(b) the person must satisfy the Secretary of State that he is the father of the child.

3. The Secretary of State may determine whether a person is the father of a child for the purpose of regulation 2( b ), and for this purpose the Secretary of State may have regard to any evidence which he considers to be relevant, including, but not limited to—

( a ) DNA test reports; and

( b ) court orders.

Notice it says 'or' not 'and.' If 2( a ) is satisfied then 2( b ) is irrelevant, if 2( b ) is irrelevant then so is 3!

 

For births registered on or after10th September 2015 The British Nationality (Proof of Paternity) Regulations 2015 apply.

Quote

3. For regulation 2 substitute—
“2. For the purposes of section 50(9A)( c ) of the British Nationality Act 1981, the prescribed requirement as to proof of paternity is that the person must satisfy the Secretary of State that he is the natural father of the child.”.
4. In regulation 3—

( a ) in the opening words—

(i) before “father”, insert “natural”;

(ii) for “regulation 2( b )” substitute “regulation 2”;

( b ) in sub-paragraph ( a ), omit “and”;

( c ) at the end of sub-paragraph ( b ), insert— “; and ( c ) birth certificates.”.  

Note that these are all evidence which may be required, not evidence which must be supplied. Unless there are reasons to doubt it's authenticity or it was issued more than 12 months after the birth, the birth certificate alone is usually sufficient.

 

None of the above applies if the British father is married to the foreign mother, where being named on the birth certificate, issued within 12 months of the birth, is still sufficient; as the experiences posted above show.

 

That is my understanding; but if anyone has definitive evidence that I have misunderstood the regulations please post it. I am always ready and willing to learn.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Pilotman said:

There was a case recently of a serving Serviceman having his babies application refused because he was out of time, whatever that means to the idiots.

Do you have a link to this? Like bobrussell, I have never head of it

 

If true, there must be more to it than your simple statement; if one is born British then one is always British!

 

There is no time limit on, or maximum age when, a British citizen has to apply for a first British passport.

 

[Pilotman]

12 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Do you have a link to this? Like bobrussell, I have never head of it

 

If true, there must be more to it than your simple statement; if one is born British then one is always British!

 

There is no time limit on, or maximum age when, a British citizen has to apply for a first British passport.

 

I can only pass on what has been our experience.  My son's daughter was born in the Philippines  2 years ago, the mother is Philippine and they have been living together for 6 years.  he is of course a British Citizen.  He went to the Embassy to register the birth and they were adamant that he needed an independent DNA test to prove paternity, despite his name being on the Phills Birth Certificate.  Despite getting that evidence,  they would not register the child as British. stating that they needed further evidence, but not as yet stipulating what that is to be.   That is  still the situation and the authorities are just sitting on the application.  We now have lawyers in on it and its costing a bomb.  There is as yet no sign of movement.  It can be pain sailing I guess, but that is not what we are seeing.  I am not an authority ion the regs, its how they are being applied in our case.  For warned is forearmed is all that I am saying.  

[Pilotman]

14 hours ago, bobrussell said:

A child either is a British citizen or it is not. This is a matter of biology and law.

What may complicate matters is whether there are reasons why the application may be doubted.

If you have proof through a DNA test carried out by an approved laboratory then the delay is probably administrative.

 

Not sure about the case of the serviceman as not heard about it but again the child is either a British citizen or is not. A few situations are discretionary.

 

Oh that it were that easy! 

[brewsterbudgen]

I can only pass on what has been our experience.  My son's daughter was born in the Philippines  2 years ago, the mother is Philippine and they have been living together for 6 years.  he is of course a British Citizen.  He went to the Embassy to register the birth and they were adamant that he needed an independent DNA test to prove paternity, despite his name being on the Phills Birth Certificate.  Despite getting that evidence,  they would not register the child as British. stating that they needed further evidence, but not as yet stipulating what that is to be.   That is  still the situation and the authorities are just sitting on the application.  We now have lawyers in on it and its costing a bomb.  There is as yet no sign of movement.  It can be pain sailing I guess, but that is not what we are seeing.  I am not an authority ion the regs, its how they are being applied in our case.  For warned is forearmed is all that I am saying.  

Why not just apply for a UK passport? That will establish his citizenship and has nothing to do with the Embassy in the Philippines - it's done in Liverpool.

Perhaps the issue is with your son's citizenship as he may be British by descent which would mean he cannot pass on his citizenship to his child if they are born overseas

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[davejonesbkk]

Thanks for the info guys, so to confirm:

 

I must have my original UK birth certificate

Wife doesnt need her Thai birth certificate as can use her Thai passport and ID card

Marriage certificate + translation

Proof of address

Full color copies of everything

Photos of the kid

Photos counter signed

 

last  question:

 

Can I go in alone on the date or does our son have to come too?

 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

Your son doesn't have to go. In fact, neither do you, if you use an agent.

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[davejonesbkk]

2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Your son doesn't have to go. In fact, neither do you, if you use an agent.

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OK thanks, what do agents cost for things like this? Are there any problems with using them?

[brewsterbudgen]

OK thanks, what do agents cost for things like this? Are there any problems with using them?

Not cheap. I used this Forum's sponsor and paid 10k. In retrospect, I could have done it myself but as there was some question about my citizenship, I wanted professional advice.

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[Mattd]

16 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Originally British fathers could not pass their British nationality onto their children born abroad if they were not married to the mother.

 

Actually, this is not 100% correct, my first son was born on 17th May 1999 here in Thailand and I was not married to his Mother at the time of his birth (little git came 3 weeks early), we married on 29th June 1999.

I applied for a British passport for him and we had to go to the British Embassy along with the son, both of us were interviewed and each of us had to make an oath that the child was mine, the application was then sent to the home office in London for review and approval, passport and birth certificate were issued about 8 weeks later, can't remember the total cost, but it was not cheap.

Second son born in July 2002 was a breeze!